Merged Osama bin Laden dead,

GlennB said:
I'd be amazed if Pakistan were not complicit in this operation, while maintaining plausible deniability and thus being able to put on a public show of outrage.
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But if it's true that Bin Laden had been there for years, why did the ISI not tell the US before now? Plus according to Panetta they weren't 100% sure Bin Laden was going to be there.

I see what you're saying, but I don't think the US could trust Pakistan as far as they could throw them.
 
It just occurred to me that the way ObL was shot supports the idea that the SEALs thought he might be going for a weapon. He is said to have come partly out of the room. Had he surrendered right there, unarmed, he might have been taken alive.

That he was not in full view supports a claim that he might have been going for a weapon.

I base the assertion that he was probably not in full view on the fact that he was shot in the head.

Military doctrine is very clear that one shoots for the center of body mass. Head shots are a bad idea. Too much chance you will miss.

I'm guessing that his head was the only part visible when they fired.

Don't you think it reasonable that they should assume him to be armed already considering the noise they had to have made already?
 
leftysergeant said:
It just occurred to me that the way ObL was shot supports the idea that the SEALs thought he might be going for a weapon
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Don't you think it reasonable that they should assume him to be armed already considering the noise they had to have made already?
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IIRC, the Seals apparently were given orders to shoot if he was wearing clothes (risk of him having explosives on him).
 
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leftysergeant said:
Source?
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I can't remember where I read or heard it, may have been the radio. But I have to admit, googling for a source, I can't find a single credible one.

So regarding this:

IIRC, the Seals apparently were given orders to shoot if he was wearing clothes (risk of him having explosives on him).
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I take that back.
 
The moral degeneratoin of America, the Shining City on the Hill, is complete.

Osama bin Laden won.
 
The moral degeneration of Osama bin Laden was already complete.

America, the Shining City on the Hill, has won this round.
 
JihadJane said:
Osama bin Laden won.
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7684498
 
Skeptic said:
If being found, shot dead, and dumped in the sea is winning, I shudder to think what him losing would be like.
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the point is that his cause was reinforced by this act.
he lost his life, but his death will strengthen his followers.
i certainly do not mourn his death, and , while i may have some sympathy for his cause, i vigoursly deplore his methods.
 
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JihadJane said:
The moral degeneratoin of America, the Shining City on the Hill, is complete.

Osama bin Laden won.
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Do you think these thoughts through?

What has changed?

Yes, there were some very bad things, the destruction and lives lost. (Not that those weren't bad enough.) We had some needless infringement on our rights, torture, Gitmo and the rest of the issues regarding trial-less detentions. And it cost billions and additional lives were lost in Bush's war. (But, who knows, maybe Bush would have found another excuse to invade Iraq, there was evidence he had plans.)

But all that is passing now, things are going back to normal. You can't say any of those effects of Bin Laden's disgusting lunacy were permanent. Killing him marks the end of the era. After a little mopping up, you'll find people have not changed in the way you are concluding. Bin Laden changed nothing permanently on the whole anymore than McCarthy or Hitler did.
 
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