Ed Pentagon - TruthMakesPeace

Your off topic UA and AA "argument" was beaten in that thread. No sense in beating a dead horse. Both UA and AA were puts. You completely failed to show any contrary evidence other than your misinterpretation of the 9/11 report's sentence. The transactions would not be mentioned in the 9/11 report unless they were suspicious and remarkable. Zelikow had enough challenge to keep the report pages to a minimum, and would not mention any normal transactions. Duh.

At least this makes more sense than the OCT, that only 4 knew they would die. Still, it is against human nature to kill one's self for no reason. At least the other hijackers would want to see their last moments crashing into a building, not just standing guard over some passengers. But it makes even MORE sense that they all thought it was a normal hijacking, and were gassed unconscious as remote control took over the plane.

You speak disinformation and woo. You can put that statement back where you pulled it from. It is not even determined who the 9/11 hijackers were, except for a few like Atta. Some turned up alive. Show us a link to any of the 9/11 hijackers' "goodbye videos" which would have been front page news by now.

Also any statements they would attack, do not mean they would commit suicide to do it. Duh. I must thank you for reminding me of a major reason supporting Gassed Occupants / Remote Controlled Plane hypothesis. The hijackers would have made some kind of video, or even a note, to be found after their death, explaining their demands. For example "get out of our holy lands, or there will be more of the same" or something like that.

You know coming back in and CHANGING what you wrote to edit it so that it appears that I didn't answer you is a form of LYING. Why do twoofs constantly LIE? Oh cuz they can't handle da twoof.

The parts you put in AFTER you got your ass handed to you.

You speak disinformation and woo. You can put that statement back where you pulled it from. It is not even determined who the 9/11 hijackers were, except for a few like Atta. Some turned up alive. Show us a link to any of the 9/11 hijackers' "goodbye videos" which would have been front page news by now.

Hijackers still alive? REally? OMG. Please find just one. I'll wait for it. If you can manage to do so you would win every media prize out there.

Why hasn't al Q come out and provided the living hijackers? Or the governments of Iran? Any one of them... it would be easy.

Your arguments from incredulity and massive ignorance are showing.

I posted a link to the hijackers martyr videos. Have you watched them yet?

Better yet, have you finally read the technical analysis that shows you are full of crap yet?


Also any statements they would attack, do not mean they would commit suicide to do it. Duh. I must thank you for reminding me of a major reason supporting Gassed Occupants / Remote Controlled Plane hypothesis.
Other than the technical paper you keep on ignoring which states how incredibly difficult (read almost impossible) it is to set up your RC planes. Have you managed to read that technical analysis yet?

The hijackers would have made some kind of video, or even a note, to be found after their death, explaining their demands. For example "get out of our holy lands, or there will be more of the same" or something like that.

They made martyr videos... they were part of Al Q. Al Q posted some direct demands.

Poor Cic...can't handle da twoof.

Pwned (again).
 
The dumbest delusion in the history of mankind was the 9/11 False Flag Op, which fooled over 300 million Americans, and most people in the world, for almost 10 years. I fell for it too, for about 5 years, enjoying military contract profits. Then I started to think critically about 9/11, and question the assumptions. I realize it is hard for you, since you are active military, and your income depends on the Offishy Story. Our brave, dedicated, honorable military was misused by power and profit hungry self-serving chicken hawks who never served.
You have the dumbest delusion, because you have no evidence. You think your trash talk is evidence.
Looks like you hate Bush. Bush did serve, he learned to fly high performance jet aircraft; what have you done to serve your country, make up lies and delusions about 911, how patriotic; all without evidence.

You failed to read my oath as an officer in the USAF, you failed to realize much of anything past your hate of the USA.

You are sounding like Tim McVeigh.


What was the chain of custody of the FDRs. Was it an organization independent of the primary suspect?
FBI. End of story.
The FDR is verified by RADAR, witnesses and evidence of aircraft debris. You have nothing, everyone can have the FDR data. You failed this time, and you can't prove the FDR is fake, I can prove it is real. You make up lies, and fail to use reality based evidence.

Read the theory again, which states the hijackers had no intention of hitting buildings. There is no evidence, before the strike. They intended to land, and make demands. The hijackers were gassed along with everyone else, duped by their handlers.
Theory? lol, it is a delusional lie.

The FDR shows the terrorist pilot flying the jet, making the inputs to crash into the Pentagon, and a field in PA. You can't check the FDR due to what major problem? Can't you do realty based research?

That is pure OCT woo. Only the extremely gullible believe anyone would crash land themselves in a plane, without any stated reason, or making a single demand.
FALSE
UBL stated in the 90s he would kill Americans for the reason he stated then; you failed to do the research to understand this, you failed to listen to UBL. You persist in making up idiotic claims of remote control, and can't provide evidence. UBL tells us he did it, and you make up lies. We have FDR showing the terrorist pilots made the inputs. WE have UBL making statements of why he was killing Americans, including women and children way back in the 90s. What is your problem, unable to do rational research and form rational conclusions based on reality?

You totally failed to provide an independent chain of custody. Pilots For 9/11 Truth shows that the FDR data, just a CSV file, has been manipulated - and not very well. Check their site, and learn.
Pilots for truth can't do math let alone figure out the FDR. We have multiple decodes of the FDR. One by the NTSB, one by p4t, and one by a poster here. THEY all match! OOPS, you are debunked by your own source, who publish lies to sell DVDs with more lies. Good job you are so gullible you let p4t Balsamo 11.2g moron math master do your thinking for you. Good job there!

Check out p4t? Seriously? Balsamo waves his hands, says 11.2g, based on no math and leaves it posted for years to fool people like you, people who refuse to do the math, thinking, or research. You let others do your thinking for you.

Total woo to fool the gullible. He was on The Team.
UBL said he would kill Americans when and where he could. You call it woo because you can't find it, you can't do research. Why do you fail to find anything?


If you read Project For A New American Century, you would see this was "a new Pearl Harbor". Read it.
Again, you failed to read the material. It says for change to come in the military, an event like a Pearl Harbor would have to take place. It was an opinion, PNAC has not army save the shotgun of Cheney. You failed and referencing PNAC is a sign you have no evidence. Big mistake using the debunk nonsense from years ago.


Why do you adopt idiotic claims that 19 guys would kill themselves for no reason, after supposedly defeating NORAD with box cutters. What a RIDICULOUS story for the gullible Trusters who suck it up.
Why do Islamic people blow themselves up? I would switch religions, I would convert to some religion which does not blow me up to make a point.

They committed suicide to kill Americans, they love us so much they are saving us by killing us because we are infidels. Lucky us. You must not pay attention to current events for the past 100 years, you seem to be clueless on suicide as a method of killing others. I agree, it is hard to grasp why you would kill yourself instead of throwing a bomb, and running away to do it again, another day. Sorry, you missed the evidence for suicide terrorists, you sure do find the woo from Balsamo and other 911 truth liars, but you fail to comprehend reality.


Prove it.
Prove no Remote Control?

In the FDR for 93 and 77, the flight controls responded to the control inputs made by the pilots. PROOF!

Are you saying you can't figure out the FDR and keep from making up lies like remote control. I can prove no remote control, you can't do much more than make up more lies.

Go ahead take the FDR and prove it was remote control. You can't define how remote control works with a stock 767/757.


Even Commissioner criticize the 9/11 Woo Report, and one even quit, calling it a farce. WMDs? Closing Gitmo? No more bailouts? Bin Laden was armed, then not? How many lies does it take for the gullible Trusters to stop believing woo slingers?
UBL is armless? WMDs? Oh you like UBL, you have lost your hero to apologize for with moronic remote control, gas, and other idiotic claims. You miss Saddam, so sad.

What does this mean, you are grasping at political nonsense which means nothing for 911. Again, mentioning the political fighting of the 911 Report is the sign you are evidence free, making up nonsense from nothing. But go ahead explain how your fantasy claims of remote control are supported by the political claptrap associated with the 911 commission. Can you make up evidence from political fighting? No.

Did you roll out this nonsense since you can't comprehend RADAR and FDR? Are you 10, or really young?

There's a saying "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." How many times do gullible Trusters have to be lied to before they stop believing liars?
You are gullible, you use failed ideas from idiots in 911 truth and try to say they are reality. You have a fantasy you can't support with facts or evidence.

You can't prove anything is a lie about 19 terrorists doing 911, and you have failed.
 
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Aircraft have been used in suicide attacks against the USA and Britain before 9/11, many times, their pilots didn't radio any demands.
 
Aircraft have been used in suicide attacks against the USA and Britain before 9/11, many times, their pilots didn't radio any demands.

Nice point! I do not believe that any Kamikaze ever radioed demands before trying to fly into an Aircraft carrier.
Why not?
Because they part of a force that was at war with the USA, Gr.Britain and their allies.

Al-qada made it known many many times before Sept.11/01 that they considered themselves to be at war with the USA and western countries, that their cause was to rid the "Holy Land" of western invaders and influence and to that end they would attack, whenever, and wherever they could, targets of the countries they considered themselves at war with.

Thus the African Embassies, thus the USS Cole, the WTC towers and the Pentagon, London and Spanish train stations.

Sorry TMP, your premise is shown/demonstrated to be utterly without merit.
 
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You have the dumbest delusion, because you have no evidence. You think your trash talk is evidence.
Looks like you hate Bush. Bush did serve, he learned to fly high performance jet aircraft; what have you done to serve your country, make up lies and delusions about 911, how patriotic; all without evidence.

You failed to read my oath as an officer in the USAF, you failed to realize much of anything past your hate of the USA.

You are sounding like Tim McVeigh.



FBI. End of story.
The FDR is verified by RADAR, witnesses and evidence of aircraft debris. You have nothing, everyone can have the FDR data. You failed this time, and you can't prove the FDR is fake, I can prove it is real. You make up lies, and fail to use reality based evidence.


Theory? lol, it is a delusional lie.

The FDR shows the terrorist pilot flying the jet, making the inputs to crash into the Pentagon, and a field in PA. You can't check the FDR due to what major problem? Can't you do realty based research?

FALSE
UBL stated in the 90s he would kill Americans for the reason he stated then; you failed to do the research to understand this, you failed to listen to UBL. You persist in making up idiotic claims of remote control, and can't provide evidence. UBL tells us he did it, and you make up lies. We have FDR showing the terrorist pilots made the inputs. WE have UBL making statements of why he was killing Americans, including women and children way back in the 90s. What is your problem, unable to do rational research and form rational conclusions based on reality?

Pilots for truth can't do math let alone figure out the FDR. We have multiple decodes of the FDR. One by the NTSB, one by p4t, and one by a poster here. THEY all match! OOPS, you are debunked by your own source, who publish lies to sell DVDs with more lies. Good job you are so gullible you let p4t Balsamo 11.2g moron math master do your thinking for you. Good job there!

Check out p4t? Seriously? Balsamo waves his hands, says 11.2g, based on no math and leaves it posted for years to fool people like you, people who refuse to do the math, thinking, or research. You let others do your thinking for you.

UBL said he would kill Americans when and where he could. You call it woo because you can't find it, you can't do research. Why do you fail to find anything?



Again, you failed to read the material. It says for change to come in the military, an event like a Pearl Harbor would have to take place. It was an opinion, PNAC has not army save the shotgun of Cheney. You failed and referencing PNAC is a sign you have no evidence. Big mistake using the debunk nonsense from years ago.


Why do Islamic people blow themselves up? I would switch religions, I would convert to some religion which does not blow me up to make a point.

They committed suicide to kill Americans, they love us so much they are saving us by killing us because we are infidels. Lucky us. You must not pay attention to current events for the past 100 years, you seem to be clueless on suicide as a method of killing others. I agree, it is hard to grasp why you would kill yourself instead of throwing a bomb, and running away to do it again, another day. Sorry, you missed the evidence for suicide terrorists, you sure do find the woo from Balsamo and other 911 truth liars, but you fail to comprehend reality.


Prove no Remote Control?

In the FDR for 93 and 77, the flight controls responded to the control inputs made by the pilots. PROOF!

Are you saying you can't figure out the FDR and keep from making up lies like remote control. I can prove no remote control, you can't do much more than make up more lies.

Go ahead take the FDR and prove it was remote control. You can't define how remote control works with a stock 767/757.



UBL is armless? WMDs? Oh you like UBL, you have lost your hero to apologize for with moronic remote control, gas, and other idiotic claims. You miss Saddam, so sad.

What does this mean, you are grasping at political nonsense which means nothing for 911. Again, mentioning the political fighting of the 911 Report is the sign you are evidence free, making up nonsense from nothing. But go ahead explain how your fantasy claims of remote control are supported by the political claptrap associated with the 911 commission. Can you make up evidence from political fighting? No.

Did you roll out this nonsense since you can't comprehend RADAR and FDR? Are you 10, or really young?


You are gullible, you use failed ideas from idiots in 911 truth and try to say they are reality. You have a fantasy you can't support with facts or evidence.

You can't prove anything is a lie about 19 terrorists doing 911, and you have failed.

You're views and the swooping/hovering of your ilk are purveyors of disinformation. The everybody is an idiot refrains, the off the wall questions and requests for this and that make your intent obvious.
 
You're views and the swooping/hovering of your ilk are purveyors of disinformation. The everybody is an idiot refrains, the off the wall questions and requests for this and that make your intent obvious.

We get lots and lots of posters saying "A is true" and "B is False"

Our position is in contrast the Mainstream "B is true", we don't have to keep explaining "B" over and over again every time some new guy comes along and says "A is true" and "B is False"
"B" is accepted because it is public knowledge. supported by easily available facts and evidence.

So when you comes here to say "A is true", it's up to you to show why it's 'better' than "B".

If you want to say "B is wrong", then show it present and defend your opinion with some evidence.
 
It still amazes me that you had something within shouting distance of a reasonable theory, and then you had to add cyanide gas and explosives.
The dumbest delusion in the history of mankind was the 9/11 False Flag Op, which fooled over 300 million Americans, and most people in the world, for almost 10 years. I fell for it too, for about 5 years, enjoying military contract profits. Then I started to think critically about 9/11, and question the assumptions. I realize it is hard for you, since you are active military, and your income depends on the Offishy Story. Our brave, dedicated, honorable military was misused by power and profit hungry self-serving chicken hawks who never served.
I'm not American. I'm not military. I'm a pacifist. I still think the official story holds up and you're full o' crap.

There is no evidence, before the strike.
Note the qualifier. "before". This is standard procedure for suicide bombings, since they tend to lose effectiveness when the targets know you're coming.

They intended to land, and make demands.
Prove it.

That is pure OCT woo. Only the extremely gullible believe
Poisoning the well.

Total woo to fool the gullible. He was on The Team.
Him and all of Al Qaeda. Oh, and the Taliban.

Why do you adopt idiotic claims that 19 guys would kill themselves for no reason,
There's a perfectly good reason; they're fanatics who wanted to take their "enemy" with them, part of a religious sect that prides themselves on suicide bombing civilians.

after supposedly defeating NORAD with box cutters.
They didn't defeat "NORAD", they killed a few pilots, then gained enough time to complete 3 out of 4 attacks. NORAD has never intercepted anyone in the time the OS says the planes were in the air.
 
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Your off topic UA and AA "argument" was beaten in that thread. No sense in beating a dead horse. Both UA and AA were puts. You completely failed to show any contrary evidence other than your misinterpretation of the 9/11 report's sentence. The transactions would not be mentioned in the 9/11 report unless they were suspicious and remarkable. Zelikow had enough challenge to keep the report pages to a minimum, and would not mention any normal transactions. Duh.

You learn what a hedge is yet?

Ahhh, I see, Obviously not.

/I do enjoy the argument from limited pages though, lulz!
 
bumpie for Cic...
Read that technical report yet?

Yup.. it was INTERESTING... and oh wait. The SEC fully investigated it. What did they find again? Oh that ONE trader was responsible for 95% of the put orders and ON THE SAME DAY lost money on the other airlines. Oopsie.

So the SEC is involved. Did you contact the lead investigators yet? Didn't think so.

How about addressing the TECHNICAL report which destroys your BS claim about RC controlled jets and cyanide/knockout gasses... Oh wait.. you can't.

sux to be u.



Argument from ignorance and incredulity.
How about looking at the technical article which destroys your claim about rc aircraft. Still waiting for that. I won't hold my breath though.



Feel free. They are readily available. With research skillz as bad as yours, I'm not surprised you can't find them.

Gee.. I wish there was a compiled group of these videos somewhere on the interwebz.... oh wait.
http://www.911myths.com/index.php/The_Hijackers

just scroll down until you find the videos. They aren't hard to find. Oopsie.
Your bs about the unknown hijackers is also bs. We know who they are, where they came into the US... there is some small document about it... youmight have heard about it... the 911 commission report... Of course if you handwave it away... maybe there is some sort of independent grouping about the hijackers... if only there was... oh wait.
Looming tower
Spying Blind

can't forget
http://www.911myths.com/index.php/The_Hijackers

And there are about a half dozen books that have been published...

Maybe after you finish reading the technical analysis that shows that the jets on 9/11 couldn't have been set up for RC control, you can work on these other issues.

Of course, your handwaves on the put orders, your lying about kevin ryan and stubblebine says a lot about your research skills or intellectual honesty... but hey maybe you will figure it out.
 
Videos some hijackers made after they died on 9/11 ;)

Yup.. it was INTERESTING... and oh wait. The SEC fully investigated it. What did they find again? Oh that ONE trader was responsible for 95% of the put orders and ON THE SAME DAY lost money on the other airlines. Oopsie.
Oopsie yourself. No, the SEC found that BOTH the AA and UA were puts. The buyer made money on both transactions. That's why they were suspicious. Duh. This is off post, but you persist in this lie and disinformation, based on your misreading of the 9/11 report, and it has to be cleared up.

Gee.. I wish there was a compiled group of these videos somewhere on the interwebz.... oh wait. http://www.911myths.com/index.php/The_Hijackers
Right you are. I am spending too much time on 911Blogger and not enough time on JREF. I'm doubling my donation this year. Thanks. I listened to them, and did not hear any of them saying they were going to kill themselves. Oops on you.

Most had photos in the background of the 9/11 crashes into the WTC and Pentagon. Oops on you. Did you say they made these videos before, or after they died? :rolleyes:

Ahmed al-Ghamdi - 175 - no mention of killing himself
Hamza al-Ghamdi - 175 - shown with 9/11 photos
Ahmad al-Haznawi - 93 - shown with 9/11 photos
Abdulaziz al-Omari 11 - shown with 9/11 photos
Mohand al-Shehi 175 - no mention of killing himself
Wail al-Shehri 11 - shown with 9/11 photos
Waleed al-shehri 11 - shown with 9/11 photos
Ziad Jarrah 93 - no mention of killing himself

Seriously, thanks for the link. It supports the theory that these hijackers were just that, hijackers. Their intent was to demand the US get out of Arabia, in return for the hostages. If they kill them, and themselves, they don't have much negotiating power left. Right? :rolleyes:
 
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Oopsie yourself. No, the SEC found that BOTH the AA and UA were puts. The buyer made money on both transactions. That's why they were suspicious. Duh. This is off post, but you persist in this lie and disinformation, based on your misreading of the 9/11 report, and it has to be cleared up.

Wow, you really have no idea what a hedge is, do you?

Remarkable.
 
Oopsie yourself. No, the SEC found that BOTH the AA and UA were puts. The buyer made money on both transactions. That's why they were suspicious. Duh. This is off post, but you persist in this lie and disinformation, based on your misreading of the 9/11 report, and it has to be cleared up.
It was cleared up, they have records, they found the people who made the transactions and they were not terrorists.

You better work on your delusions of remote control, one of the dumbest claims made, almost as dumb as gassing the crew and passengers who were talking right up to impact. Did you get the FDR data and see the terrorist is flying the jet into the ground and the Pentagon?
 
You're views and the swooping/hovering of your ilk are purveyors of disinformation. The everybody is an idiot refrains, the off the wall questions and requests for this and that make your intent obvious.
Balsamo is an idiot on math issues, you want to try and fix is moronic math? Hi Ho Silver...

... 80 feet (top of pole 1) - 45 (height of "impact hole") = 35 feet vertically available to arrest descent rate of 4480 fpm.

97.5/35 = 280% (G Load required to arrest 4480 fpm descent rate within 1.3 seconds and 97.5 feet vertically needs to be increased by 280%.)

280% x 4.0 G's = 11.2 G's needed to arrest descent. ...
Balsamo waves hands and BINGO, 11.2gs comes out of thin air. Please explain how he comes up with 11.2g. Got math? Here is help from someone who knows math.
http://www.cesura17.net/~will/Ephemera/Sept11/Balsamo/balsamo2.html

You are behind, 911 truth failed on 911; why are you fooled by liars who have the goal to make money selling lies?

You have to use google with the ability to weed out the woo, you have not been doing well at weeding out the woo.
 
CSVs from FDRs corroborate the GOIRCP theory

crew and passengers who were talking right up to impact.
So you are saying the hijackers let them talk? "Come here Captain, say a few words." :rolleyes:

Seriously the time table of the calls does not show any calls within about 15 minutes of impact. That's plenty enough time to gas the crew, passengers, and hijackers, and take over the plane by remote control. For example: the theory proposes that Hani intended to land at DC Airport and demand that the USA get out of Arabia, in exchange for hostages.

Did you get the FDR data and see the terrorist is flying the jet into the ground and the Pentagon?
Oh, you mean the faked CSV files released only under pressure by the FOIA? CSVs can be made with Excel. Even so, a plane DID hit the Pentagon. It was just under remote control at the time. The CSVs confirm the Gassed Occupants In Remote Controlled Plane theory.
 
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Yes I do, and the AA was not a hedge. That's just disinfo with no source. Both the AA and UA transactions were puts prior to 9/11. That's why they were remarkable and had to be dealt with in the 9/11 report. Zelikow gave them just 1 sentence.

So the UA WAS a hedge! NICE, we are making progress! So 95% of that activity was not suspicious at all! Fantastic!

Next, go the 911 Commission documents, and tell us what you learned from reading those (hint, it tracks the purchases to subscribers to an options newsletter that recommended buying the puts as part of a trading strategy and even mentions the name of the newsletter!)

Man, Cicorp, you are starting to learn! Good for you!

/unfortunately, the whole "Zelikow gave them just 1 sentence" is a huge lie from you, of course. But hey! You learned what a hedge is! But not what a sentence is.
 
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... The hijackers would have made some kind of video, or even a note, to be found after their death, explaining their demands. For example "get out of our holy lands, or there will be more of the same" or something like that.
They made videos. Found after their death.

Were you alive in March 1997?
UBL declared war on the United States, these 19 were his buddies, UBL tell us why in his special way.

UBL said.
We declared jihad against the US government, because the US government is unjust, criminal and tyrannical. It has committed acts that are extremely unjust, hideous and criminal whether directly or through its support of the Israeli occupation of the Prophet's Night Travel Land (Palestine). And we believe the US is directly responsible for those who were killed in Palestine, Lebanon and Iraq. http://mprofaca.cro.net/binladen_arnett.html
He told us we would kill us, and he did it in 1997.

You are not current on events, you are 24 years behind.
 
So you are saying the hijackers let them talk? "Come here Captain, say a few words." :rolleyes:

Seriously the time table of the calls does not show any calls within about 15 minutes of impact. That's plenty enough time to gas the crew, passengers, and hijackers, and take over the plane by remote control. For example: the theory proposes that Hani intended to land at DC Airport and demand that the USA get out of Arabia, in exchange for hostages.
Say, how far away from their targets would the plane have been at that point, at the speed they were flying?
 
Oh, you mean the faked CSV files released only under pressure by the FOIA? CSVs can be made with Excel. Even so, a plane DID hit the Pentagon. It was just under remote control at the time. The CSVs confirm the Gassed Occupants In Remote Controlled Plane theory.

All that with zero evidence to back it up.

Bliss.............
 

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