Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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halides1 said:
I am under the impression that inexperienced knife users get cut when their hand slips forward onto the blade. Others may know more.
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You're right, but it depends on the type of knife of course. if a knife has a substantial front bolster, then it's hard for the hand to slip onto the blade during a stabbing action. But if there's little or no bolster, it's not unusual for people unfamiliar with stabbing to slide the finger(s) closest to the blade (thumb and index finger if the knife is held in an underhand grip, little finger if held in an overhand grip) over the hilt area and along the blade when the knife encounters resistance - typically by hitting a bone or tendon.

Funnily enough, the kitchen knife that Knox is alleged to have used as her murder weapon of choice has no real hilt, allowing the hand to easily slide down onto the blade.
 
RandyN said:
I think it one of those straw man...men issues. Since there is no mixed blood proven anywhere, anytime , and anyhow.
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I'm interested in the Mignini quote mostly as an illustration of how pro-guilt and pro-innocence can look at the same document and both come away finding it reinforces their pre-existing beliefs. My pre-existing belief is that a lot of the evidence supports multiple readings, so I went away happy too.
 
halides1 said:
Off the cuff, I think it was the fact that the prosecution is appealing the sentence. Without an appeal, I am under the impression that a separate prosecutor would have handled it.
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I think that prosecutors appeal the sentence in the appeal trial fairly regularly in Italy, but it's still extremely unusual for the lead prosecutor from the initial trial to be involved in the appeal.

I was under the impression that Mignini had injected himself into the appeals process, on the basis that this was a "complex case" that required his knowledge and input(!). But others seem to think that it was Hellmann who had made this unusual ruling unilaterally, with an almost-reluctant Mignini agreeing to do the job.
 
RandyN said:
Dont answer LJ...I suspect a set up here...
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Oh for craps sake!! What kind of diabolical plan do you think I'm working? Do you think LJ's views are inconsistent or wrong in some way and you are trying to protect him? Do you think I am so cunning I will trick some kind of crucial victory from you guys? Worst case scenario is I twist somebodies words, they say that that isn't what they meant and a few smart assed posts get exchanged.

What in the heck is the point of getting so cautious? If the discussion is so important that it must be protected from somebody asking the wrong question, you should have it in private.
 
Diocletus said:
I did an experiment last night. I ran around on our lawn, playing lacrosse with my daughter. Observations:

1. If I simply walked/ran over a particular area of grass, I did not leave indents or footprints. If you looked behind me, you could not tell where I had stepped.

2. If I repeatedly walked/ran over an area and maybe did some twists or pivots, the grass in that spot was somewhat trampled.

3. When I woke up this morning, and looked at the lawn, you could not see any disturbance, including in the areas that had been "trampled" the night before.
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Yes , but who plays lacrosse?
 
shuttlt said:
Oh for craps sake!! What kind of diabolical plan do you think I'm working? Do you think LJ's views are inconsistent or wrong in some way and you are trying to protect him? Do you think I am so cunning I will trick some kind of crucial victory from you guys? Worst case scenario is I twist somebodies words, they say that that isn't what they meant and a few smart assed posts get exchanged.

What in the heck is the point of getting so cautious. If the discussion is so important that it must be protected from somebody asking the wrong question, you should have it in private.
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I am hoping that randy's interjection was somewhat tongue in cheek (my fabled mindreading skills!). But regardless, I'm willing to engage in debate with anyone who wants to engage, who has a point of view to debate, and who is prepared to engage in a fair and decent debate. and i certainly don't take part in any form of "group strategising" - either publicly or via private messages. I don't represent anyone's views: I have my own totally disinterested opinions on this case. And I am of the view that most other posters here who share my opinion on the verdicts reached in the first trial are very similar to me in their affiliations (or lack of) and "tactics" (or lack of).
 
not sure where you stand

shuttlt said:
We know where we both stand on this and I don't think we disagree on so much.
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Actually, I don't know where you stand (perhaps I have forgotten). For example, did you mean that it is hard to believe that we don't have a clear answer to the question after all of this time or something else?
 
LondonJohn said:
You're right, but it depends on the type of knife of course. if a knife has a substantial front bolster, then it's hard for the hand to slip onto the blade during a stabbing action. But if there's little or no bolster, it's not unusual for people unfamiliar with stabbing to slide the finger(s) closest to the blade (thumb and index finger if the knife is held in an underhand grip, little finger if held in an overhand grip) over the hilt area and along the blade when the knife encounters resistance - typically by hitting a bone or tendon.

Funnily enough, the kitchen knife that Knox is alleged to have used as her murder weapon of choice has no real hilt, allowing the hand to easily slide down onto the blade.
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The knife looks like any other kitchen knife and from photos appears to have a pretty good hilt to keep the hand from sliding down on the blade.
 
RandyN said:
Yes , but who plays lacrosse?
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They play it at Duke University I believe: I understand that they have a very robust and energetic men's lacrosse team :)

Funnily enough, here in the UK I don't think lacrosse is played by a single boys' school. It's a widely-played sport among independent fee-paying girls' schools though. My school played an arcane game called Eton fives, which involves hitting a small hard (but bouncy) ball with a padded glove against the walls of what looks a bit like a squash court, but with a step half way down and an irregular buttress known as the "pepper" half way down the left wall. I was in the school team :D
 
Kaosium said:
What I wonder is why Gen. Garafano, the man the Sun called 'Italy's CSI' dude, doesn't understand the process for proving for blood. It's actually pretty simple and logical. Luminol is the most sensitive detector of blood there is, it's also easy to use--just spray it down and turn out the lights. It glows in the dark where there might be blood, very cool!

Then find the spots that light up and test them with TMB, after all there's about 250 items that can be typically found in households that will light up and not be blood, including some that will display the same chemiluminescence pattern as undiluted blood. The TMB test is easy and can be done on-scene, kinda like a pregnancy test; they don't want to waste the lab tech's time, and this process should eliminate about half of all hits according to Dr. Gino in Massei. Then the lab looks at it under the scope and confirms it's human blood, and DNA tests are done to identify it. That's how you prove for blood.

What I don't quite understand is how a forensics expert could review a team that sprayed down the luminol, saw that the footprints tested negative for TMB, but the lab tried to hide those results in court, never bothered with the confirmatory test or successfully hid those results, and that all but one or so of the footprints tested negative for Meredith's DNA. Being as there were no control tests reported that means the one that did show Meredith's DNA might have been part of the floor beneath it and not the footprint.

If I had a nasty suspicious mind I'd think ILE was trying to pretend those footprints actually were blood when they knew they couldn't prove it, and that the footprints probably weren't related to the murder. Why is it that Gen Garofano didn't notice this? I couldn't help but note that his name came up as having assisted Mignini in the Monster of Florence case. Naturally most sane people were trying to oppose the double body-swap nonsense, but not Garofano...

Incidentally, General Garofano has a unique theory of the murder, he had it published in the Sun early last fall. There's only one other place I've heard that theory echoed, and that's in articles written by John Kercher for the Mail, Mirror and Times.

I wonder if Garofano told him a 'load of crap?'
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The TMB test was done by Steffanoni...I think it convinced her enough that she realized there was no point in looking under a microscope...

Even though later on the little weasel tried to assert that these were from blood based on the glow...which is somewhat possible but then why not do the tests? Lazy? Maybe. Sneaky? Maybe.

Garofano is interesting...just when you think he may actually be making a scientifically astute point he veers off into la la land. Maybe he felt pressure to write a good book...make a good story.
 
halides1 said:
I am under the impression that inexperienced knife users get cut when their hand slips forward onto the blade. Others may know more.
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Well, that certainly would explain why Rafaele had no cuts on his hand. He certainly wasn't inexperienced with knives. Oh, and to continue with the fashion statements. He e ven matched the knives to his outfits..........
 
Alt+F4 said:
How was he "skated through the Court system"? It's my understanding that his sentence reduction was due to taking a fast track trial. AK and RS had the same option, they choose not to take it.

Well actually no prosecutor appealed his conviction further like Mignini is doing against AK,RS. So one might say he skated a bit.
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least culpable

capealadin said:
Well, that certainly would explain why Rafaele had no cuts on his hand. He certainly wasn't inexperienced with knives. Oh, and to continue with the fashion statements. He e ven matched the knives to his outfits..........
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capealadin,

What evidence do you have that Raffaele used, as opposed to collected, knives? Elsewhere you implied that Rudi was the least culpable of the three. Why did you say that?
 
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christianahannah said:
The knife looks like any other kitchen knife and from photos appears to have a pretty good hilt to keep the hand from sliding down on the blade.
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the knife looks like what it is: a cheap kitchen knife with a moulded plastic handle and a flat blade. The "hilt" - such as it is - is only a small rounded expansion in the moulded handle: I would judge that a hand would easily slide over that and onto the blade if an inexperienced person used the knife to stab someone and hit bone or tendon.

knife 1.jpg

knife 2.jpg
 
LondonJohn said:
I think that prosecutors appeal the sentence in the appeal trial fairly regularly in Italy, but it's still extremely unusual for the lead prosecutor from the initial trial to be involved in the appeal.

I was under the impression that Mignini had injected himself into the appeals process, on the basis that this was a "complex case" that required his knowledge and input(!). But others seem to think that it was Hellmann who had made this unusual ruling unilaterally, with an almost-reluctant Mignini agreeing to do the job.
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I think he could be asked to help as long as he was not the head prosecutor. Comodi is also helping but I am not certain if she was asked or this was expected.
 
LondonJohn said:
the knife looks like what it is: a cheap kitchen knife with a moulded plastic handle and a flat blade. The "hilt" - such as it is - is only a small rounded expansion in the moulded handle: I would judge that a hand would easily slide over that and onto the blade if an inexperienced person used the knife to stab someone and hit bone or tendon.

View attachment 22334

View attachment 22335
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This photo shows a bit more of the handle - the jutted out part on the bottom looks substantial enough to keep a hand or fingers from sliding onto the blade.

http://perugiamurderfile.org/gallery/image_page.php?album_id=21&image_id=222
 
christianahannah said:
I am not certain how long Mignini and Amanda would have been together on November 2 or 3. According to Amanda's appeal she was at the Questura on November 2 from 15:30 till 3:00 the next morning (add more time to arrive there, not sure how far it is from the cottage to the station). The next day she was back at the Questera at 14:45 for additional questioning until approximately 22:00.

I am not sure if she was or was not at the cottage on the 3rd and if so from what time and I do not know the time Mignini was there.
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__________________________

Christianahannah,

Amanda was at the cottage---in the presence of police--- on November 2nd, 3rd, and 4th. She discusses her November 3rd visit to the cottage in her email written the next day. She discusses her November 4th visit to the cottage in her trial testimony. The famous photograph of her surrounded by cops (posted upstream) was taken by a news service photographer on November 3rd.



Has Mignini confused Amanda with someone else..............

knox%20e%20sollecito-thumb.jpg
?

///
 
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