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General Israel/Palestine discussion thread

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Sword_Of_Truth said:
He chose to make his anti-semitism an issue.
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FYI:

This thread is for general discussion relating to Israel and Palestine. While it is not intended to encompass all Israel/Palestine discussion, and other threads may be started in relation to specific events in the region, please limit general political discussion about Israel and Palestine to this thread. Thank you for your anticipated cooperation.
 
Thunder said:
FYI:

This thread is for general discussion relating to Israel and Palestine.
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Did you manage to completely miss his current sig?

Whether criticism of Israels handling of the Palestinians is motivated by anti-semitism is a natural part of the Israel-Palestine discussion.

If you don't like it... tough.
 
Thunder said:
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Foreig...-t-back-down-on-Israel-Palestine-border-issue

I am proud to have a President who has the guts to tell the Israelis that the basis for the final Israel/Palestine border will be the 1967 line...with mutually-agreed upon land swaps.

I am proud to have a President who has the guts to tell the Palestinians that they will not get back 100% of the West Bank...or even 100% of East Jerusalem or the Old City.
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I'd be proud too if my Presiden actually stood by his ethics. Instead he's apparently soon addressed a pro-Israel lobby to ensure he and America is still not going to ever, ever hurt any Israeli movement; no matter if it objects to US intentions. Bibi: "1967 lines are indefensible; Obama you are wrong, America is wrong!". Obama: "Well, uh, I want to be reelected, so uh...differences in friends and something..."

How can you be proud to have a President who's given the same things to Israel and Palestine as all previous Presidents have?

Has Obama enforced a Camp David summit? Has he threatened even a 0.1% decease in Israel funding?

I'd be proud to have a President who called Israel as it is--just another country; just deserving of support or sanctions based on how they act.

ETA: Obama is Bush's third term, or even worse. I'm not proud of him at all and am astonished that you would be.
 
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Dragoonster said:
Has Obama enforced a Camp David summit? Has he threatened even a 0.1% decease in Israel funding?

I'd be proud to have a President who called Israel as it is--just another country; just deserving of support or sanctions based on how they act.

ETA: Obama is Bush's third term, or even worse. I'm not proud of him at all and am astonished that you would be.
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I think that what you are suggesting is political suicide.
 
Doctor Evil said:
Lets dispense with the personal one first. Bibi feels that Obama has essentially ambushed him by introducing an important element while he is on the way to Washington. He sees this as an attempt to dictate major concessions without getting anything in return. Some journalists here have reported that Bibi's people have tried to get Obama to change this bit, or to add a paragraph saying that the Palestinian refugees will not return into Israel, but the administration refused. Now, I do not really care if Bibi is personally insulted or not, but he has a point regarding the second reason.
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This is an excellent example of the fraud of US mediation which shows it is not mediation at all. Without comment, as no comment is needed, Netanyahu's people tried to get a change. Excuse but how did one side only get to see the draft and the opportunity to try to change it. How about the same statement but Erekat's people instead. That would be headline news.
 
JJM 777 said:
Crossing the fenced border around Israel is not the wisest thing to do, the chances are high that you are blown up before you are shot. A suicidal protest I say, but they got the attention they wanted.
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True. Israel has always had a policy of murdering property owners who have tried to cease being absent to prevent their property from being stolen under color of law.
 
mortimer said:
I think Obama has set the peace process back considerably. He pissed off Israel with talk of returning to the 1967 borders, and pissed off the Palestinians by not mentioning settlement freezes or right of return issues. Good luck getting them negotiating now...
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So they do not negotiate. What will be different? Israel has already refused to cease criminal settlement activity. Were you expecting otherwise?
 
Question: If there were a peace agreement based on the 1967 borders with mutually agreed land swaps, what land would Israel give up and what land would Palestine give up? Is there a hypothetical map?

(Already it strains my imagination to think that there is a swap that would be acceptable to both sides.)
 
Doctor Evil touched up on the core issues with Obama's speech here. No idea why this post is being glossed over as it states quite clearly how the Obama administration's ME policy is different from its predecessors.
 
Puppycow said:
Question: If there were a peace agreement based on the 1967 borders with mutually agreed land swaps, what land would Israel give up and what land would Palestine give up? Is there a hypothetical map?
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'Palestine Papers' touch up on some of the specifics behind the land swaps and what major disagreements there are, ie Ariel and Har homa.
 
mortimer said:
I think Obama has set the peace process back considerably. He pissed off Israel with talk of returning to the 1967 borders, and pissed off the Palestinians by not mentioning settlement freezes or right of return issues. Good luck getting them negotiating now...
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There is no peace process to set back.
There has been no real peace process since the Clinton administration.
I agree that Obama made a mistake though, by getting involved.
 
Puppycow said:
Question: If there were a peace agreement based on the 1967 borders with mutually agreed land swaps, what land would Israel give up and what land would Palestine give up? Is there a hypothetical map?

(Already it strains my imagination to think that there is a swap that would be acceptable to both sides.)
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There are plenty of suggested maps. You can find some older ones in Dennis Ross' book. These are based on the failed Camp David talks, though no maps were actually presented there.

As for land swaps, Israel will want to keep several areas which have large settler population. Israel can offer land in various places. One option is some land bordering the Gaza strip. Another is some land at the southern part of the west bank. Other options can be found in papers describing the failed talks between Olmert and Abbas where various ideas where raised.

It is not the land question which would fail the peace talks.
 
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