"Any technology sufficiently advanced would be indistinguishable from Magic"

[Rasmus]

Technology is measurable, quantifiable and testable. Magic isn't.

First, magic is a total fiction. So requiring it to obey laws that make it easier to force it into your favored position is a bit a iffy matter, no?

You were saying?

 

[ConspicuousCarl]

So, his statement is:

Any technology sufficiently advanced so as to be indistinguishable from magic would be indistinguishable from magic.

[....]

Thus, the only right answer is that Clarke's statement is correct. It is, however, correct because it is a tautology and, therefore, meaningless.

This is what I was scrolling through the posts looking for. It's self-confirming.

Of course I agree with the idea behind it as an observation about the tendency for the misunderstood to look like magic, even when we know it is not because we made it. But Clarke got a little carried away with a desire to phrase it in a particular style, and it fails as a "law".

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

You were saying?

If you see a contradiction there, please trot it out.

 

[Egg]

Technology is measurable, quantifiable and testable. Magic isn't.

Surely that would depend on how you're defining "magic"? Presumably magic (if it existed) would do something that could be measured and tested.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Surely that would depend on how you're defining "magic"? Presumably magic (if it existed) would do something that could be measured and tested.

If you're asking Shirley...

Why do you presume that?

 

[Egg]

If you're asking Shirley...

I think that gag works better in a spoken context

Why do you presume that?

Primarily based on how magic is depicted in the fiction I've come across. I'm not really clear on what the concept of magic that you're referring to is. Can you give some kind of example?

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I think that gag works better in a spoken context

Primarily based on how magic is depicted in the fiction I've come across. I'm not really clear on what the concept of magic that you're referring to is. Can you give some kind of example?

I've said magic is a fiction here. What else do you require?

 

[Egg]

I've said magic is a fiction here. What else do you require?

So are you saying it's not measurable because it's fictional? So, would fictional characters in a fictional world be able to measure and test what the fictional magic does?

It's sounding to me as if you're defining magic as fictional rather than defining magic and concluding from the definition that it could only be fictional.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

So are you saying it's not measurable because it's fictional? So, would fictional characters in a fictional world be able to measure and test what the fictional magic does?

It's sounding to me as if you're defining magic as fictional rather than defining magic and concluding from the definition that it could only be fictional.

Magic is a fiction. If that confuses you, I'm not sorry.

 

[Egg]

Magic is a fiction. If that confuses you, I'm not sorry.

I would have thought it pretty obvious that that's not what is confusing me about your position, but this doesn't seem to be something you have an interest in discussing so I'll not push the issue.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I would have thought it pretty obvious that that's not what is confusing me about your position, but this doesn't seem to be something you have an interest in discussing so I'll not push the issue.

Other than being fiction, there's nothing more to say about magic. Unless you have word games to play, in which case I suggest you play with yourself.

 

[SOdhner]

Other than being fiction, there's nothing more to say about magic. Unless you have word games to play, in which case I suggest you play with yourself.

So is everything fictional magic, or does magic have some other defining characteristic?

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

So is everything fictional magic, or does magic have some other defining characteristic?

If somebody has a way of proving magic exists (is anything other than fiction), Randi has some money for them.

 

[SOdhner]

If somebody has a way of proving magic exists (is anything other than fiction), Randi has some money for them.

Obviously. But that's not what I asked.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Obviously. But that's not what I asked.

I know that.

 

[punshhh]

Other than being fiction, there's nothing more to say about magic. Unless you have word games to play, in which case I suggest you play with yourself.

The OP is not refering to fictional forms of magic. It is refering to what are regarded as supernatural abilities exhibited by an extra terrestrial visitor.

Humanity in this position would consider some of the abilities of these ET's as magical powers especially those which appear to defy the laws of physics for example.

Of these magical powers some may be advanced technologies and others may actually be supernatural and humanity would not be able to tell the difference. They would have to take the word of the ET's which power falls into which category.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

The OP is not refering to fictional forms of magic. It is refering to what are regarded as supernatural abilities exhibited by an extra terrestrial visitor.

Humanity in this position would consider some of the abilities of these ET's as magical powers especially those which appear to defy the laws of physics for example.

Of these magical powers some may be advanced technologies and others may actually be supernatural and humanity would not be able to tell the difference. They would have to take the word of the ET's which power falls into which category.

That's just plain daffy, you know that, don't you? Clarke meant "magic", not whatever it was you're talking about. "Technology", google the word. Supernatural powers are not technology.

 

[punshhh]

That's just plain daffy, you know that, don't you? Clarke meant "magic", not whatever it was you're talking about. "Technology", google the word. Supernatural powers are not technology.

Look in my first sentence, the word "regarded", by this I mean that humanity from our perspective might regard their ability as supernatural(it might appear supernatural on first sight), this is the OP.

In my third sentence I introduced the idea that there might also be supernatural powers, who knows.

An ET for example could be omniscient and omnipotent, from our humble perspective. Everything they could do how ever supernatural it might appear would be through a (omniscient) technology. In this situation the words magic and supernatural become meaningless because everything is possible provided the appropriate technology is being used.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Look in my first sentence, the word "regarded", by this I mean that humanity from our perspective might regard their ability as supernatural(it might appear supernatural on first sight), this is the OP.

In my third sentence I introduced the idea that there might also be supernatural powers, who knows.

An ET for example could be omniscient and omnipotent, from our humble perspective. Everything they could do how ever supernatural it might appear would be through a (omniscient) technology. In this situation the words magic and supernatural become meaningless because everything is possible provided the appropriate technology is being used.

Okay, then.

 

[Apology]

I wish that "If; and then depending:" were an option on this poll because that's how I would have answered.

I think a lot of it has to do with culture and context.

When it comes to culture, it's possible that there are remote peoples on Earth who would be amazed by our current technology and consider it magic. There might be a tribe of people who have never been exposed to a simple piece of modern technology such as a cigarette lighter or a cell phone, and may consider it magic. Some cultures incorporate magical thinking as part of their cultural identity far more than others, and such cultures would be more likely to jump to the conclusion "Magic!" more quickly than more technologically oriented cultures.

Context has a lot to do with it too. If I were to find an egg-shaped object in the woods, and upon picking it up, a ray of light shot out of it and made my dog disappear, I might think "Whoah! Magic egg!" However, if an alien were to land on Earth and demonstrate the use of this egg-shaped ray-gun object by making my dog disappear, I might think, "Wow, cool gadget! I wonder how it works? Oh, and could you bring my dog back?" Basically, any advanced technology presented without the proper context would seem more "magical".