Orange Juice Placebo?

[Emet]

Emet, do your patients fail to communicate with you? Sometimes it is a matter of expertise which one doctor has and another lacks. And sometimes it can be a matter of a patient using just the right word in describing their condition - a word which "turns the lightbulb on" for the doctor. the patient may have described the condition to a dozen doctors, but never used that magic word.

My patients sometimes communicate with their teeth.

And I don't disagree with you--I just wanted to add another perspective, FWIW.

As much as I'm phobic of white coats, I have never had a problem asking questions or making issues known to doctors. The problem is, of all the times I have brought up issues like muscle cramps, the issue gets shrugged off by the doctor with "well, if it gets worse, let me know" or "well, there's not much to be done about that" or "oh, they should go away on their own". And while those may be legitimate responses for some things, they don't actually provide any benefit in treating an ongoing issue.

Not to mention that I've had more than my fair share of doctors who automatically dismiss patients who complain of pain with no specific obvious cause as "wanting attention" or "drug seeking" and just outright refuse to take their complaints seriously.

I'm not saying all doctors do this, but I've run across way too many of ones who do act this way to think that it's a minority.

And I don't disagree here either. (I'm so agreeable, aren't I? )

I've had my share of doctors who either don't listen, or give me absurd answers--such as "it's just not good medicine, Emet."

I found a new Doc.

 

[tesscaline]

And I don't disagree here either. (I'm so agreeable, aren't I? )

I've had my share of doctors who either don't listen, or give me absurd answers--such as "it's just not good medicine, Emet."

I found a new Doc.

I've been through more doctors than I can count, unfortunately. If I kept firing them all just because they don't know one thing, and make up a lame line about it, I'm pretty sure I'd run out. Instead, I just do my own research and use that to make suggestions.

For example: "You know that thing I complained about last time? I was doing some reading about it on the mayo clinic's website, and it mentioned something about treatment X. Do you know anything about that? Is it something that would make sense to try with my history?"

 

[Joey McGee]

To me what it sounds like is the presence of missing nutrients are being detected by the body and the relief is due to the body switching gears to prepare for them. When we're missing certain nutrients the body can compensate in a lot of ways. When the nutrient arrives again perhaps the signal is sent that this compensation can end and normal functioning can continue causing instant relief. Perhaps the cramps are just a symptom of whatever the body is doing to compensate.

 

[AdMan]

To me what it sounds like is the presence of missing nutrients are being detected by the body and the relief is due to the body switching gears to prepare for them.

How is this happening?

 

[RSLancastr]

To me what it sounds like is the presence of missing nutrients are being detected by the body and the relief is due to the body switching gears to prepare for them. When we're missing certain nutrients the body can compensate in a lot of ways. When the nutrient arrives again perhaps the signal is sent that this compensation can end and normal functioning can continue causing instant relief. Perhaps the cramps are just a symptom of whatever the body is doing to compensate.

Say what?

 

[Joey McGee]

Say what?

The nutrients that the body is missing are present in the incoming food that is sensed by the body.

 

[AdMan]

The nutrients that the body is missing are present in the incoming food that is sensed by the body.

I ask again, how are they "sensed"?

 

[RSLancastr]

The nutrients that the body is missing are present in the incoming food that is sensed by the body.

Oh, you meant the presence of nutrients which HAD been missing! I wondered how something could be sensed if it were missing...

 

[Joey McGee]

I ask again...

By the tongue for one, the cephalic phase has difference responses to different tastes.

Actually I caught some interesting recent research on this...

It was already known that the taste of nutrients such as sugars and fats causes the body to release hormones in preparation for digestion and metabolism. The current study reveals that the body also responds to the taste of possible toxins.

 

[tesscaline]

The nutrients that the body is missing are present in the incoming food that is sensed by the body.

I ask again, how are they "sensed"?

Yes, I'd like to know too...

How is the body "sensing" these things?

 

[AdMan]

By the tongue for one, the cephalic phase has difference responses to different tastes.

So the tongue can detect the "taste" of potassium and in a few seconds get the message to the muscles in the leg (equating that to the cephalic phase of gastric secretion is quite a stretch...)?

Really?

 

[Joey McGee]

Oh, you meant the presence of nutrients which HAD been missing! I wondered how something could be sensed if it were missing...

I think you'd need a medical intuitive for that! Does Sylvia Browne help people figure out what's missing in their diet?

Apparently you also need to be psychic to follow what I'm saying I could definitely use some writing courses I'll give you that.

 

[dropzone]

The same choreographer who told me about Potassium also taught me about stretching/walking a cramp out.

Figured that one out some hours after eating a banana.

Robert, lots of foods have stuff that's good for you. It's why we eat, and sometimes crave, them.

"Could downing the OJ actually be having a (non-placebo) effect within seconds like that?"

No, Bob, sorry to say it, but that's woo.

 

[AdMan]

I could definitely use some writing courses I'll give you that.

Sorry if I sound snarky, but some physiology courses would help too.

 

[Joey McGee]

So the tongue can detect the "taste" of potassium and in a few seconds get the message to the muscles in the leg (equating that to the cephalic phase of gastric secretion is quite a stretch...)?

Really?

Yes, really. If this

the taste of nutrients such as sugars and fats causes the body to release hormones in preparation for digestion and metabolism

is true than it's not just affecting the stomach it's affecting the entire body more or less right away. If a toxic bitter taste can produce naseua right away why can't healthy nutrients produce muscle relaxation and or painkilling?

Yes, taste is a painkiller.

newborns are less likely to cry if given a few drops of a sugar solution before immunisation.

"Healthcare professionals should consider using sucrose or glucose before and during immunisation."

So I don't see it as a stretch at all.

 

[Joey McGee]

Sorry if I sound snarky, but some physiology courses would help too.

Snark away I don't post online purely for the benefit of others, please, do your best to show where I have gone wrong and will appreciate it regardless of the outcome. I do learn a lot from posting.

 

[AdMan]

Yes, really. If this

is true than it's not just affecting the stomach it's affecting the entire body more or less right away. If a toxic bitter taste can produce naseua right away why can't healthy nutrients produce muscle relaxation and or painkilling?

Yes, taste is a painkiller.


So I don't see it as a stretch at all.

Taste (or sight, smell or even thought) of food affecting gastric secretion is not a new discovery.

That levels of particular chemicals (potassium in this case) in food being swallowed can have an almost instantaneous effect on muscles in the extremities requires almost a completely new way of thinking about how the digestive and/or the nervous systems work.

Yes, it is quite a stretch.

 

[Bilbo]

I have found that OJ works best when combined with Vodka. Much like peanut butter tastes, and functions, better with chocolate...the OJ just sucks without the Vodak.

In any case, I hate both Vodak and OJ, so YMMV.

 

[tesscaline]

Snark away I don't post online purely for the benefit of others, please, do your best to show where I have gone wrong and will appreciate it regardless of the outcome. I do learn a lot from posting.

Thing is, it's your responsibility to show that you're right. You haven't done that.

Media representations of scientific studies are known to be fraught with mistakes, conclusions taken out of context, inappropriate use of quotes from scientists, and even at times out and out lies. Without the actual study, no one can really know if what you're saying the media article says is correct, or if what you're extrapolating from that media article of the study is anywhere near what the study could possibly imply.

 

[Joey McGee]

Taste (or sight, smell or even thought) of food affecting gastric secretion is not a new discovery.

That levels of particular chemicals (potassium in this case) in food being swallowed can have an almost instantaneous effect on muscles in the extremities requires almost a completely new way of thinking about how the digestive and/or the nervous systems work.

Yes, it is quite a stretch.

What I'm saying is that the body changes what it is doing based on the presence of new nutrients. It's not that the potassium goes directly to the muscles to help, it's that the hormonal changes cause a shift in the state of the body. Does the sucrose go directly to the nerves to dull the pain? They applied the sugar 2 mins before the procedure tops.