Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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christianahannah said:
A poster by the name of Barry T has asked Blogger this question:



The poster then pastes what I believe was Frank's last article. Blogger replies with a Spam/Terms of Service - Appeal Guidelines - April 2011.

http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/blogger/thread?tid=09ae99555c61f8ab&hl=en

Perhaps people could direct their questions at the above link.

(I think Barry T has confused the name of Frank with John.)
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Looks like a boilerplate response from some Google employee who has no idea what Barry_T is talking about. Anyway, I doubt any questions will be answered there considering it appears to be a help forum for Blogger users and not readers. Frank would have to request the appeal himself to get any sort of answer (though I assume he himself already knows the answer).
 
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Does anyone have the link to the video of a police interrogation (related to another case, but posted here because it demonstrated the skillful and effective eliciting of a true confession by police) that someone posted here yesterday? It seems to have disappeared.
 
christianahannah said:
A poster by the name of Barry T has asked Blogger this question:



The poster then pastes what I believe was Frank's last article. Blogger replies with a Spam/Terms of Service - Appeal Guidelines - April 2011.

http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/blogger/thread?tid=09ae99555c61f8ab&hl=en

Perhaps people could direct their questions at the above link.

(I think Barry T has confused the name of Frank with John.)
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Frank had mentioned earlier that he had taken steps to protect the blog from attack by Italian authorities. Is it possible that this really was John's blog and the italian's just censored a publication of a non-Italian on a server in the USA?

The blogger poster DarkUFO (aka Pug) looks like a spambot that is boosting it's ranking by spamming googles TOS to a report of a blog being pulled. His profile doesn't indicate any official relation to Google or Blogger.


My suggestion of a separate thread was referring to here on JREF. I think this topic would appeal to a much wider audience here if it is separated from the ongoing AK debate. Someone that wants to take this should start the OP. I thought of just requesting a split but that would tag the new thread with a "split from..." title that would turn posters away.
 
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babycondor said:
Does anyone have the link to the video of a police interrogation (related to another case, but posted here because it demonstrated the skillful and effective eliciting of a true confession by police) that someone posted here yesterday? It seems to have disappeared.
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I think you're referring to this which was actually posted by Charlie Wilkes at IIP.
 
Slayhamlet said:
Looks like a boilerplate response from some Google employee who has no idea what Barry_T is talking about. Anyway, I doubt any questions will be answered there considering it appears to be a help forum for Blogger users and not readers. Frank would have to request the appeal himself to get any sort of answer (though I assume he himself already knows the answer).
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Here is the response I received:

DarkUFO has posted an answer to the question "I am unable to access http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/":

Maybe the owner delete it?
 
Because defamation is a criminal offense in Italy, being sued by Mignini needn't mean that Frank is charged with defaming Mignini. Frank may have been charged with defaming the cops instead, and Mignini is serving as the prosecutor.

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Fine said:
Because defamation is a criminal offense in Italy, being sued by Mignini needn't mean that Frank is charged with defaming Mignini. Frank may have been charged with defaming the cops instead, and Mignini is serving as the prosecutor.

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But the allegation made by Sfarzo is that it is indeed Mignini himself who has brought the action. And the court pursuing the action - again according to Sfarzo - is in Florence, which is outside Mignini's jurisdiction. It's quite clear (if Sfarzo knows the truth and is telling the truth) that Mignini is the plaintiff in this action.

And, by the way, not all defamation in Italy is a criminal matter - some defamation is civil in nature. However, this particular instance would appear to fall under the banner of criminal defamation.
 
PDiGirolamo said:
Maybe but then again maybe the injunction forced Frank to take it down himself.
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Frank is explicit in his phone interview with the WSH that the site owner (Blogspot, owned by Google) took the Perugia Shock site down subject to the request from the Florentine court, and that Frank himself was only informed of that action via an email. Therefore, if Frank is to be believed, he didn't take down the blog of his own volition.
 
Would I know a false confession if I saw one?

I hate to comment and run, but this quote, from the article "I'd know a false confession if I saw one," by Kassin et al., intrigued me: "Once again, investigators were not more accurate than students, only more confident and more biased. Importantly, the response bias currently exhibited reveals that investigators are not disposed to seeing deception per se (which, in this study, would mean disbelieving the confes- sions) but, rather, they are biased toward inferring guilt (an inference that involves accepting the confessions as true)."

Here is one other interesting finding: "Third, this research showed that people are better judges of confessions when they listen to audiotapes of the statements than when they see complete audiovisual presentations."
 
First time poster here, long time reader. (I've been a contributor to perugia shock under the name 'marc' for a few years now).

Crazy developments in this case: the Stefanoni / Hellmann exchange, and the Sfarzo / Mignini escalation, as well as the wonderful CNN video. Thanks to everyone who have been contributing to this discussion. Not sure if Mignini is responding to the CNN video or the CPJ letter to president Napolitano. (By the way, anyone know how open he is to reform?).

By forcing Google to remove this established blog, Mignini has somewhat declared war on more than Sfarzo, but really the entire internet and the concept of free expression in general. I can't believe that Google complied. I could see the blog be "banned" in Italy, but why should America and the rest of the free world be strangled by Italy's absurd anti-defamation laws, and in particular from a single power-hungry and vindictive individual?

Will Italy join China, etc., and start making a list of banned websites, i.e. ones that don't have a domain in italy (e.g. google.it), which it can't suppress?

If I would make blog critical of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad or Kim Jong-Il, and either of them would complain to google, would Google delete my blog internationally or just in those backward countries? Or would they not care, since it's PC to complain about these two individuals?

Anyway, it kind of gives me the idea to start a blog, not hosted on Google, called "Mignini Shock" or "Mignini Watch". The first thing I would post is the entire collection of Perugia Shock blog entries. (by the way, I saved the entire collection as PDF files a couple months ago anticipating this might happen). Anyone know of a good blog hosting site that has a better record of defending freedom of expression?
 
souldonut said:
By forcing Google to remove this established blog, Mignini has somewhat declared war on more than Sfarzo, but really the entire internet and the concept of free expression in general. I can't believe that Google complied. I could see the blog be "banned" in Italy, but why should America and the rest of the free world be strangled by Italy's absurd anti-defamation laws, and in particular from a single power-hungry and vindictive individual?
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Hello new guy. Do you have any evidence that any of this is actually true?
 
souldonut said:
First time poster here, long time reader. (I've been a contributor to perugia shock under the name 'marc' for a few years now).

Crazy developments in this case: the Stefanoni / Hellmann exchange, and the Sfarzo / Mignini escalation, as well as the wonderful CNN video. Thanks to everyone who have been contributing to this discussion. Not sure if Mignini is responding to the CNN video or the CPJ letter to president Napolitano. (By the way, anyone know how open he is to reform?).

By forcing Google to remove this established blog, Mignini has somewhat declared war on more than Sfarzo, but really the entire internet and the concept of free expression in general. I can't believe that Google complied. I could see the blog be "banned" in Italy, but why should America and the rest of the free world be strangled by Italy's absurd anti-defamation laws, and in particular from a single power-hungry and vindictive individual?

Will Italy join China, etc., and start making a list of banned websites, i.e. ones that don't have a domain in italy (e.g. google.it), which it can't suppress?

If I would make blog critical of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad or Kim Jong-Il, and either of them would complain to google, would Google delete my blog internationally or just in those backward countries? Or would they not care, since it's PC to complain about these two individuals?

Anyway, it kind of gives me the idea to start a blog, not hosted on Google, called "Mignini Shock" or "Mignini Watch". The first thing I would post is the entire collection of Perugia Shock blog entries. (by the way, I saved the entire collection as PDF files a couple months ago anticipating this might happen). Anyone know of a good blog hosting site that has a better record of defending freedom of expression?
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Welcome Souldonut; You make some very valid points,I can't help you on the blog hosting site, I am hoping that the removal of Perugia Shock is just temporary,it really intrigues as to why Mignini moved out of Perugia to Florence to get his injunction
 
Alt+F4 said:
Hello new guy. Do you have any evidence that any of this is actually true?
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Will you accept the crime scene photos, or will you wait until the transcripts from the trial are available? :p

So far there's the article from the West Seattle Herald linked above, with quotes from Frank himself as to the cause. There's also the letter from the Committee to Protect Journalists to the Italian President critical of the "politically motivated" attack on Frank's blog. There's also the fact that Frank is now the eighth person reporting on the case to have charges filed/investigations started on them. Plus we know Mignini has done this before, in connection with the Monster of Florence case.

A long time ago I recall a certain someone posting something to the effect that were all the reports of charges filed/investigations begun true, they'd be going after Frank Sfarzo too. Well, they went after Frank.
 
Kaosium said:
So far there's the article from the West Seattle Herald linked above, with quotes from Frank himself as to the cause. There's also the letter from the Committee to Protect Journalists to the Italian President critical of the "politically motivated" attack on Frank's blog. There's also the fact that Frank is now the eighth person reporting on the case to have charges filed/investigations started on them.
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Ok, got it, there is zero evidence that any of this is true. You have nothing but what "Frank" and Chris Mellas said. No corroboration, no court order, no notification from Google or Blogger.
 
souldonut said:
First time poster here, long time reader. (I've been a contributor to perugia shock under the name 'marc' for a few years now).

Crazy developments in this case: the Stefanoni / Hellmann exchange, and the Sfarzo / Mignini escalation, as well as the wonderful CNN video. Thanks to everyone who have been contributing to this discussion. Not sure if Mignini is responding to the CNN video or the CPJ letter to president Napolitano. (By the way, anyone know how open he is to reform?).

By forcing Google to remove this established blog, Mignini has somewhat declared war on more than Sfarzo, but really the entire internet and the concept of free expression in general. I can't believe that Google complied. I could see the blog be "banned" in Italy, but why should America and the rest of the free world be strangled by Italy's absurd anti-defamation laws, and in particular from a single power-hungry and vindictive individual?

Will Italy join China, etc., and start making a list of banned websites, i.e. ones that don't have a domain in italy (e.g. google.it), which it can't suppress?

If I would make blog critical of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad or Kim Jong-Il, and either of them would complain to google, would Google delete my blog internationally or just in those backward countries? Or would they not care, since it's PC to complain about these two individuals?

Anyway, it kind of gives me the idea to start a blog, not hosted on Google, called "Mignini Shock" or "Mignini Watch". The first thing I would post is the entire collection of Perugia Shock blog entries. (by the way, I saved the entire collection as PDF files a couple months ago anticipating this might happen). Anyone know of a good blog hosting site that has a better record of defending freedom of expression?
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Welcome souldonut. I was pointed to your post on Google when I complained about not being able to access Frank's site so I feel like I know you (at least a little!)

I think it is a great idea to create a blog like that. Let me know if I can help.

I will say Google assumes "disappearing" blogs are due to spam. Apparently it happens all the time and everyone who asks what happened to their blog gets pointed to the anti-spam policy. I figured that out by reading other people's posts asking why their blog disappeared.
 
Alt+F4 said:
Ok, got it, there is zero evidence that any of this is true. You have nothing but what "Frank" and Chris Mellas said. No corroboration, no court order, no notification from Google or Blogger.
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ALT,

When I posted a question on Google asking what happened to the blog the moderator answered "Another post answers your question" and linked me to the following post:

This is kind of a rhetorical question, since we already know the answer.
This blog has been covering the Amanda Knox trial for the last three years, yet yesterday it was abruptly
deleted by Google yesterday (may 10, 2011)


http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/


The reason is that the operator of the blog, Frank Sfarzo is being harassed by the local prosecutor Giuliano Mignini
and sued for defamation, since Frank has lately been critical of Mignini. This is the kind of response that one
might expect from oppressive countries such as Iran, China, or North Korea. What is amazing is that Google
complied with Italian courts to remove this blog. Frank was also beaten, arrested by the local police, as a vindictive
action.


If I made a blog critical of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and he complained that he didn't like my blog, would Google
delete that blog as well? If anything, Google should just delete it from the local country threatening a lawsuit,
there is no reason that Perugia Shock was deleted world wide due to a vindictive power-hungry prosecutor

Letter written to the president of Italy from the Committee to Protect Journalists:


http://www.cpj.org/2011/04/journalists-threatened-for-reporting-on-murder-cas.php


On the shutdown of Perugia Shock that occurred yesterday:


http://www.westseattleherald.com/2011/05/11/news/google-shuts-down-site-run-italian-blogger-critic

I would think they would not have done this if it were not true.
 
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