Vaccine/autism CT discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.
You mean parents are stupid if they noticed that their child had a negative reaction to a vaccination and spoke up/out about it?

You don't have to be stupid to make a false association.

And you're saying millions of children world wide, at age of 1 or 2, are genetically disposed to become autistic no matter their lineage?

Millions of children are going to become autistic regardless of whether their parents have it and regardless of whether they are vaccinated. In fact, with expanding diagnostic criteria, more and more kids will be considered "autistic" that wouldn't have been before. One group wants to expand the definition of "autism" to the point that 1 in 3 kids in America would now be included.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7171530&postcount=63

It was about vaccines and profits, not vaccines for children and profits.

You have yet to explain why profits are relevant in any way.
 
I have a hypothesis that younger people are more likely to be anti-vaxxers than people around my age (56) because all of their lives they have benefited from herd immunity, and the younger ones have never known someone crippled or dead because they hadn't been immunized. MMR? Immunized the hard way for Mumps, and the easier way for Rubella (German Measles), which immunized me for Measles, which meant some time off from third grade but I had to stay away from pregnant women for a while. Diptheria? Had it. Pertussis (Whooping Cough)? Another "natural" immunity but I got my infants out of a McDonalds the moment I heard that telltale cough. Polio? Even back then there were anti-vaxxers, so a kid down the block was permanently crippled.

These were not rare diseases. Hell, EVERYBODY got at least some of them. And some died and some were crippled. Yet you never hear of them anymore, unless a group of anti-vaxxers have their way. Then they come back.

Most folks my age realize the value of vaccines protecting our children and grandchildren. Clayton seems to not be one of them. Some younger people never lived in a world where childhood diseases were commonplace and seem incapable of imagining it. He doesn't seem to be able to remember it.

Trust me, it was real, and even if there were a possibility that vaccines were a cause of autism, they would still be worth it. As they have been demonstrated to NOT be a cause, anti-vaxxer beliefs are grossly irresponsible.
 
Last edited:
Maybe he didn't have sufficient funding to a large study. But he did have access to autistic children who became autistic after a recent vaccine dose.

As said, he cherry picked.
You have failed to address the Danish (or smaller Swedish) studies.

If MMR was a factor in autism then why did neither of these studies (especially the Danish one) find any increase in autism rates amongst those children who had the jabs compared to those who hadn't?
 
There's another point that I can comment on from an anecdotal basis. My son, who is autistic, was very clearly autistic before his MMR vaccination - in fact, the first thing I ever noticed about him, within minutes of his birth, was that his responses and interactions weren't normal for a newborn baby. (It wasn't drug related because my wife didn't have any.) His MMR vaccination was an extremely traumatic experience, because we couldn't communicate with him effectively enough to reassure him that having a needle stuck in his arm wasn't going to cause him any long term harm, and his behaviour became a lot worse - meaning, effectively, a lot more autistic - immediately afterwards. If I hadn't already known that something wasunusual about his development, I could easily have made the false connection.

So, if another small child, already autistic, but not obviously so, goes for a vaccination, finds the experience traumatic because the impairment of his receptive communication makes him unable to receive the non-verbal signals of reassurance his parents are sending him - indeed, has never been able to receive these signals, leading to the high level of anxiety that's a classic feature of autism - and retreats, after the experience, to the rituals and repetitions that comfort him, and that his parents have never really seen as unusual before. But now he's doing it all a lot more, and it's too obvious to miss. And then they say, "But he wasn't doing anything like this before the vaccination." He was, but it didn't reach the significance threshold, so they didn't realise he was autistic.

Personally, I suspect that's the reason for the association. But it's only my opinion, and it's based on anecdotal evidence, so feel free to take it with a pinch of salt.

Dave
 
There's another point that I can comment on from an anecdotal basis. My son, who is autistic, was very clearly autistic before his MMR vaccination - in fact, the first thing I ever noticed about him, within minutes of his birth, was that his responses and interactions weren't normal for a newborn baby. (It wasn't drug related because my wife didn't have any.) His MMR vaccination was an extremely traumatic experience, because we couldn't communicate with him effectively enough to reassure him that having a needle stuck in his arm wasn't going to cause him any long term harm, and his behaviour became a lot worse - meaning, effectively, a lot more autistic - immediately afterwards. If I hadn't already known that something wasunusual about his development, I could easily have made the false connection.

So, if another small child, already autistic, but not obviously so, goes for a vaccination, finds the experience traumatic because the impairment of his receptive communication makes him unable to receive the non-verbal signals of reassurance his parents are sending him - indeed, has never been able to receive these signals, leading to the high level of anxiety that's a classic feature of autism - and retreats, after the experience, to the rituals and repetitions that comfort him, and that his parents have never really seen as unusual before. But now he's doing it all a lot more, and it's too obvious to miss. And then they say, "But he wasn't doing anything like this before the vaccination." He was, but it didn't reach the significance threshold, so they didn't realise he was autistic.

Personally, I suspect that's the reason for the association. But it's only my opinion, and it's based on anecdotal evidence, so feel free to take it with a pinch of salt.

Dave

I've never looked at is this way before, but it seems reasonable.

If an autistic child can traumatized by such a seemingly innocuous social interaction as a hug, then imagine how he would react to having a strange man grab his arm and stick a sharp metal object into it.
 
I can sell things at cost and make a whole lot of gross profits too. I can sell $1,000,000 worth of stuff tomorrow but if it cost me $999,990 to make and ship I will have barely enough for 2 cups of coffee.

You seem to have no clue about the definitions of 'profit' are.

I'm not saying they don't make money - they should. It encourages them to stay in business, expand and research into other areas. But to say they are making serious money compared to the cash cows things like Viagra and Cholestrerol medications is a joke.

The ability to make profits on other drugs vs the low margins from vaccines is why there are so few companies making children's vaccines.

If you had any idea of what you are talking about instead of repeating hysterical nonsense you would understand that.

Yadda Yadda yadda. Now I'm being told that sellers of vaccines aren't in it to win it.
 
Yes.


Makes no sense.


Makes no sense.


Makes no sense.


Makes no sense.

Millions of children world wide, are genetically disposed to become autistic. This makes sense.

Symptoms of autism typically begin showing at ages 1 or 2, around the same time the MMR vaccine is administrated. Idiots are now convinced that the vaccine causes autism, despite the fact that there is no evidence that agrees with them.

Symptoms of autism typically begin showing at ages 1 or 2, around the same time, AFTER MMR vaccine is administrated.
 
Isn't it obvious? They get exposed to the same air vaccinated people are breathing!

Ok, now to be actually serious... Anti-Vaxxers are beyond ignorance : they manage to reach that rare level of criminal stupidity.
About two years ago, some moron had the guts to claim that POLIO wasn't a serious illness, and that the vaccine wasn't important - to my uncle's face. He has a lame leg and poor mobility in the other one due to Polio, and he got off lucky - a friend of his got tetraplegic.
 
Ok, now to be actually serious... Anti-Vaxxers are beyond ignorance : they manage to reach that rare level of criminal stupidity.

To be fair to a group of people that includes some friends of mine, most parents of autistic children are stressed and exhausted to the point where they can barely spell MMR, and would desperately like to find a reason why their lives have had this extraordinary burden heaped on top of them. Expecting calm and rational analysis from them is expecting a little too much.

Dave
 
To be fair to a group of people that includes some friends of mine, most parents of autistic children are stressed and exhausted to the point where they can barely spell MMR, and would desperately like to find a reason why their lives have had this extraordinary burden heaped on top of them. Expecting calm and rational analysis from them is expecting a little too much.

Dave


Why should any parent believe you vaccine people when all the kings men, with all the science and computer power and funding that is at their disposal, supposedly can't figure out what has caused the autism "epidemic?" Since what 1970?
 
Why should any parent believe you vaccine people when all the kings men, with all the science and computer power and funding that is at their disposal, supposedly can't figure out what has caused the autism "epidemic?" Since what 1970?

I was immunised.

My two daughters were immunised.

My two daughters entire classes were immunised.

My two daughters co-classmates were immunised.

Not a single case found.

Where is the epidemic?
 
Why should any parent believe you vaccine people when all the kings men, with all the science and computer power and funding that is at their disposal, supposedly can't figure out what has caused the autism "epidemic?" Since what 1970?

What autism "epidemic"?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom