Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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The early press reports also stated that the broken window was in Meredith's room, rather than Filomena's. IIRC, the police spokesman even told the press that the working police hypothesis was that Meredith's killer(s) had locked her bedroom door from the inside, then escaped through her broken window. This is, of course, in spite of the fact that a) Meredith's window was not broken, and b) there were security bars over Meredith's window in any case.
 
RoseMontague said:
This has bothered me as well. In addition the information that I have seen indicates that the officer was immediately convinced the burglary was staged then they proceeded to let Filomena in to contaminate that crime scene. If there was glass all over the top of the clothes wouldn't it make sense to a least document the condition of that particular damning piece of evidence before Filomena supposedly ruined it?
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Yes: it doesn't make sense whichever way round you look at it. We are supposed to believe that a postal police officer immediately suspected the burglary was staged, yet he apparently not only made no effort to preserve the scene, but actually actively ruined the scene by rummaging through it together with Filomena.

I suspect that the truth is that this "suspecting the burglary was staged" idea is one that evolved many days after the event. Heck, even if the postal officer believed the burglary was real (and in fact whether he believed it to be real or staged), he should have immediately preserved the scene for forensic examination. I think that the postal officers were taken unawares after what commenced as a routine return of a mobile phone turned into a suspected burglary and then a murder. I think that they consequently broke many basic protocols due to their being totally unprepared for what they encountered at the cottage, and I suspect that they've spent much of the time since then attempting to hide or justify their actions between 1pm and 1.30pm on 2nd November 2007.
 
The cops in my town USA seem to ignore everything. Unlike Amanda's case where they investigate the moles on everybody's ass.

Found all types of evidence of wrong doing from my tenants. On cleaning up the apartment we rented to them we found hundreds of needles, drugs above the ceiling tiles, a letter written by Snow White to her top dwarf accusing him of stealing from his mother. We also found the method by which they entered our section of the house to rob us of $6000.

The cops ignored everything. Oh, the needles aren't illegal, he said. Just give them to the fire department. I don't care how they might have entered the house he said. I don't care about the drugs he said. He told me to flush them down the toilet.

Talk about ignoring mountains!

Amanda's molehills were magnified into mountains and Snow White's mountains were reduced to molehills. Justice is totally lacking in the world. People don't know who Justinian was!

Back to the airport.
 
There was a documentary on CNN that just aired 800 pm EST that showed the multiple holes in the prosecution case and showed Mignini asking the interviewer if he thought he was lying.
 
Interesting, but 40 minutes doesn't do the case justice, it doesn't really answer all the questions or even get into the meat of the case, it really only brushed over the surface.
 
RoseMontague said:
This has bothered me as well. In addition the information that I have seen indicates that the officer was immediately convinced the burglary was staged then they proceeded to let Filomena in to contaminate that crime scene. If there was glass all over the top of the clothes wouldn't it make sense to a least document the condition of that particular damning piece of evidence before Filomena supposedly ruined it?
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I don't think the two officers who arrived first at the cottage thought the burglary was staged. This might have occurred to them after Meredith's body was discovered but then the investigation was taken from them and conducted by others.

According to Massei Filomena was allowed inside her room (before the discover of Meredith) to point out what was missing and out of place, not so she could contaminate the evidence in her room. It was only after subsequent events happened that the suspicion of staging was thought to have happened.

As far as Filomena being allowed back in after an investigation was started to retrieve her computer it would be good to have more facts concerning that and if it was introduced during the trial in court. And if this did indeed occur what contimation would Filomena have brought to her room and how.
 
christianahannah said:
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According to Massei Filomena was allowed inside her room (before the discover of Meredith) to point out what was missing and out of place, not so she could contaminate the evidence in her room ...
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I don't think RoseMontague meant they let her in for the purpose of allowing her to contaminate the evidence. It's just that letting her in for any purpose would result in her contaminating the crime scene by definition. If she stepped on anything, touched anything, or moved anything, then she contaminated the crime scene.
 
christianahannah said:
I don't think the two officers who arrived first at the cottage thought the burglary was staged. This might have occurred to them after Meredith's body was discovered but then the investigation was taken from them and conducted by others.

According to Massei Filomena was allowed inside her room (before the discover of Meredith) to point out what was missing and out of place, not so she could contaminate the evidence in her room. It was only after subsequent events happened that the suspicion of staging was thought to have happened.

As far as Filomena being allowed back in after an investigation was started to retrieve her computer it would be good to have more facts concerning that and if it was introduced during the trial in court. And if this did indeed occur what contimation would Filomena have brought to her room and how.
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They appear to have testified in the trial to the effect that they DID think at the time that the break-in/burglary was staged:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7873702.stm

Mr Battistelli (one of the two Postal Police officers) recalled that Miss Kercher's room was "covered in blood", adding that it appeared that a break-in had been faked - broken glass was on the floor, he said, but a laptop and camera had not been taken.
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Although, as I wrote earlier, I have my suspicions that the postals might not have actually had this thought at the time, but rather they might have retrospectively come to the "staging" conclusion.

Incidentally (and tangentially), for something to be libellous, it has to be a) untrue, and b) injurious to the person's reputation. If somebody wrote something naming me definitively, accusing me of extremely offensive behaviour, and if it was untrue, then I would take legal action to protect my reputation. If, on the other hand, it was true, I might bluster for a short while about not being able to comment for legal reasons, then quietly say no more about it. Just sayin'.....
 
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babycondor said:
I don't think RoseMontague meant they let her in for the purpose of allowing her to contaminate the evidence. It's just that letting her in for any purpose would result in her contaminating the crime scene by definition. If she stepped on anything, touched anything, or moved anything, then she contaminated the crime scene.
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Indeed. And whether they thought it was a genuine break-in or a staged one, they should have been taking care to preserve the scene for fingerprint/DNA analysis - and doubly so once Meredith's body had also been discovered. Letting Filomena rummage around amidst the clothing and glass was totally against standard protocols, and letting her run back in to collect her laptop was even more improper.

As I said before, I think the postal officers - who cannot have had much (if any) experience as first responders to serious crimes against property or people - were unprepared and untrained for the situation they stumbled across, and as a result they made a number of errors (which I believe they've since tried to minimise or cover up).
 
christianahannah said:
I don't think the two officers who arrived first at the cottage thought the burglary was staged. This might have occurred to them after Meredith's body was discovered but then the investigation was taken from them and conducted by others.

According to Massei Filomena was allowed inside her room (before the discover of Meredith) to point out what was missing and out of place, not so she could contaminate the evidence in her room. It was only after subsequent events happened that the suspicion of staging was thought to have happened.

As far as Filomena being allowed back in after an investigation was started to retrieve her computer it would be good to have more facts concerning that and if it was introduced during the trial in court. And if this did indeed occur what contimation would Filomena have brought to her room and how.
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Both the officers immediately noted it was very strange that nothing was taken:

While Marsi was accompanied by Amanda to see the
traces of blood in the smaller bathroom (page 123, hearing of February 6, 2009), Battistelli was taken to Romanelli’s bedroom and expressed perplexity about the burglary (page 65) because he noticed the presence of the computer and digital camera. In addition, when Raffaele Sollecito was showing Romanelli’s room to Fabio Marsi, he said: "very strange, nothing has been taken, there’s still a portable computer and a digital camera. (page 124).
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Who was the first to bring up the glass on top of things also being strange?
 
RoseMontague said:
Both the officers immediately noted it was very strange that nothing was taken:



Who was the first to bring up the glass on top of things also being strange?
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Noting that something was strange and stating that a burglary was staged are two different things. Amanda and Raffaele thought it strange blood was inside the cottage but they didn't translate that fact into Meredith had been murdered. In fact, the whole circumstances of what was found at the cottage was strange.

Was it Raffaele or Marsi who said "very strange, nothing has been taken."

I think witnesses were recalling the placement of the glass at first instance during trial. In hindsight it does appear strange (that glass was on top of the clothing) but was it an aha moment by the police or Filomena and thus led to immediate thoughts of staging by them?
 
LondonJohn said:
They appear to have testified in the trial to the effect that they DID think at the time that the break-in/burglary was staged:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7873702.stm



Although, as I wrote earlier, I have my suspicions that the postals might not have actually had this thought at the time, but rather they might have retrospectively come to the "staging" conclusion.

Incidentally (and tangentially), for something to be libellous, it has to be a) untrue, and b) injurious to the person's reputation. If somebody wrote something naming me definitively, accusing me of extremely offensive behaviour, and if it was untrue, then I would take legal action to protect my reputation. If, on the other hand, it was true, I might bluster for a short while about not being able to comment for legal reasons, then quietly say no more about it. Just sayin'.....
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Since your wrote the bolded and underlined above in response to my post would you mind clarifying what is meant by this? I haven't any idea what you are trying to say here and I would appreciate it if you would be courageous enough to be up front about it.
 
babycondor said:
I don't think RoseMontague meant they let her in for the purpose of allowing her to contaminate the evidence. It's just that letting her in for any purpose would result in her contaminating the crime scene by definition. If she stepped on anything, touched anything, or moved anything, then she contaminated the crime scene.
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Kind of like when homeowners come upon a burglary having taken place while they were gone and they go room to room seeing what has been ransacked or taken before police arrive? Or sometimes even doing the same while police are there so the police have an idea of what was taken or done by the thief?
 
christianahannah said:
Kind of like when homeowners come upon a burglary having taken place while they were gone and they go room to room seeing what has been ransacked or taken before police arrive? Or sometimes even doing the same while police are there so the police have an idea of what was taken or done by the thief?
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It is a good point and you are correct that Raffaele said it was very strange. The quote from LJ is interesting also as the police inspector said the glass was on the floor (not on top of the clothes) but nothing was taken. As I have stated elsewhere, if stuff was on the floor near the window you would expect there to be glass on top if it was not staged. Looking at the room photo's it is insane to think that a burglar would place all the items where they appear in the photograph or that they would have gotten there as a part of a staging. The only items that appear to be the result of a possible ransacking are the clothes near the wardrobe and the cd case near the middle of the floor.
 
christianahannah said:
Kind of like when homeowners come upon a burglary having taken place while they were gone and they go room to room seeing what has been ransacked or taken before police arrive? Or sometimes even doing the same while police are there so the police have an idea of what was taken or done by the thief?
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Exactly, and done before anyone realizes a murder has occurred, thus inadvertently contaminating the evidence.
 
christianahannah said:
Was it Raffaele or Marsi who said "very strange, nothing has been taken."
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Of course in this case, it turned out that things were taken (Meredith's money, keys, cell phones).

It might seem strange that a real break-in occurred and nothing was taken, but actually it isn't that strange. Maybe the burglar gets spooked and leaves in a hurry before taking anything; maybe the burglar can't find anything worth taking; maybe the break-in was done for another purpose besides robbery...etc.

If I were staging a burglary to cover up my involvement in a murder, I might remove something from the room (like an easily portable laptop?) to make the staging more convincing.
 
babycondor said:
Of course in this case, it turned out that things were taken (Meredith's money, keys, cell phones).

It might seem strange that a real break-in occurred and nothing was taken, but actually it isn't that strange. Maybe the burglar gets spooked and leaves in a hurry before taking anything; maybe the burglar can't find anything worth taking; maybe the break-in was done for another purpose besides robbery...etc.

If I were staging a burglary to cover up my involvement in a murder, I might remove something from the room (like an easily portable laptop?) to make the staging more convincing.
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Hi BabyCondor and others,
I recall reading on PMF, before the split, that member Thoughtful recently had her house broken into and she stated that computers were not stolen, which I thought interesting.

Being a photographer with a few different camera's that I use, well I am always lookin' after them, for camera theft is pretty common. I was pondering why a camera was not even stolen from Filomena's bedroom, since that would be easy to sell, IMHO. Maybe Rudy, after he broke the window and climbed into the bedroom, did not even turn on the bedroom light and search her room for valuables, so he did not even see the camera. I would guess that Rudy did not turn Filomena's light on for fear that someone might see it from outside, especially if the shutters did not stay closed. Wasn't it windy that night?

Is it possible that after climbing in, Rudy immediately had to go use the restroom and it was while Rudy was in there that Meredith came home, suprising him?
 
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