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General Israel/Palestine discussion thread

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Skeptic said:
Yes, because nukes are the ideal weapon for that.

"Joe, bad news. Another black family moved into town. There goes the neighborhood."
"Don't worry. I've got a nuke in the basement, I'll use it on their apartment. I'm 200 feet away and it's a really small warhead, so no biggie."
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before people get on with making further stuff up and claiming I said it can I just ask if you have any intention at all to ever answer a question posed to you on this forum.....you clearly say that too many Arab citizens will destroy israel. How many is that? how many arabs are you willing to tolerate?
 
Speaking of Israel's nukes

If is a violation of US law to provide military assistance to any country with undeclared nuclear weapons or a development for them.

Now you know why.
 
The Fool said:
before people get on with making further stuff up and claiming I said it can I just ask if you have any intention at all to ever answer a question posed to you on this forum.....you clearly say that too many Arab citizens will destroy israel. How many is that? how many arabs are you willing to tolerate?
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Israel doesn't have any arab citizens.
 
boyntonstu said:
Israeli PM calls for “just solution” to end the conflict.

Aboard Air Force Aleph (Reuters) – Speaking to reporters accompanying Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on his long flight to the United States tonight, Netanyahu spoke of the injustice and hardship Mexicans have endured since American forces annexed Texas in 1845. “Tens of thousands of ordinary Mexicans were driven out of their homes – the only homes they had known for centuries - and forced to live in poverty and squalor south of the border imposed by American aggression,” Netanyahu said. “The Israeli and Mexican people agree on this: This festering wound will never heal until America takes bold steps to return to the internationally accepted lines of 1845. Clearly the settlement activity that’s taken place occupied Mexico since then is illegal. When I meet the President tomorrow I will tell him to halt all building activity in Texas immediately. Two lands for two peoples, yes, but not on land taken by force from Mexico,” the Prime Minister said.

http://bigpeace.com/dfriedman/2011/05/20/netanyahu-urges-u-s-return-to-1845-borders/


What is fair for the Goose should also be fair for the Gander.
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The Mexican in Texas became US citizens. There is no apartheid.
 
a_unique_person said:
The Mexican in Texas became US citizens. There is no apartheid.
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As did Arabs in Israel. Mind you, the US and Mexico mended their ways, made peace with sustained agreements and are not in a perpetual state of war with each other (proxy warfare neither).

Just to put things into perspective as to the 1845 US-Mexico war and the subsequent territorial annexations (forced) by the US:

(present day numbers)
423,970 km2 California
696,241 km2 Texas
315,194 km2 New Mexico
(not including parts of present day Mexico occupied to force this annexation)

Over 1.44 million sq. km annexed (a small amount purchased)

vs. West Bank 5640km2 (includes E. J'lem, which really isn't part of the WB and the only part annexed by Israel)

Israeli-Palestinian conflict and the international community squabbling over 50-70 sq. km in the WB and the several km already annexed in J'lem.

And again, AUP misses the mark on what apartheid means again (n+1 times by now). How's that brick wall that you repeatedly smack yourself into feel? Getting any softer? Managing the pain? Making peace finally? :rolleyes:
 
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bigjelmapro said:
As did Arabs in Israel. Mind you, the US and Mexico mended their ways, made peace with sustained agreements and are not in a perpetual state of war with each other (proxy warfare neither).

Just to put things into perspective as to the 1845 US-Mexico war and the subsequent territorial annexations (forced) by the US:

(present day numbers)
423,970 km2 California
696,241 km2 Texas
315,194 km2 New Mexico
(not including parts of present day Mexico occupied to force this annexation)

Over 1.44 million sq. km annexed (a small amount purchased)

vs. West Bank 5640km2 (includes E. J'lem, which really isn't part of the WB and the only part annexed by Israel)

Israeli-Palestinian conflict and the international community squabbling over 50-70 sq. km in the WB and the several km already annexed in J'lem.

And again, AUP misses the mark on what apartheid means again (n+1 times by now). How's that brick wall that you repeatedly smack yourself into feel? Getting any softer? Managing the pain? Making peace finally? :rolleyes:
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remind me, why didn't you annexe the lot?
 
bigjelmapro said:
As did Arabs in Israel. Mind you, the US and Mexico mended their ways, made peace with sustained agreements and are not in a perpetual state of war with each other (proxy warfare neither).

Just to put things into perspective as to the 1845 US-Mexico war and the subsequent territorial annexations (forced) by the US:

(present day numbers)
423,970 km2 California
696,241 km2 Texas
315,194 km2 New Mexico
(not including parts of present day Mexico occupied to force this annexation)

Over 1.44 million sq. km annexed (a small amount purchased)

vs. West Bank 5640km2 (includes E. J'lem, which really isn't part of the WB and the only part annexed by Israel)

Israeli-Palestinian conflict and the international community squabbling over 50-70 sq. km in the WB and the several km already annexed in J'lem.

And again, AUP misses the mark on what apartheid means again (n+1 times by now). How's that brick wall that you repeatedly smack yourself into feel? Getting any softer? Managing the pain? Making peace finally? :rolleyes:
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Does a map of Israel show the West Bank and Gaza inside it's border or outside it's border.
 
a_unique_person said:
Does a map of Israel show the West Bank and Gaza inside it's border or outside it's border.
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Dodged it again.

Been through the maps of Israel in my house where the areas in question are shaded a different color meaning, 'still pending' and not part of Israel.

Any more deflections? Ignoring posts? Anything else to shovel through that does nothing more than display you at being completely and utterly useless at debate in any shape or form?

Suggestion for you: Stop using that 'reply' button.
 
bigjelmapro said:
Dodged it again.

Been through the maps of Israel in my house where the areas in question are shaded a different color meaning, 'still pending' and not part of Israel.

Any more deflections? Ignoring posts? Anything else to shovel through that does nothing more than display you at being completely and utterly useless at debate in any shape or form?

Suggestion for you: Stop using that 'reply' button.
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The reality is, between the settlers and Likud, those are the borders. To quote the Likud charter, they Palestinians will be free inside the confines of the Israeli border, the settlers will take whatever they can. That is not negotiable, Netanyahu has already told Obama that. The settlers have lived there too long, the 1967 borders aren't borders any more, for Israels security it must control the borders of Israel as they exist now, which includes containing the West Bank.
 
a_unique_person said:
The reality is, between the settlers and Likud, those are the borders. To quote the Likud charter, they Palestinians will be free inside the confines of the Israeli border, the settlers will take whatever they can. That is not negotiable, Netanyahu has already told Obama that. The settlers have lived there too long, the 1967 borders aren't borders any more, for Israels security it must control the borders of Israel as they exist now, which includes containing the West Bank.
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State where this exists in the Likud platform (I emphasize platform b/c its not a charter, as in the PLO/Hamas charter).

Its a rhetorical question since nowhere in this platform does Likud state annexation of the entire WB. Where do you come up with this stuff? When you state 'to quote', there must actually be something referenced...

FYI, there was no such thing as a border along the 1949 armistice lines and stated countless times already, there's no precedent where an armistice line voided two times over by war is transferable to a 3rd party, in this case the PA/PLO.
 
bigjelmapro said:
State where this exists in the Likud platform (I emphasize platform b/c its not a charter, as in the PLO/Hamas charter).

Its a rhetorical question since nowhere in this platform does Likud state annexation of the entire WB. Where do you come up with this stuff? When you state 'to quote', there must actually be something referenced...

FYI, there was no such thing as a border along the 1949 armistice lines and stated countless times already, there's no precedent where an armistice line voided two times over by war is transferable to a 3rd party, in this case the PA/PLO.
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Everyone used these borders as the basis for previous negotiations. The "3rd party" is the people who live there. They are not 3rd party, they are human beings, with rights. Israel, as you have noted already, has them within it's borders but the territories are clearly marked, although that could be changing now. They are not run by the normal legal system, but by the 'civilian authority', that is, the military.

"The 1999 Likud charter emphasized the right of settlement in "Judea, Samaria, and Azzah".[11] Similarly, they claim the Jordan River as the permanent eastern border to Israel and Jerusalem as "the eternal, united capital of the State of Israel and only of Israel"."

That eastern border is the border of Israel, not of Palestine.

" “The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state.”"

That is apartheid. If anything, the Likud charter is less extreme than what the settlers want.
 
The Fool said:
before people get on with making further stuff up and claiming I said it can I just ask if you have any intention at all to ever answer a question posed to you on this forum.....you clearly say that too many Arab citizens will destroy israel. How many is that? how many arabs are you willing to tolerate?
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So you're really going to defend suggesting that Israel will use nuclear weapons for a demographic threat? :eye-poppi
 
a_unique_person said:
Everyone used these borders as the basis for previous negotiations. The "3rd party" is the people who live there. They are not 3rd party, they are human beings, with rights. Israel, as you have noted already, has them within it's borders but the territories are clearly marked, although that could be changing now. They are not run by the normal legal system, but by the 'civilian authority', that is, the military.
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Point still stands that the PLO/PA is a 3rd party. Armistice lines were between Israel and Jordan. This isn't an issue of whether the 3rd party are humans or not but one of international law regarding war. And nobody disagreed that the 1949 armistice lines were used as a reference point.

How do you know about the maps of Israel in my house? Here, the point still stands that the WB/Gaza are 'still pending'.

"The 1999 Likud charter emphasized the right of settlement in "Judea, Samaria, and Azzah".[11] Similarly, they claim the Jordan River as the permanent eastern border to Israel and Jerusalem as "the eternal, united capital of the State of Israel and only of Israel"."

That eastern border is the border of Israel, not of Palestine.

" “The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state.”"
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You really do a poor job of linking. The legal argument for settlement in Judea/Samaria/WB is based off the British mandate/Balfour declaration. This has been stated before.

As for the permanent border from the Likud platform:
The Jordan Valley and the territories that dominate it shall be under Israeli sovereignty. The Jordan river will be the permanent eastern border of the State of Israel. The Kingdom of Jordan is a desirable partner in the permanent status arrangement between Israel and the Palestinians in matters that will be agreed upon.
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Where is the claim that Israel has/will plan to annex the WB? To my knowledge, Likud has no issue of autonomy of the WB. This also has been stated before.

That is apartheid. If anything, the Likud charter is less extreme than what the settlers want.
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Where is the apartheid with this Likud platform you keep referring to? Point it out.

On a more important note, the Israeli government, on its most right-wing, has to date only threatened the unilateral annexation of major settlement blocs in the WB as a reaction to a unilateral Palestinian independence declaration.
 
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its cute how Netanyahu whines that the 1967 lines are indefensable.

nations with nuclear weapons, do not have indefensable borders.

why do they think there has been no military attack since 1973? The Arabs suddenly love Israel?


Israel's nuclear deterrent has made a conventional war/invasion.....a thing of the past.
 
a_unique_person said:
The "3rd party" is the people who live there. They are not 3rd party, they are human beings, with rights.
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These terms are not mutually exclusive. First, second, third, fourth and so on, every "party" is assumed to be human with rights.

And while you're asserting Palestinian rights, do you believe they have any responsibilities? Or do you side with the fool in saying no?

a_unique_person said:
They are not run by the normal legal system, but by the 'civilian authority', that is, the military.
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And now you're claiming a civilian authority is the military? Black is white, up is down, no means yes...how do you keep anything straight?
 
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how many Arabs is too many Arabs? at what point does Israel start sterilizing a certain percentage of Arabs to keep their numbers from expanding?
 
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