• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

General Israel/Palestine discussion thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
No. You have guessed one possible reason out of many. It is wrong. You can keep guessing.
Click to expand...

Sure, sure. And the man who acts that way against Blacks in the example I gave? Hatred of Blacks is just "one possible reason out of many" for his behavior. Who knows? Perhaps he has a rare medical condition which causes him intolerable allergic reactions when near a Black person. Perhaps he is mind-controlled by aliens and in fact has nothing against Blacks, but is forced to act this way by his captors.

I guess we'll just have to keep guessing if he really hates Blacks or not.

But it's good to see that you at least implicitly admit that the usual gang of "anti-zionists" (again, not all critics of Israel) do, in fact, support Israel's mortal genocidal enemies and lament its creation and existence; you are just arguing with me whether this is any evidence they want Israel destroyed -- after all, they might have some other perfectly reasonable excuse for such a behavior. Only you won't tell me what it is.

I guess I'll just have to live in doubt.

G. B. Shaw allegedly said to a woman who he first offered 50,000 pounds to sleep with her and then, when she considered it, lowered the price to 50 pence. "What do you think I am?" She said. "That we already established"; said Shaw; "we're now arguing the price".

Same here. We established (or rather, the long record of posts on this forum established, and you now accepted) that these "anti-zionists" DO support Israel's mortal enemies, massively and unfairly attack it, and lament its creation and existence. We are just arguing the price -- whether this is sufficient to think they want Israel destroyed.

Well, I say it is. It's certainly the simplest and best explanation. But even if it weren't, so long as this is how these folks ACT, who cares what their reason -- or, most likely, rationalisation -- is?
 
Jews do not control the world banking system, or indeed, another global network, secret or otherwise.
The Jews did nothing to deserve the holocaust. It was entirely an evil creation of the Nazis.
Jews as a group of people are no better or worse than any other.
Jews as a group are not different to any other in any significant genetic sense. By that I am referring to the insignificant markers such as skin color, facial characteristics, etc.
Jews do not deserve to die, any more than any other group of people do.
A two state solution should result in a peaceful solution, that does not result in deaths on either side.
The majority of Palestinians, and Israelis, IMHO, want a peaceful solution, despite the posturing and extremist elements on both sides.

I can remember reading the Diary of Anne Frank years ago, and being touched by the humanity, intelligence and bravery of a young girl, only 14. The ending is gut wrenching. One day she is there, expressing the hopes of an average teenager, then nothing. Absolutely nothing. This when the end of the war is so close.
 
a_unique_person said:
Interesting. You are prepared to believe and accept Mycrofts complete misunderstanding of what Fool said, but refuse point blank to believe what Fool himself said, and clarified, to clear up the misunderstanding.
Click to expand...
I think you and TF are the only ones who believe that Mycroft has misunderstood one iota of what TF has stated.

When should we expect you two's wedding invitations? RSVP?
 
a_unique_person said:
You see, if that is true, then that is evidence. He has said it. If someone hasn't said it, then you don't have evidence. What you have is something internal to yourself that needs to believe it for some other reason. I have no idea what that reason is unless you tell people what it is.
Click to expand...
There's the option of a search on this forum, you do know that right?

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6251079&postcount=496
Matt Giwer said:
Jews wiped Palestine off the map and no one appears to miss it. I don't see why it would be any different should Israel disappear. It is just one more pissant country in world with too many pissant countries.
...
Click to expand...
Apart from where Matt justifies terrorism against Israelis repeatedly, this is just another :footinmou moment for you to add to the pile. Enjoy.
 
a_unique_person said:
People have rights. This, for example, :We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights". Unalienable, that is, you have rights, such as the right to self determination, regardless of anything else.
People have Responsibilities. That is, they have to behave within the boundaries of international law.

The two statements do not contradict each other.
Click to expand...
So you don't think anything at all should be required from the Palestinians for them to get their own state?

Talk about rights all you like, but rights can be lost when you don't abide by the rules of civil society. Generally, civil society frowns upon you or your proxies lobbing bombs at the civilians of a neighboring country, and openly vowing the destruction of said country.

The Palestinians can get a state when they demonstrate they're responsible enough to act like a civilized modern state. Thus far, they have been sorely lacking in that regard.
 
Matt, would you also agree that the Americas, Australia, and New Zealand are also stolen lands and the current non indigenous residents are also "occupiers" ?
 
The Fool said:
man oh man....thats word for word,
Click to expand...
Actually that's not even close to word-for-word. Here is the actual word-for-word that is in dispute:

The Fool said:
Mycroft said:
Let’s hear some of your requirements. You’ve dodged that question long enough.
Click to expand...

requirements for what? Statehood? I believe its the right of the palestinians to have a state. I don't put requirements on rights. It should just be done....then....the responsibilities of statehood should be required of them, as it is with everyone else.
Click to expand...


You want the Palestinians to get a state without having to do anything at all in return.
 
The Fool said:
well it certainly doesn't appear to be a language you understand.

you
"where it means he does expect the PA to meet requiremnents to become a state"
me
"the responsibilities of statehood should be required of them"
Click to expand...

By all means, please clarify.

Are these "responsibilities of statehood" something to be assumed before or after achieving statehood?

Because if the answer is after, then Wildcat and I were right in saying you have no expectations of them before achieving statehood. If the answer is before, then we go back to where we started, and you can tell us what you think "responsibilities of statehood" are, and what the Palestinians can do to achieve them.


The Fool said:
man oh man....thats word for word, Thats as much as I'm prepared to play this game as you appear determined to manufacture whatever argument you wish to oppose....
Click to expand...

Oh please stop with this grievance theater. You whine endlessly about being misunderstood all the while refusing to say a word of clarification. Either move the dialog forward or withdraw.
 
a_unique_person said:
Jews do not control the world banking system, or indeed, another global network, secret or otherwise.
The Jews did nothing to deserve the holocaust. It was entirely an evil creation of the Nazis.
Jews as a group of people are no better or worse than any other.
Jews as a group are not different to any other in any significant genetic sense. By that I am referring to the insignificant markers such as skin color, facial characteristics, etc.
Jews do not deserve to die, any more than any other group of people do.
Click to expand...

And the purpose of this checklist is to prove what, exactly?


a_unique_person said:
A two state solution should result in a peaceful solution, that does not result in deaths on either side.
Click to expand...

I agree with you here. Where we probably disagree is I believe peace has to be created by both Israelis and Palestinians, Israelis can't do it alone.

a_unique_person said:
The majority of Palestinians, and Israelis, IMHO, want a peaceful solution, despite the posturing and extremist elements on both sides.
Click to expand...

This is a false equivocation. The "extremists" among the Palestinians are their leaders, and those that don't hold their extremists views are not allowed to join the political process, and run the risk of being killed as a collaborator. There is nothing comparable on the Israeli side, and it's pure denial to suggest otherwise.

a_unique_person said:
I can remember reading the Diary of Anne Frank years ago, and being touched by the humanity, intelligence and bravery of a young girl, only 14. The ending is gut wrenching. One day she is there, expressing the hopes of an average teenager, then nothing. Absolutely nothing. This when the end of the war is so close.
Click to expand...

I'd be a lot more impressed by your recognition of the humanity of Jewish people if you started recognizing that they also have rights in the Israel/Palestine conflict.
 
a_unique_person said:
In return they have to abide by the rules of being a state, just like everyone else.
Click to expand...
Such as recognizing Israel's right to exist? Removing language from their official documents calling for Israel's destruction?

And this has to happen as a condition of getting their state?
 
Matt Giwer said:
NO ONE, absolutely no one FORCED Jews to go to Palestine.
Click to expand...

Six million of them were murdered in Europe between 1939 and 1945.

To stay behind after the killing was over would have been to live in proximity to those who carried out or blithely ignored the slaughter. A situation that would have been intolerable.

Yes, they were forced out.
 
a_unique_person said:
In return they have to abide by the rules of being a state, just like everyone else.
Click to expand...



I look at the world and I see states like North Korea, Iraq under Saddam Hussein, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Iran....and I don't see any consistent "rules" that are applied to them.

So...just what are these rules? What is this standard you claim they will eventually be held to?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom