Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Mary_H]

Mignini states that he was in the building when Raffaele and Amanda were questioned. I was under the impression that they called him and woke him up and then he drove over. So at 1:45AM Mignini just happened to be there?

Getting Mignini out of bed was a guilter myth. I don't know where they got it originally or what purpose it was supposed to serve, except maybe to reinforce the idea that Amanda was running the show.

 

[Katody Matrass]

Getting Mignini out of bed was a guilter myth. I don't know where they got it originally or what purpose it was supposed to serve, except maybe to reinforce the idea that Amanda was running the show.

Yes, apparently Mignini was somewhere "upstairs" at the questura, waiting for the events to develop, witnesses to buckle, and for the facts they knew to be true to be admitted to.

 

[Katody Matrass]

Nothing new, but this time it's Vedova that confirms:

Knox appeal: DNA experts to request more time

"It's not the first time we've asked for the police to hand over this information," della Vedova added.

(...)

"As they've not been able to carry out their first assignment, they are attempting to verify whether the original tests are valid or could have been contaminated," he said.

"But they need the raw data they have asked for from the police to do so. We first asked for it in 2009 and it's still not been handed over," he said.

 

[RoseMontague]

Mignini states that he was in the building when Raffaele and Amanda were questioned. I was under the impression that they called him and woke him up and then he drove over. So at 1:45AM Mignini just happened to be there?

11’03’’ CNN: No one hit her?
11’06’’ Mignini: No, look, absolutely not. I can state this in the most positive way, and then, let’s say… I wasn’t there when she was being questioned by police, the rooms are quite far away… you don’t know but I was… it’s quite far, there’s a corridor, and I was with the director, Dr. Porfazio, and she was being questioned in a different place. I also remember that passing through, I also saw Sollecito who was alone in a different room; he was also being questioned, as I recall. I don’t exclude…well…it’s clear that I wasn’t there, but I don’t believe that anything whatsoever happened, and in my presence absolutely not.

It seems that Mignini is accusing Amanda of having hidden the mark on her neck from investigators. He says there is even a photo. Are there photos of her in the presence of police officers with her neck not hidden? This seems to me to be just bizarre. Was she not examined by a doctor?

50'20'' CNN: None of your investigators noticed it?
50'25'' Mignini: The investigators did not notice it, because at the time, Amanda kept herself covered, she was, as described by the shopkeeper Quintavalle, covered up. However, Laura Mazzetti saw it and it was also seen, I think if I’m not mistaken or was said, by the young guy from the Marches who was living downstairs.
This girl saw it [the scratch/mark] and she stated this later in the courtroom. Moreover there is even a photo.

It also seems that Mignini is sticking to the mixed blood of Amanda and Meredith, despite it not being accepted by Massei.

And so now I put the question to you, I return the question: how is it possible that there is mixed blood of Amanda, that mixed blood of Amanda and the victim was the small bathroom, which is very near, next to the murder room?

Has Comodi succeeded in confusing Mignini as well, or is he covering up for his partner in prosecutorial prevarication?

There is a call that is made in an hour, now I do not remember, it was I think, I do not remember exactly, I think it was 3 AM in Seattle, I think.

Wow,
Mignini is claiming Nara heard the scream because Meredit's flat is in an amphitheater.

Mignini: So, the question of Curatolo is one thing, the declaration of Mrs. Capezzali, what’s her name, I think Capezzali, is something else. You say, she’s quite an elderly woman, she said she heard a scream, the scream that… She lives, I don’t know if you know the area, but, I don’t think you know it, she lives above the garage and looks over the house on via della Pergola, where there’s a kind of, something like an amphitheater. So the sounds coming from below can be heard with particular clarity and she heard the scream perfectly.

Does he just make stuff up as he goes along?

The alleged staging of the break-in now seems to be the key to Mignini's claims of guilt.

That is, that was an opportunity to make an inspection to see that house as it was, how was this window through which this unknown subject would have climbed, which then would have been Rudy. And the court was aware that this reconstruction was, in my opinion, unlikely.

I wonder how "unlikely" works in terms of beyond a reasonable doubt?

Mignini is Patrick's savior it seems:

Mignini: Well this is, in the Italian legal system, the prosecutor is not a lawyer for the accusation. He/she is an organ of the judiciary who must also seek evidence in favor of the suspect. Which we have done, particularly in the case of Lumumba.

LOL.

It turns out the rust on the bra clasp could not have been prevented:

The material on the clasp turned out then, I believe, to have deteriorated due to the presence of rust. And the rust could not have been prevented because, if one uses an anti-rust product, it would have burned the genetic material that remained.

Yes, it does appear he just makes stuff up as he goes along.

An example of Mignini logic at work:

It is possible, to begin with on the knife. The knife was in the room, means it was used. If the knife is the murder weapon, the knife was in the room.

Of course. Why did this not occur to me?

Migninin's hope for the future evaluation of his interview:

So I hope that, I don’t know, but I wish, just hope, that at least I have been able to help in clarifying [the matter]. That is, that at least something could be said [missing words] that is not exactly what we thought. This is what I would like, at least I hope.

Dream on. I evaluate him at very horribly poor, possibly even tragic, and likely the worst interview by a prosecutor that I have ever seen.

As has been pointed out by others, the lack of money excuse for not taping the interview is a new one. It seems the "we forgot" has been flushed.

Mignini: Look, that’s, I was at the police station, and all the…let’s say…when I made investigations in my own office, I taped them. I taped them, we have an apparatus for that, and I transcribed them. For example, there’s the interrogation of the English girls, Meredith’s friends, it was all taped. The interrogations of Amanda in prison were taped, and then transcribed, and we have the transcripts of… But in a police station, at the very moment of the investigation it isn’t done, not in the confrontations with Amanda or with anyone else. Also because, I can tell you, today, even then, but today in particular, we have budget problems, budget problems that are not insignificant, which do not allow us to transcribe.

Just curious as to how they had the money to transcribe Laura's and Filomena's interviews but not Amanda's. It also reads like they possibly tape interviews but never get around to transcribing them. He doesn't say why that is not the case here. This is even stranger than the "we forgot" excuse, in my opinion. Wasn't it Mignini that indicated that they forgot in the rush of the moment to begin with?

On Curatolo. This is an admission that Mignini knew that Curatolo was under investigation at the time. Was this information provided to the court so the judge could possibly take this under consideration on Curatolo's reliability. Curiously this is missing from all the motivation reports that I have seen.

Look, I know that at the moment in which he gave it, I believe that there were some lawsuits against him, but in the stage of appeal, I think he had been condemned but was appealing, so, then later the sentence became definitive, but he gave his testimony when the sentence wasn’t definitive yet. I don’t know, those are details that I wouldn’t know about exactly…but I know for certain that the sentence was not definitive, so was still being contested.

OK this next one is confusing. Despite the fact that they already knew he was under investigation it seems they don't ask the witness that question. It seems they must not disclose this either unless the defense gets wind of it.
Very strange if I am reading this correctly.

We can ask that to the accused, to the accused, amongst the other questions that we ask the accused, we ask him if he has a previous record, but we don’t ask witnesses this question, except during the defense’s investigations. This is the…so he’s just a witness who made declarations. His declarations have remained quite, rather credible.

I find him to be quite rather incredibly incredible, unreliable, dazed and confused, personally.

Sorry for quoting myself but I wanted to have these together in one post. Several of these have not been commented on as of yet.

 

[RoseMontague]

Nothing new, but this time it's Vedova that confirms:

Knox appeal: DNA experts to request more time

"It's not the first time we've asked for the police to hand over this information," della Vedova added.

(...)

"As they've not been able to carry out their first assignment, they are attempting to verify whether the original tests are valid or could have been contaminated," he said.

"But they need the raw data they have asked for from the police to do so. We first asked for it in 2009 and it's still not been handed over," he said.

That's about as good a confirmation of what Halkides has been saying that I have seen. Direct confirmation that not only does the defense not have the raw data, but also that they have asked for it and have not gotten it.

 

[Mary_H]

Nothing new, but this time it's Vedova that confirms:

Knox appeal: DNA experts to request more time

"It's not the first time we've asked for the police to hand over this information," della Vedova added.

(...)

"As they've not been able to carry out their first assignment, they are attempting to verify whether the original tests are valid or could have been contaminated," he said.

"But they need the raw data they have asked for from the police to do so. We first asked for it in 2009 and it's still not been handed over," he said.

Word on the street is that Stefanoni did not show up for today's hearing.

 

[Mary_H]

<snip>I find him to be quite rather incredibly incredible, unreliable, dazed and confused, personally.

Sorry for quoting myself but I wanted to have these together in one post. Several of these have not been commented on as of yet.

Speaking of people who are cunning and shrewd (NOT), it appears Mignini has earned a great deal more credit from all of us than he deserves. Credit, that is, in terms of what we have believed he is capable of.

We have made the effort to learn about the case only to discover now that we know more about it than Mignini. He doesn't know the facts about the knife, the mixed DNA, the bra clasp, the timing of the phone calls -- he can hardly even recall the name of his star witness.

I have an image of bloated Henry VIII on his throne, snapping his figures and pointing, while flunkies bow and scrape before him, fulfilling his every unreasonable wish and command.

Mignini appears to have no talent for scheming and conniving after all. The judges of Perugia should be absolutely ashamed of themselves.

 

[RoseMontague]

Word on the street is that Stefanoni did not show up for today's hearing.

Interesting. Maybe she is under a tsunami warning.

 

[RoseMontague]

Speaking of people who are cunning and shrewd (NOT), it appears Mignini has earned a great deal more credit from all of us than he deserves. Credit, that is, in terms of what we have believed he is capable of.

We have made the effort to learn about the case only to discover now that we know more about it than Mignini. He doesn't know the facts about the knife, the mixed DNA, the bra clasp, the timing of the phone calls -- he can hardly even recall the name of his star witness.

I have an image of bloated Henry VIII on his throne, snapping his figures and pointing, while flunkies bow and scrape before him, fulfilling his every unreasonable wish and command.

Mignini appears to have no talent for scheming and conniving after all. The judges of Perugia should be absolutely ashamed of themselves.

Yes. I am glad I am not the only one that has this impression.

 

[Mary_H]

its the odd behaviour that's hard for the defence to explain. Cellphones getting switched on at 6am. Being at the scene so long without calling the police. Seeing blood and not checking out the house. Saying she had a shower etc

yeti101, the cell phones were not switched on at 6 a.m. Cell phone records do not show when phones are turned on and off -- it even says so in the Massei report.

Raffaele's phone was never turned off. He received a message from his father around 6 a.m.; that was what showed up in his phone records. Amanda's phone was switched off after the text from Patrick, and there was no evidence of any activity on it until late the next morning. It's a myth that Amanda and Raffaele's phones were synchronized.

The phone evidence is irrelevant, anyway. It didn't raise the suspicions of the police because the police didn't know about it until after they started survelling Amanda and Raffaele, obtaining their phone records as part of that process.

Amanda and Raffaele were not at the scene very long before calling the police. During the time before they called the police, they did check out the house, tried to break down Meredith's door, and also were pretty busy calling Meredith and Filomena several times each, Amanda's mother twice, and Raffaele's sister.

The amount of blood Amanda saw on the sink before she took her shower was very small and could be considered a normal amount of blood in the bathroom of college-age women. She didn't notice the bloody footprint on the bathmat until after her shower; then she became more alarmed and left the house soon after.

If Amanda were guilty of involvement in the crime, she would not have led the police into the bathroom to show them the suspicious blood, and she and Raffaele wouldn't have made all those phone calls, including to the police.

 

[Mary_H]

Interesting. Maybe she is under a tsunami warning.

Yeah, the same one Monica Napoleani was under for the last hearing.

 

[Matthew Best]

"Five serving inmates" are to give evidence at the appeal - presumably this means Aviello/Alessi and .... who?

And what will they say?

 

[lionking]

"Five serving inmates" are to give evidence at the appeal - presumably this means Aviello/Alessi and .... who?

And what will they say?

When the defense relies on the testimony of convicts hoping to get some sort of benefit, there's a scent of desperation.

 

[PhantomWolf]

When the defense relies on the testimony of convicts hoping to get some sort of benefit, there's a scent of desperation.

What about when the prosecution does?

Not that I don't agree that it'd be a bad idea, unless they have darn good proof that the witnesses are telling the truth and can support it with something other than said witnesses word.

 

[Matthew Best]

I'm intrigued, but can't help thinking (without much evidence, admittedly) that this is a bad idea. As PhantomWolf says, if they're just going to troop some people into court with vague tales of someone else being the real murderer, then they had better have something to back that up with, otherwise it will just make the defence case look bad.

The only thing I can think is that they are hoping to demonstrate out that the prosecution focussed on Knox/Sollecito to the exclusion of all others too early, and did not investigate these claims properly. But if the claims can be quickly shown to be nonsense, then that won't hurt the prosecution at all IMO.

 

[katy_did]

"Five serving inmates" are to give evidence at the appeal - presumably this means Aviello/Alessi and .... who?

And what will they say?

There were a number of other inmates who backed up Alessi on what Guede is supposed to have said, IIRC. Probably them?

(Link to the Sky story).

 

[katy_did]

Another report, it sounds as if this is Amanda speaking today rather than the statement from December?

Amanda Knox made a tearful appeal to the appellate court trying her for murder in Italy, saying she is innocent and does not want to spend the rest of her life in prison.

The American student said nothing is more important that finding the truth despite "prejudices and mistakes." At times her voice was breaking as she made the remarks at the end of a court session in Perugia. [...]

On Saturday the court also told independent experts reviewing DNA evidence to finish their study by June 30.

 

[RoseMontague]

Another report, it sounds as if this is Amanda speaking today rather than the statement from December?

Interesting but lacking detail. Following some twitter comments from different sources, police chief no show again? Experts either complain or say what great folks the forensic people are. Defense complains they still don't have the data. Experts say they now have all the data but need more info on the collection of evidence. Defense says they don't know what data the experts now have. Inmates evidence and testimony to be allowed and new court dates set.

Who knows how this will all spin out, what is true, not, etc.

 

[PhantomWolf]

Well if all five are going to back that Geude stated that neither AK or RS were there and that they had nothing to do with it, then they have a possible reason to bring it in, as that can be confirmed by others Geude spoke to and told the same things to, though I'm still not sure how much weight it will carry without Geude being able to be questioned on it and cross-examined, though I won't mind seeing a decent lawyer getting to have a go at him on the stand.

 

[RoseMontague]

More detail on some of it:

It 's been scheduled for June 30 near the new deadline for submission of scientific expertise on the knife and the hook of the bra of Meredith Kercher, in the process of appeal to Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito. Per la perizia i periti avevano chiesto una proroga di 40 giorni concessa dalla corte. For the survey the experts had requested an extension of 40 days granted by the court. I professori Carla Vecchiotti e Stefano Conti hanno spiegato stamane alla corte di dover analizzare alcuni dati scientifici ricevuti solo pochi giorni fa. Professors Carla Vecchiotti and Stefano Conti have explained this morning at the court of having to analyze some scientific data received only a few days ago.

I periti hanno inoltre chiesto di poter avere il verbale di sequestro del coltello ritenuto l'arma del delitto in primo grado, e le deposizioni dei poliziotti che effettuarono il sopralluogo in casa di Raffaele Sollecito. The experts were also asked to have the minutes of seizure of the knife believed to be the murder weapon in the first degree, and the testimony of police officers carrying out an inspection at the home of Raffaele Sollecito. L'udienza in cui verranno discusse le conclusioni della relazione scientifica richiesta dalle difese e concessa dai giudici e'stata invece fissata per il 25 luglio prossimo, e se ve ne fosse bisogno, il 29 e il 30. The hearing that will discuss the scientific findings of the report requested by the defense and granted by the courts instead It has been set for July 25 next year, and if any were needed, 29 and 30

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