Ed Pentagon - TruthMakesPeace

[dafydd]

I keep hovering over the ignore button...but some of the wacky stuff this guy comes up with is pure comedy.

For posterity, I'm calling Jammy-sock!

He is amusing me at the moment but my hand is edging closer to the blessed ignore button. I still think he's trolling,nobody could be so monumentally dense as that.

 

[jaydeehess]

the hijackers were just that, hijackers. They were not suicidal, and did not intend to die in a crash. This made it easier to recruit 19 or more men to volunteer for the mission, such as getting the US military bases out of Arabia in return for hostages. It makes sense they would have made at least some demand before killing themselves for no reason or benefit. The OCT says 19 guys killed themselves without identifying their cause, or making a single demand.

Of course in the normal course of things the hijackers get on the radio and begin making demands immediatly, while still in the air.

What is your opinion on Jim Heikkila's article at http://www.viewzone.com/911revisited.html

"The Boeing 757 and 767 are equipped with fully autonomous flight capability, they are the only two Boeing commuter aircraft capable of fully autonomous flight. They can be programmed to take off, fly to a destination and land, completely without a pilot at the controls."​

Ummmm that he made it all up all by himself.

The title of the article itself is in error as the 757 and 767 do not have 'software limits that disallow pilots from performing manouvers. That WAS a problem with some Airbus models and when it resulted in a few ,,, mishaps,,, this was changed. But then again Airbus is NOT Boeing.

Next there were no "high g' manovers performed by any of the aircraft. A 2 minute descending turn through a few thousand feet does not qualify as a high g manouver. In fact the only manouvers that came close are those performed by fly 93 when the hijackers were being challenged for control of the aircraft. The author's claim of 5 to 7 g's itself as being such that would 'break grandmother's neck' is also false. At 7 g's over 15 seconds will cause some people to pass out. That's about it(other than vomiting)

In fact a Boeing 757 in an incident over Iceland DID perform manouvers that saw it hitting 3 or 4 g's. Look it up.

As for cell phones,,, in January 2002 I was on a flight accross several Canadian provinces. As we reached altitude i took out my phone and dialed my home number. It rang, my answering machine picked up and I recorded myself saying 'just testing' and then let it continue recording ambient sound until the machine timed out.
NOT A PROBLEM
I would have been somewhere close to being over Brandon, Manitoba at that time. Basically in the middle of the prarie.

 

[beachnut]

OK. You have the PhD of Piloting, work for the USAF, and know Radar way better than me. Thanks for showing me that plane substitution theories are too prone to being discovered, needlessly complicated, and a dead end. So I concede that point, and kept looking for a theory acknowledging Radar while making more sense than the OCT.

This new theory proposes that the planes were on radar, and the hijackers were just that, hijackers. They were not suicidal, and did not intend to die in a crash. This made it easier to recruit 19 or more men to volunteer for the mission, such as getting the US military bases out of Arabia in return for hostages. It makes sense they would have made at least some demand before killing themselves for no reason or benefit. The OCT says 19 guys killed themselves without identifying their cause, or making a single demand.

...

You failed at one delusion, so you adopt a dumber one?

Wrong again. The FDR for 77 and 93 show pilot inputs from the terrorists making the inputs to the controls and crashing into the Pentagon and the ground in PA.

Making demands on ATC frequencies would distract from the mission to strike buildings.

Since the 19 did not make demands, they were suicide terrorists who made inputs to the plane to crash them. You failed to look at the FDR information, making your claims nonsense.

UBL already made it clear what his goal was, it was to kill Americans when he could. He told us in the 90s, you need to research better. At the second impact UBL was a suspect by anyone who received intelligence briefings, or followed the news closely. Why did you fail to suspect UBL at 9:04 AM EST, or when you saw the impact and realized it was the second impact that day?

Why do you adopt idiotic claims? Remote control was not used on 911, the FDR shows that. You can't find any rational claims, why is your google so broke and full of woo? What is your next idiotic claim?

 

[jaydeehess]

Making demands on ATC frequencies would distract from the mission to strike buildings.

Other than "Allah Akbar!", but that's more of a statement than a demand.

 

[JohnG]

Thanks for your interesting and reasonable questions, which took me a while to answer point by point.


Teams were compartmentalized and did not know each other. Standard op procedure.


Yes agents were in on it.


Enhanced RC installed by agents.


RC documented since 12/1/1984.


RC is existing tech, and has developed since 1984. Look at how computers developed since the Apple Macintosh was released in 1984.


Yes 3 more people. Not a theory breaker.


Why believe documented liars in Bush Administration?

Several agents necessary to make sure bags with cyanide and explosives got on the plane. Number of people is not high enough to negate false flag op.


False assumption that whole agencies had to be involved, to make it sound imp


Yes, plane hit the Pentagon wall.


Yes, plane hit Pentagon wall.


Any decent intelligence agency can get agents a union card.

Graphic equally applies to those who believe the OCT.


They don't traffic the elevator shafts. Agents in SecuriCom.


OCT has no peer-reviewed papers showing Al Queda did it, or even Bin Laden.


No, it is relatively simple. Basically: Gas occupants. Planes on remote control. Boom.


Some Truthers allege hole in Pentagon was too small. Explosion just prior to impact should satisfy them.


Bags with cyanide tanks could also contain remote controlled explosives, in the cargo.


Music applies better to OCT. The video ridicules missile theory. This theory proposes plane.


Explosives in plane would ensure fire ball, just in case.

OCT is an easily disproven lie.

Bin Laden was silenced, so we will never know if he was active or not.


None of the suicide bombings on your list involved 19 at once. All it would take is for 1 to wise up and decline to participate, to ruin the mission.

In the suicide bombings you mentioned, the suiciders let themselves be identified, and the motive is clear.


That is the story. But it is far fetched to believe 19 healthy guys would die without so much as making a single demand for hostages, just killing thousands for no reason, and not identifying themselves to "take credit".

From one human being to another: You have no earthly idea what you are talking about. I don't know if it's naiveté or raw stupidity that informs your opinions but you are wrong and you'll never EVER have the brains to realize it or the balls to admit it. I hope I'm wrong but I doubt that I am. Good luck on your journey, you'll need it, brother.

 

[TruthMakesPeace]

Official 9/11 Woo Report for the gullible

one delusion, so you adopt a dumber one?

The dumbest delusion in the history of mankind was the 9/11 False Flag Op, which fooled over 300 million Americans, and most people in the world, for almost 10 years. I fell for it too, for about 5 years, enjoying military contract profits. Then I started to think critically about 9/11, and question the assumptions. I realize it is hard for you, since you are active military, and your income depends on the Offishy Story. Our brave, dedicated, honorable military was misused by power and profit hungry self-serving chicken hawks who never served.

The FDR for 77 and 93 show pilot inputs from the terrorists making the inputs to the controls and crashing into the Pentagon and the ground in PA.

What was the chain of custody of the FDRs. Was it an organization independent of the primary suspect?

Making demands on ATC frequencies would distract from the mission to strike buildings.

Read the theory again, which states the hijackers had no intention of hitting buildings. There is no evidence, before the strike. They intended to land, and make demands. The hijackers were gassed along with everyone else, duped by their handlers.

Since the 19 did not make demands, they were suicide terrorists who made inputs to the plane to crash them.

That is pure OCT woo. Only the extremely gullible believe anyone would crash land themselves in a plane, without any stated reason, or making a single demand.

You failed to look at the FDR information, making your claims nonsense.

You totally failed to provide an independent chain of custody. Pilots For 9/11 Truth shows that the FDR data, just a CSV file, has been manipulated - and not very well. Check their site, and learn.

UBL already made it clear what his goal was, it was to kill Americans when he could.

Total woo to fool the gullible. He was on The Team.

At the second impact UBL was a suspect by anyone who received intelligence briefings, or followed the news closely.

If you read Project For A New American Century, you would see this was "a new Pearl Harbor". Read it.

Why do you adopt idiotic claims?

Why do you adopt idiotic claims that 19 guys would kill themselves for no reason, after supposedly defeating NORAD with box cutters. What a RIDICULOUS story for the gullible Trusters who suck it up.

Remote control was not used on 911, the FDR shows that.

Prove it.

You can't find any rational claims...woo? What is your next idiotic claim?

Even Commissioner criticize the 9/11 Woo Report, and one even quit, calling it a farce. WMDs? Closing Gitmo? No more bailouts? Bin Laden was armed, then not? How many lies does it take for the gullible Trusters to stop believing woo slingers?

There's a saying "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." How many times do gullible Trusters have to be lied to before they stop believing liars?

 

[TruthMakesPeace]

From one human being to another: You have no earthly idea what you are talking about. I don't know if it's naiveté or raw stupidity that informs your opinions but you are wrong and you'll never EVER have the brains to realize it...

If self serving Government officials tell you something, Trusters will suck it right up. You believe steel beams fly sideways 500 feet? 19 guys kill themselves for no reason, without identifying their cause, for no benefit? Steel and concrete building fall near the speed of gravity? NORAD couldn't get jets to intercept within an hour if they were not ordered to stand down? People in other countries are utterly shocked at the number of Earth shatteringly gullible Trusters in the US. But fortunately Trusters are going the way of Flat Earthers. Wake up man. The OCT pushers are bamboozling you, just like the stories of: WMDs? Closing Gitmo? No more bailouts? Bin Laden was armed, then not, etc.

 

[TJM]

What was the chain of custody of the FDRs. Was it an organization independent of the suspect (US Government)

The US Government is only suspected by truthers who possess narratives straight out of Marvel Comics and claims which carry absolutely no weight. Responding to rest of your post is pointless.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Of course the two 6 ton engines of a plane going over 500 MPH made nary a dent. Yet the nose, of ping pong ball strength in comparison, was durable enough to make it through all that section's E, D, C rings.

 

[TJM]

Of course the two 6 ton engines of a plane going over 500 MPH made nary a dent. Yet the nose, of ping pong ball strength in comparison, was durable enough to make it through all that section's E, D, C rings.

Evidence?

 

[Clayton Moore]

Evidence?

http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/analysis/conclusions/damage.html

Many reports held that the jetliner hit the ground short of the building's wall and that the ground absorbed much of the plane's kinetic energy. If that were true it might help to explain the damage to the building being much more limited than expected. But such accounts seem to be contradicted by photographs showing an apparently undisturbed lawn with undisturbed objects close to the wall.

The C-Ring Exit Hole

The wall of the Pentagon's C-Ring was punctured by a nearly circular hole. The hole was apparently made by the remains of the plane's fuselage, whose apparent impact trajectory lines up with the punch-out hole.

Many researchers have asserted that whatever produced the C-Ring hole had to pass through six masonry walls, since it had to traverse three rings -- C, D, and E. However the exterior walls between the outermost three rings did not go down to ground level, since the intervening light-wells were only three stories deep. The outer three rings were unified on the first and second floors, meaning that the only heavy structures between the facade and the C-Ring wall with the hole were occasional columns. Thus it is plausible that an engine could have passed through the three rings, missing the reinforced concrete pillars, and puncturing the C-Ring wall.

http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/analysis/conclusions/docs/trou1.jpg

This image shows the largest of several exit punctures in the inward-facing first-story wall of the Pentagon's C-Ring. Aircraft debris is visible near the hole.

 

[TJM]

http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/analysis/conclusions/damage.html



The C-Ring Exit Hole



http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/analysis/conclusions/docs/trou1.jpg

This image shows the largest of several exit punctures in the inward-facing first-story wall of the Pentagon's C-Ring. Aircraft debris is visible near the hole.

My mistake, I thought I was posting in the "Evidence" thread. This is the "pulling stuff from truther's backside" thread.

My bad.

 

[TruthersLie]

Bumpie bump for Cicorp...

Why do you keep on ignoring this? Oh wait... it destroys your bs "theory" just like when I provided links which destroyed your earlier "theories."

Ah yes... here is the technical analysis.

Cicorp... I believe you will need to admit that you are wrong (again), then then you can admit that you slandered the SEC investigators, the FBI and others in your baseless claims.

http://www.911myths.com/images/5/5b/Remote_Takeover.pdf

Can you do even basic research? Start at about page 20... hell read the whole *********** thing. Then try to put it into your tiny head that you are WRONG again.

p.s. You don't need 19 people willing to sacrifice their lives...just 4 pilots. They could have told the rest absolutely NOTHING about it being a suicide mission. argument from incredulity noted...

You also realize that many of those same hijackers made martyr videos in which they stated they were going to attack the "great satan." I'm sure someone with your **cough** excellent research skills would have found that by now... right?

 

[Grizzly Bear]

You believe steel beams fly sideways 500 feet? <snipped>.

You're free to have whatever fantasies you want, but when you bring up ignorance like this and the rest of your post, you can expect people to respond accordingly. The government lies constantly is no excuse for you to try and pass off pseudoscience, no matter how much you think it's "valid"

 

[Grizzly Bear]

That is pure OCT woo. Only the extremely gullible believe anyone would crash land themselves in a plane, without any stated reason, or making a single demand.

BTW, militants in Israel, Iraq, and Afghanistan have seen it fit to strap bombs to their bodies to detonate themselves in anything ranging from crowded buses to busy shopping centers all in the name of "Allah Akhbar"; and you're shocked they wouldn't have any qualms using aircraft to do the same thing? If you don't trust the MSM and like getting your news elsewhere that's one thing but if you are going to say stuff like this you need to have followed recent events.

Why do you adopt idiotic claims that 19 guys would kill themselves for no reason,

Because the same people whom you think wouldn't kill themselves in an attack against someone else have already done it, hundreds, if not thousands of times already. That's reality; if you don't believe it then try pulling your revisionist stunt on someone who had to witness it first hand, I imagine the reality check wouldn't pleasant for you.

 

[TruthMakesPeace]

Hijackers were gassed as Remote Control took over plane

Why do you keep on ignoring this? Oh wait... it destroys your bs "theory" just like when I provided links which destroyed your earlier "theories."

Your off topic UA and AA "argument" was beaten in that thread. No sense in beating a dead horse. Both UA and AA were puts. You completely failed to show any contrary evidence other than your misinterpretation of the 9/11 report's sentence. The transactions would not be mentioned in the 9/11 report unless they were suspicious and remarkable. Zelikow had enough challenge to keep the report pages to a minimum, and would not mention any normal transactions. Duh.

p.s. You don't need 19 people willing to sacrifice their lives...just 4 pilots. They could have told the rest absolutely NOTHING about it being a suicide mission.

At least this makes more sense than the OCT, that only 4 knew they would die. Still, it is against human nature to kill one's self for no reason. At least the other hijackers would want to see their last moments crashing into a building, not just standing guard over some passengers. But it makes even MORE sense that they all thought it was a normal hijacking, and were gassed unconscious as remote control took over the plane.

You also realize that many of those same hijackers made martyr videos in which they stated they were going to attack the "great satan."

You speak disinformation and woo. You can put that statement back where you pulled it from. It is not even determined who the 9/11 hijackers were, except for a few like Atta. Some turned up alive. Show us a link to any of the 9/11 hijackers' "goodbye videos" which would have been front page news by now.

Also any statements they would attack, do not mean they would commit suicide to do it. Duh. I must thank you for reminding me of a major reason supporting Gassed Occupants / Remote Controlled Plane hypothesis. The hijackers would have made some kind of video, or even a note, to be found after their death, explaining their demands. For example "get out of our holy lands, or there will be more of the same" or something like that.

 

[TruthersLie]

I already beat your bs UA and AA "argument" way back. No sense in beating a dead horse. Both UA and AA were puts. You completely failed to show any contrary evidence other than your idiotic misinterpretation of the 9/11 report sentence. They would not be mentioned in the 9/11 report unless they were both suspicious. Duh.

Yup.. it was INTERESTING... and oh wait. The SEC fully investigated it. What did they find again? Oh that ONE trader was responsible for 95% of the put orders and ON THE SAME DAY lost money on the other airlines. Oopsie.

So the SEC is involved. Did you contact the lead investigators yet? Didn't think so.

How about addressing the TECHNICAL report which destroys your BS claim about RC controlled jets and cyanide/knockout gasses... Oh wait.. you can't.

sux to be u.

At least this makes more sense than the OCT, that only 4 knew they would die. Still, it is against human nature to kill one's self for no reason. At least the other hijackers would want to see their last moments crashing into a building, not just standing guard over some passengers. But it makes even MORE sense that they all thought it was a normal hijacking, and were gassed unconscious as remote control took over the plane.

Argument from ignorance and incredulity.
How about looking at the technical article which destroys your claim about rc aircraft. Still waiting for that. I won't hold my breath though.

No, they did not. That is woo and disinformation. You can put that statement back where you pulled it from. It is not even determined who the hijackers were, except for a few like Atta. None of them made any such videos, or we would have seen them by now. Atta's goodbye video would be front page news. Source?

Feel free. They are readily available. With research skillz as bad as yours, I'm not surprised you can't find them.

Gee.. I wish there was a compiled group of these videos somewhere on the interwebz.... oh wait.
http://www.911myths.com/index.php/The_Hijackers

just scroll down until you find the videos. They aren't hard to find. Oopsie.
Your bs about the unknown hijackers is also bs. We know who they are, where they came into the US... there is some small document about it... youmight have heard about it... the 911 commission report... Of course if you handwave it away... maybe there is some sort of independent grouping about the hijackers... if only there was... oh wait.
Looming tower
Spying Blind

can't forget
http://www.911myths.com/index.php/The_Hijackers

And there are about a half dozen books that have been published...

Maybe after you finish reading the technical analysis that shows that the jets on 9/11 couldn't have been set up for RC control, you can work on these other issues.

Of course, your handwaves on the put orders, your lying about kevin ryan and stubblebine says a lot about your research skills or intellectual honesty... but hey maybe you will figure it out.

 

[jaydeehess]

http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/analysis/conclusions/damage.html

Although there are indeed reports that the plane impacted the ground at the base of the structure there is no report concerning how much , if significant at all, kinetic energy wqas absorbed by this contact. In fact reports and physical evidence suggest that only the port engine contacted the ground directly at the base of the building.

The C-Ring Exit Hole



http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/analysis/conclusions/docs/trou1.jpg

This image shows the largest of several exit punctures in the inward-facing first-story wall of the Pentagon's C-Ring. Aircraft debris is visible near the hole.

,,, and this demonstrates that specifically the nose of the aircraft made the exit hole? How exactly does it do that?

 

[jaydeehess]

BTW I wonder if Childlike Empress knows about this 'aircraft hit the ground' report. He/she seems to discount any such thing in other threads.

 

[jaydeehess]

Gotta love this new fallacious reasoning; that since the hijackers themselves did not broadcast demands and their cause that they did not know they were about to die.

Complete and utter fiction given that al-Qada, which took responsibility for the hijackings/attacks had been declaring their cause for several years and had declared that they would(and had in the past) attack western and American targets.

But that is inconvenient to TMP's speculation.