Merged Discussion of the moon landing "hoax"

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A guy over at DIF, movingfinger (aka 'threadworm' at ApolloHoax.net) has done a pretty cool analysis of the images of Earth shot during the Apollo missions, comparing those images to weather sat images from the same time periods. F'n smoking gun proof that the images were taken when and where claimed.

I've been saying for years that the Apollo program evidence presents a coherent story, internally and externally consistent. His photo analysis shows dead-on consistency between the Apollo images and external data.

And what to the CT's bring to the table? The same old same old, "photo anomalies" and van Halen's belt, with nary a bit of actual data.

Cosmored/rocky/Davidc/fatfreddy88 has zero imagination. A guy at DIF actually had the brass to make up his own stuff and do math. Even though he was utterly wrong I had to respect his effort. What does fatfreddy give us? The same stupid links he's been using for years and links to his own failed arguments on other fora.
 
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I've never seen it proven. I've seen people give less-than-convincing explanations and then just assume it had been proven. Prove it right now.

Rather detailed explanations have been provided to you, davidc/rocky. You simply ignored or denied them. In fact, over on apollohoax you denied that the South Atlantic Anomaly even existed. But that's your problem; the rest of the world, including every spacefaring nation on (or rather, above) Earth, and every geophysicist and astrophysicist, all understand what you reflexively deny.

My stand on space radiation is "I don't know".

We understand that you don't know anything about the subject; all you are able to do is regurgitate YouTube videos and other conspiracy cranks' ravings. But in the sense you meant, in that you claim to be "agnostic" - no, no one believes you. You've tied yourself into knots to deny the reality of the Apollo missions, to avoid understanding any of the relevant information, and especially to avoid having to actually test any of your claims. Lying to pretend that you are open-minded about the subject is a rhetorical device as flimsy as it is embarrassingly transparent.

That was why I had to poll the "lurkers and viewers" you claimed supported you over on apollohoax; you kept saying they were "watching and judging", but as usual refused to do any work to back up your claim. So I did it for you, and every one of them judged you wrong (several questioned your sanity). Don't whine about it; you asked for it.

In order to know, I'd have to send up my own probe to measure it.

You can't. The problem isn't that you can't afford it; the problem is that you are absolutely, unrelievedly, and determinedly ignorant of every facet of the technology, science, and engineering principles and processes involved, and have demonstrated you're neither willing to learn, nor, apparently, able to.

All I have is second-hand info so there's now way to know what's bogus and what isn't.

Fortunately, in the real world we have plenty of ways to know what's bogus and what isn't. Many nations and organizations - including university students and amateur radio satellite operators from around the world - have been able to gauge the radiation environment for themselves. The South Atlantic Anomaly has been studied by scientists from many nations by aircraft, sounding rockets, balloon-borne instruments, and satellites. And, of course, as I pointed out already, Shuttle and ISS crews routinely transit the SAA. I've observed effects on spacecraft to which I personally issuing commands.

Your defense was to deny the SAA existed, and claim that all those scientists and students and spacecraft operators and engineers are all in on it, or fooled by "secret" NASA data - a claim which is so far divorced from reality as to serve as a positive diagnostic sign for psychosis. And yet billions of people rely on spacecraft designed to the same data for television and voice and news and commerce every day, happily oblivious to your frantic regurgitation of the same silliness under different handles on different boards.

I'm sorry for you; sorry that you don't want to learn anything, sorry that you can't come up with anything original of your own, or even new arguments you stole from someone else; and sorry most of all that, for whatever reason, you seem to feel threatened that humans are capable of real accomplishments like exploring and working in space, and setting foot on another world and bringing back part of it. I don't know why you cramp yourself in such a dreary little existence, but I hope you get help with whatever compels you to do so.
 
I've never seen it proven. I've seen people give less-than-convincing explanations and then just assume it had been proven. Prove it right now.

My stand on space radiation is "I don't know". In order to know, I'd have to send up my own probe to measure it. All I have is second-hand info so there's now way to know what's bogus and what isn't.

In this post from another thread I posted some info on why we can't trust what we read.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7177215&postcount=2387

How could you trust the data from your probe? Couldn't they just substitute another probe to give the reading they want you to receive?
 
I would ask those that know FatFreddy from elsewhere to address what he brings up here and not import your personal squabbles or issues. For some of us this is our first encounter with him and would like things to be professional.

Now...as to the radiation issue. Even if true you (meaning FatFreddy) are basically saying that work from earlier in Van Allen's career is to be more trusted than the later work. Why?
 
I would ask those that know FatFreddy from elsewhere to address what he brings up here and not import your personal squabbles or issues. For some of us this is our first encounter with him and would like things to be professional.

I won't speak for others, but for myself it's been 3 and half or 4 years of running into him all over the internet regurgitating pretty much the exact same posts.

From now on, though, I'll only mock him as fatfreddy88 and heckle what he says here.

But keep in mind, he links to HIS OWN THREADS ELSEWHERE some dating back 4 years with the exact same points, repeatedly debunked. If he wants to raise the same points using old posts, I'll refer to those same conversations back at him.

It goes both ways.

Debunking the stupid moon hoax is repetitive enough when just playing whack-a-mole, but having the exact same conversation on a new forum with the same user with a new name gets extra old.
 
The proof that the moon missions were faked is crushing. Here's some of it in case there's anyone who hasn't seen it yet.


Three words for you to follow: Library. Books. Read.

The depth of your ignorance on the sheer scope of the Apollo program is breathtaking. The depth of your ignorance on the vast breadth and depth of evidence demonstrating the reality of the lunar landings is similarly breathtaking. The idea that some isolated clips in some YouTube videos constitutes definitive proof of fakery is so laughable as to border on insanity.

Library. Books. Read. Before you make yourself look foolish beyond words once again...
 
I won't speak for others, but for myself it's been 3 and half or 4 years of running into him all over the internet regurgitating pretty much the exact same posts.

From now on, though, I'll only mock him as fatfreddy88 and heckle what he says here.

But keep in mind, he links to HIS OWN THREADS ELSEWHERE some dating back 4 years with the exact same points, repeatedly debunked. If he wants to raise the same points using old posts, I'll refer to those same conversations back at him.

It goes both ways.

Debunking the stupid moon hoax is repetitive enough when just playing whack-a-mole, but having the exact same conversation on a new forum with the same user with a new name gets extra old.

Yes but understand that to an outside observer going: "I know you from this other place and think you are stupid" isn't the most effective way to debunk them.
 
The way the flag moves in this clip closes the whole case anyway.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymwE1sNm82Y

No it doesn't. It demonstrates that the flag is moving in a vacuum. It oscillates backwards and forwards for 30 seconds. Even if you speed it up double(with astronaut motion then looking way too fast), it still takes 15 seconds to come to a halt. To keep astronaut motion to the criteria you yourself suggest, it would move for 20 seconds (speeded up 1.5 times).

Here is a short video demonstrating that Jarrah White debunks himself by running past a flag, that stops in 4-5 seconds, 8-10 when double speed, 6-7.5 seconds with your criteria. The fabric is clearly heavier on his flag so much less likely to stop quicker as a light fabric would, the way it stops is considerably different to the slow oscillation of Apollo - rapid with no gentle swaying.

Jarrah's flag adjusted for the Moon with your criteria is 7.5 seconds.
Moon flag adjusted for Earth with your criteria is 20 seconds.
That is a very big discrepancy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0RsDqmPa_s


Now, the so called initial motion that you claim is caused by 'the atmosphere explanation'. Here is a short video demonstrating a wide book falling from height that doesn't move an extremely light object until it is within a few inches of it. The Apollo astronaut is a couple of feet from the flag when this so called initial motion occurs - nobody pushes air of any significance in front of them. Air seeks the path of least resistance and creates a wake to the side of a moving object:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJyv4TYpTKo


Here is Jarrah White in yet another debunking himself video. He runs past a flag to demonstrate that an air wake will move a flag(which everybody knows anyway). The problem he didn't notice or anticipate was that the flag only started to move as he was level with it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2uhMQXRegc


Now the initial motion itself. It is caused by "an anomaly with the colour wheels on the Apollo camera, compensating for an addition to the screen, and a rapid increase in contrast." In this video that shows the anomaly, the whole flag shifts to the right, including the flagpole itself and the blue part of the flag.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kalT4NGdDsk


Here is a similar effect where a bright suited astronaut entering the shot causes the flag to jump out and expand, "This whole thing was shot on the moon using an RCA TV camera - a field-sequential camera. It has so many anomalies within it as it is transferred to video and ultimately mpeg that these blooming effects can occur."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bld6PWsyIU0


I know in advance the replies to these, so will leave in blissful anticipation;)
 
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I'd prefer a direct answer to my question regarding Van Allen's research.
 
I'm sorry the info I posted took up so much space. I should have just posted a couple of links to all of it. Here are the links.

From your second link (I shan't be assisting you in your quest to flood the internet with your hundreds of forum posts by repeating it).

"What I hypothesize is that a fifty percent slow-motion was used in Apollo 11 to simulate lunar gravity. Later, they improved their methods of simulating lunar gravity and started using a combination of slow-motion and support wires. The slow-motion in the later missions might not have been exactly half-speed. It might have been sixty five or seventy percent of natural speed. It looked better but it was inconsistent with Apollo 11 footage. The inconsistency is apparent."

I shall further summarise your claim. You say Apollo 11 was half speed, and that later missions were 2/3 speed. Representing double speed and 1.5 times when reversed. Later missions according to you used "invisible" wires.

The Apollo 11 lunar surface footage was shot in one continuous transmission. For the theory you present to be true there should be no discrepancies, but there are. So, on a first lunar landing, the astronauts would be moving very carefully since they are unsure of their footing, balance or environmental system ruggedness should they fall over.

The cherry picked part you suggest is where Buzz Aldrin is doing mobility testing. He gently jogs along. The clip still shows his arms moving oddly, but you would say otherwise.

However, here is a clip of some Apollo 11 motion that looks patently absurd when double speed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TGf68LXqRc

Here is a longer segment (which includes footage of Buzz running closer to the flag than Apollo 15 with no air wake movement!):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyFqc7Oc2WE


Now your suggestion that later missions were slowed down 66.66% needs to work with inanimate objects. Here are two videos that refute that claim completely.

Video 1 shows 3 objects being thrown and their relative heights and times and compares this to what would be expected at 66.66%:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sq6yYQYoX_A

Video 2 shows a clear dust arc side on and demonstrates how this would travel if it were speeded up, and what force would be needed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKpZM0gqugs


Your theory is completely wrong, as those clips and analyses demonstrate.
 
Your theory is completely wrong, as those clips and analyses demonstrate.

It's not even his theory; he's just parroting what he is being told no questions asked. It's what conspiracy theorists do.
 
Yes but understand that to an outside observer going: "I know you from this other place and think you are stupid" isn't the most effective way to debunk them.

This!

Great point Travis, m'man. Instead of looking like a hateful jerk trying to silence a truth seeker, it is much better to simply cut & paste some text or links that show someone is incorrect about this issue. The information is out there and is as easily regurgitated as the hoax material at this point.

It only takes a minute to link to a reasoned, annotated debunking of the hoax material and it is way more likely to be succssesful at protecting innocents from the hoaxers than attacking the CT.
 
I'm sorry the info I posted took up so much space. I should have just posted a couple of links to all of it. Here are the links.

I just read that forum's last 10 or so pages, where you appear to be getting your butt kicked by somebody with the same userid as yourself here:D

Found this.
Re: your spursforum links where you provided all those 'answers'. How come you haven't answered these over there?

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5235550&postcount=2212
 
Video 1 shows 3 objects being thrown and their relative heights and times and compares this to what would be expected at 66.66%:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sq6yYQYoX_A

Video 2 shows a clear dust arc side on and demonstrates how this would travel if it were speeded up, and what force would be needed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKpZM0gqugs


Your theory is completely wrong, as those clips and analyses demonstrate.


Thanks for posting those videos, Erock. (Not to be confused with C-rock :D ) Those are even better than the rooster tails from the lunar rovers for proving the video was shot in a vacuum with low gravity. BTW do you know if Betamax101 posts here, on Apollohoax, or BAUT?
 
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