Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[HumanityBlues]

Sure is taking a long time to validate Stefanoni's procedures. Gosh golly.

 

[LondonJohn]

http://www.umbria24.it/omicidio-mer...i-40-giorni-per-la-perizia-sul-dna/39456.html

What documents are they referring to?

I can only conclude that they are Stefanoni's source data files. This article says that they have asked to view some documents that are not in the case file, but that they have been told they will be provided with. This describes the electronic data files pretty accurately.

Zašto ne čudi.....?

 

[theRealBob]

This is a very good post by someone else on another forum


too hard for most to comprehend... and other interrogations

Here's a real life case of an innocent confessing (with some trickery of the interrogators who ignored his denial of murdering 600+ times during the interrogation)....they kept pressuring for a confession.

The entire time he was incarcerated, after signing a confession (after being threatened with the death penalty if he didnt sign the confession)....after secretly tapping conversations of him in jail and lied that they found his semen on the victim...they made it up to get him to confess even more.

While all this coercion went on,
they had evidence from the repeat burglars dna , saliva on the 12yr olds breast and his semen dna on her leg.....but still they kept the father in jail, and the confession signed papers.And now the police threaten the wife if she does not cooperate and get her husband to confess more, she too would go to jail.

why did he confess? why did he sign a confession?
the police told him he better or things would be worse. he would get the death penalty.

sound familiar?


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38173552/ns/dateline_nbc/
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Free-B...9724986?v=info

 

[HumanityBlues]

 

[theRealBob]

It's not that I don’t have lots of questions... Id like to know what the heck RS was doing awake at 6 AM on the 2nd. or why cats blood is on a light switch downstairs ....

It's possibly not true that a cat flung itself half way up a wall at a light switch. There was strangely enough also a bloody murder in the house at the same time.

We just got told by the cops that it's cats blood. Can't see it myself and it's unlikely that Rudy was wandering around the house petting cats at the time.

These are the same cops who tell us that they will not test the semen stains under the murder victims buttocks....

There is no need to, They're unlikely to be case-related...they say.
Yeah sure. I bet they have tested them and don't want to tell us the results.

I have often posted on another forum that I believe there is quite likely to be a DNA trail laced through these and other samples that show the presence of an accomplice with Rudy (probably someone nuttier than he is)

And the cops just went 's*** don't bring that up' when the DNA results came in, because the arrest and public victimisation of Raff and Amanda had already begun

 

[theRealBob]

2 things. Washing machines do get warm if you wash with hot water. Washing machines also get warm when the machine is a washer/dryer combo.

Two things.

It's unlikely to be a washer/dryer combo in a typical flat.

Stick your hand on a washing machine while it's washing.

 

[Justinian2]

Another interesting thing about the break-in at my house was that the robbers moved two lotion bottles in front of the statue of the Virgin Mary. It's as if they didn't want her to see. Or they didn't want to see her as they committed the crime.

Flashback to the Meredith murder. Guede covered the body, gave her a pillow and closed the door. He also had sex with her - as a serial murderer would.

The robbers at my house and Guede all treated inanimate objects as if they were alive.

Anybody know anything about this characteristic? Is there a name for it?

Is my wife in danger?

Anthromorphic is the term for thinking inanimate objects are alive.
Necrophilia is the name given to erotic stimulation from corpses.

Does being Anthromorphic imply a tendancy towards Necrophilia?

Was Guede? Is Necrophilia a bad sign?

 

[theRealBob]

the 40 day extension?

could be the paperwork is a mess.
more details needed the media gets it wrong so often, who nows what the reason is.

It's very likely that the paperwork is a huge pile of mis-information.

I did a post a couple up this page where I said it might be obvious in the DNA lab's papers that Rudy was there with an accomplice who's worse than he is.

I'm not saying that's overly likely. I think it's little more than a possibility.
But it wouldn't surpise me if there were multiple murder-guilt-laden samples showing it to be a screamingly obvious fact.

 

[Chris C]

Two things.

It's unlikely to be a washer/dryer combo in a typical flat.

Stick your hand on a washing machine while it's washing.

I wash clothes in hot water. Helps get the grease out and yes my washer gets warm. Heat rises. Thats with a top loader. With a front loader the washer will get warm also.

 

[RandyN]

Humanity Blues said...

"Sure is taking a long time to validate Stefanoni's procedures. Gosh golly."


Yes, I agree!!!

What I simply cant figure out is why the h..l the defence isnt jumping up and down!

I posted this on another site...Im lazy so I'll just C&P.

I think this new court should grant the extension for review of DNA right after they grant bail to the defendants. Courts in Italy normally grant bail even in Murder cases. This case shows Italian courts are prejudiced in this case against Knox because she is American. RS is unfortunate in being complicated with an American.
This prolonged incarceration while waiting for the Human rights violating length of this trial is unacceptable.

Frank over at Perugia Shock is amazed that no one complains about this issue to officials. This seems to be clearly an exception to "normal" Italian court procedure. Maybe we need to start gathering court cases that show this and send them off to the media and Italian officials asking why bail continues to be refused. Personally I wonder why the defense lawyers don't bring this issue up at every delay. It remains just another issue where I question this defense team in its failure to attack the court and its failure to protect the basic human rights of the accused.

 

[RoseMontague]

Two things.

It's unlikely to be a washer/dryer combo in a typical flat.

Stick your hand on a washing machine while it's washing.

They only had a washing machine (no dryer or combo) and had to drip dry or hang dry the clothes.

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

I wash clothes in hot water. Helps get the grease out and yes my washer gets warm. Heat rises. Thats with a top loader. With a front loader the washer will get warm also.

I used to wash everything in cold water in a top-loader, and in that case the washer indeed stayed coldish (I wouldn't swear that you couldn't detect heat from it, particularly in cold weather, but it was never so noticeable that I was aware of it).

However I've recently moved to a new place where we have a front-loader that for some strange reason does not give you the option of a full cycle with cold water, so I use the warm cycle. The new machine does get noticeably warm.

I think it's perfectly plausible that if Amanda's house's washing machine had been recently used that it would be warm. However the claim that it was warm was just yet another of the erroneous claims floating about this case.

 

[theRealBob]

It's interesting that while on the inner sill there are smaller and larger pieces of glass, on the outside sill there are only several large shards, that came from the edges of the window. They were placed there by Guede widening and clearing the hole in glass.

Quite right.

The placement of the large shards on the outer sill clearly shows the actions involved in the breaking of the window.

There is one possibility only. Rudy put them there in the midst of his progression into the room. Nothing else will ever fit, nor does it need to

I wonder when one of these courts will let an expert figure that out.

On the same note I like the photo on the Injustice in Perugia site, of the footprint on the top ledge of the downstairs window which clearly shows someone climbing up the wall towards Filomena's room.

 

[theRealBob]

I used to wash everything in cold water in a top-loader, and in that case the washer indeed stayed coldish (I wouldn't swear that you couldn't detect heat from it, particularly in cold weather, but it was never so noticeable that I was aware of it).

However I've recently moved to a new place where we have a front-loader that for some strange reason does not give you the option of a full cycle with cold water, so I use the warm cycle. The new machine does get noticeably warm.

I think it's perfectly plausible that if Amanda's house's washing machine had been recently used that it would be warm. However the claim that it was warm was just yet another of the erroneous claims floating about this case.

Whoops I stuffed up.
I'll have to stop feeling up washing machines during the wrong stages of the cycle.

 

[RWVBWL]

Hi RandyN

<snip>
It's not that I don’t have lots of questions... Id like to know what the heck RS was doing awake at 6 AM on the 2nd.

Just a thought:
Might Raffaele, being a young buck, have awoke with wood, so to say?
Put a few tunes on the computer and get it on with his new girlfriend in the early mornin' hours before fallin' asleep once again, this before finally getting up and heading out on their planned day trip to Gubbio?

or why cats blood is on a light switch downstairs<snip>

I too have wondered the significence of this.

But this also has also always struck me as strange:
According to Murder in Italy, Amanda said in her long email home to friends and family that the downstairs boyz rooms were tidy, because the boys had thoroughly cleaned them before leaving on vacation, though Stefano's room had been striped of linens, which Amanda found odd. His comforter had been shoved on top of his bed. She saw blood drops on it.
So she told police that, yes, the blood was abnormal. Also, she said, usually Stefano made his bed.*

I have never read of an explanation for this. Does anyone know what the Massei report says?

If the boys apartment downstairs was vacant, how did the cats blood get on the light switches and who shoved the comforter on top of Stefano's bed? Surely not the adopted stray cat!

From what I recall, before Meredith left to hang out with her English gal pals. she had watered her boyfriend Giacomo's 7 pot plants, afterwards sending him a flirty text message saying how excited she was to see him when he got back home. Being that I have alwys heard that Meredith was always bitchin' about Amanda's sloppyness, well I can not imagine Meredith getting cats blood on herself and then on the light switches and not wiping it off.

So like you, I wonder how it got there.
For this reason I have always wondered what Rudy Guede did after leaving the Domus nightclub that night.

In Angel Face, it states that 'On the night of Nov. 3, Rudy went out with his friends. They drank, got high, and danced. They flirted with the students, as they always did. He could block Meredith out of his mind as long as he kept busy, but the moment he closed his eyes, he saw red. He couldn't sleep. He wondered around Perugia all night'**, etc...

Bein' a guy who knows a lot of people who party, so to say, I have wondered if Rudy Guede might have been under the influence of cocaine or heck, even crystal meth the night Meredith was brutally stabbed to her death and raped. Wondering around town all night, seeing red, well that makes me wonder what Rudy did the rest of the night after Meredith was killed. Where did Rudy Guede go after the Domus nightclub closed and what did he do? Did he get a good nights sleep or did he not? He seems to have trouble doing so the next night, wondering around town all night. Did Rudy come back afterwards? Was it Rudy who got the cat's blood on the light switches and messed up Stefano's bed? I wonder...

Anyways, I too have many questions still about this case, which is why I check in daily for new info. Glad to see you posting here on JREF too RandyN, you have written some excellant posts on IIP!

Take it easy,
RandyW

* Murder in Italy, Author-Candace Dempsey, pages 105+106
** Angel Face, Author Barbie Nadeau, page 61

 

[RWVBWL]

Hi Quadraginta,
I would think that if someone was to try and stage a break-in, they too would pick what would be the likeliest point of entry for a B & E thief.

So why would someone, trying to think like a thief,
then go and break the much harder to gain entry window in Filomena's bedroom to stage a break-in instead of breaking the kitchen window?

This raises an interesting point. If Knox and Sollecito had staged the break-in, their choice of window is even more perplexing than it first seems. In their staging, their main concerns would have been, in order, a) to make it look real and convincing; and b) to avoid being observed while they carried out the staging. Now, Filomena's window meets the first criterion, but - when set against the rear kitchen - it definitely doesn't meet the second one.

And before anyone points out something along the lines of "But surely a real burglar would have had the concern about not being seen as well", I'd argue that a real burglar would have had an additional criterion that wasn't important at all to anyone staging the break-in from inside the cottage: it must be easy and quick to escape the scene if anyone inside or outside the cottage hears/sees the break-in.

I'd argue that for a real burglar, this additional criterion might make it well worth sacrificing the additional potential visibility of breaking in through Filomena's window (as opposed to the rear kitchen window), in order to have a quicker, faster escape route if disturbed. And incidentally, in this regard quadraginta was incorrect when he said that the same bottleneck problem applied to the area below Filomena's window as to the rear of the cottage:

Even if this were to be a consideration I can't understand why the cul de sac below Filomena's window would be any more attractive, not least because, aside from those woods, it leads only to the very same "narrow exit passageway".

He is incorrectly assuming that the bottleneck to which I was referring is the driveway from the main road down to the cottage's front door. In fact, I'm referring to the increasingly narrow (down to one person's width) passageway along the side of the house - past the large bathroom window and Laura's room - which has the cottage wall on one side and the retaining wall of the main road on the other. It would be impossible to pass someone on the narrow part of this passageway without coming into physical contact with them, whereas the driveway has enough width for someone fit fast (e.g. Guede....) to evade contact. Plus, of course, an escape from the rear of the house to the main road would take another 10-15 seconds longer to accomplish than an escape from below Filomena's window, owing to the extra distance involved.

In short, Filomena's window seems like a reasonable window for a real burglar to choose, considering a burglar's important criteria. However, it doesn't seem like a reasonable window for someone staging a break-in from inside the cottage to choose, considering the different criteria that apply in this case.

Well written, LondonJohn!
I bet most folks who discuss this case could not gain entry thru that 2nd floor window. But a young limber guy in well shape could. Didn't Rudy Guede luv playin' basketball? He was probably in great shape from running up and down a basketball court time and again for years, he probably could aim really well, jump really well and dunk that basketball really well. He could probably climb up into that window in a few heartbeats.

And breakin' that window? As easy as a free throw...

 

[Antony]

More interestingly this theory implies that before they broke the window they already planned to pretend "not noticing" it's broken on the next day. That's bizarre, complicated and makes little sense -after all they themselves reported the broken window to the police!

Another interesting factor about the broken window is that it is not mentioned in the first press reports of the crime, even though the press were getting their reports directly from the police.

Why would the police "forget" to mention the broken window in summing up the crime scene, and instead tell the press that a burglary had been ruled out? It rather suggests that they decided from the beginning that investigating a break-in didn't appeal to them, but hadn't decided how to spin the evidence.

 

[Dan O.]

Id like to know what the heck RS was doing awake at 6 AM on the 2nd.

It's quite obvious what Raffaele was doing up at 6 am. He was dinking around on his computer like any geek and simply lost track of the time partly due to smoking weed. This is consistent with everything Raffaele said about that night and is evidenced by the screensaver logs showing human activity on the computer throughout the night and the phone record that shows he received the "Good night" SMS from his father at 6:02 and went to bed. The screensaver kicked in for the last time that night 20 minutes later at 6:22 am.

Around 10 am when Amanda gets up, Raffaele goes back to sleep since he's only had 4 hours of sleep. He's finally up when Amanda returns from the cottage shortly before noon.

 

[Kaosium]

Another interesting factor about the broken window is that it is not mentioned in the first press reports of the crime, even though the press were getting their reports directly from the police.

Why would the police "forget" to mention the broken window in summing up the crime scene, and instead tell the press that a burglary had been ruled out? It rather suggests that they decided from the beginning that investigating a break-in didn't appeal to them, but hadn't decided how to spin the evidence.

It is often procedure for police forces to conceal details of the crime so they can verify witness accounts to ensure they are accurate. This makes the fact the 'confession' completely excluded any mention of the break-in even more curious.

Also, keep in mind what RV noted a couple months back. It has kinda haunted me since as it seems to make sense. Rudy could have broken in and burglary not have been his primary motivation...

 

[Chris C]

It is often procedure for police forces to conceal details of the crime so they can verify witness accounts to ensure they are accurate. This makes the fact the 'confession' completely excluded any mention of the break-in even more curious.

Also, keep in mind what RV noted a couple months back. It has kinda haunted me since as it seems to make sense. Rudy could have broken in and burglary not have been his primary motivation...

Actually the most chilling thought is he might have had someone with him during the break in.