Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[LondonJohn]

One hypothesis which has been offered is that Filomena's room, since it was the only one which was, A: remotely accessible from the ground, B: unbarred, and C: the only one which satisfied both A and B and was also not in a common area that would be difficult to plausibly claim went unnoticed the next morning.

Another might be that while perhaps trying to think like a thief, if indeed they actually were, they weren't particularly good at it. Most people aren't. The ones that are are either B & E thieves themselves (who often aren't all that expert themselves), professionals in the construction industry who design or build to discourage such attempts (generally the best at this), and LE officers who get to see the results of such efforts. Along with insurance adjusters they're the ones who have the most experience discerning between real and bogus scenes.

Yeah, I hear that postal police officers and flying squad detectives have a lot of experience of detecting staged break-ins. These are the guys who work hand-in-glove with insurance investigators/loss-adjusters all the time...

 

[RWVBWL]

Thanks for the answer. Good points, Quadraginta, which I will keep in mind as I read and discuss this case.

I agree that most thieves are not too bright. Many folks in the pro-guilt community seem to believe that these 2 are not very bright, from what I gather, so I would speculate that Amanda + Raffaele too would have went with the easier to gain access window to staged a fake break-in. I have watched many who debate this state that they would have broken in thru the kitchen window, so hence my question, why wouldn't Amanda and Raffaele do so too if they were to stage a break-in?

On another note, I had asked Frank Sfarzo of Perugia Shock if he had heard of any further 2nd story B & E in Perugia after the arrest of Rudy Guede, and his answer was No, he had not heard of any more, and he would have. I asked this of Mr. Sfarzo because he resides in Perugia, covers this case extensively, and because the lawyers office break-in prior to Meredith Kercher's murder also occured on the 2nd floor, afterwards Rudy was found in possesion of items from this place. Was it a coincedence that Rudy had some of the office's stolen belongings on him? And that there has not been further 2nd story B & E in Perugia after Guede's imprisonment? I wonder...

Anyways, have a pleasant rest of the day,
RW

 

[RWVBWL]

40 more days, please...

Flipp over at IIP just posted this:
(AGI) - Perugia, May 5 - An extension of 40 days was sought by the experts appointed by the Appellate Court of Assizes of Perugia to perform new genetic findings in the trial of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito

http://translate.google.com/transla...i_corte_chiedono_proroga_per_consegna_perizia

 

[snook1]

That's not good, not good at all if you ask me.

 

[JREF2010]

like many break-ins there doesn't have to be a Fort Knox mentality to it...often there is no logic and someone makes a quick decision in a matter of minutes.

like breaking into a car, there are many ways to breakin, many different doors and windows.....but to break-in is the main key.

it was dark, so this opens up even other options. i think the shutters being partially open was a key thing a burglar would notice.

especially after he had knocked on doors and ensured no one was home, he very likely threw the rock through the window to make sure.

to climb up the grating twice seemed impossible a concept to Massei, but the fact is it would takes seconds to do and very little effort for Rudy. The Defense guy in his suit and shoes jumped up in no time and could reach the bottom of the shutters.

We'll probably never know, but Massei's explanation of the window was pathetic imo. He claims the window was opened inward and broken from someone inside....and yet the glass shards are on the window sill?

I like to see some proof if theres going to be accusations, like in FIlomenas room there is very little proof only a bunch of guessing.

From the Milan film of the victim, from Rudys "caught in the act" burglary, he doesnt spend a lot of time thinking things through obviously.

 

[Chris C]

Chirs C
Yes you do make a good point there.
But the body of Meredith was not found untill the morning of the murder date.
The only way for Filomena to say that the washing machine was still warm, was that she let supper crook Rudy in the night before or just after the washing machine had just finnish.
This would place her at the time which the crime took place, in the building.
This would of not helped Mignini with his case to prove the murder of Meredith on AF or RS
Or If she went back to the building after Amanda called her, you can bet your boots or whatever? That washing machine was stone cold.
Just saying

I was just correcting him on the warm part. I seriously doubt the washing machine was warm and running when filomena arrived. Why would Knox and Sollecito wash Meredith's dirty clothes.
The reason i bring that up is because the investigators threw bloody clothes in Meredith's blue clothes hamper and then claim Knox/Sollecito washed bloody clothes. We later find out that all the clothes in the washing machine was Meredith's. Which begs the question. Why would they claim the washer was running and warm when it wasn't and why would they throw bloody clothes in Meredith's laundry bag before making that claim about the washing machine against Knox and Sollecito.

 

[JREF2010]

the 40 day extension?

could be the paperwork is a mess.
more details needed the media gets it wrong so often, who nows what the reason is.

 

[Dan O.]

One hypothesis which has been offered is that Filomena's room, since it was the only one which was, A: remotely accessible from the ground, B: unbarred, and C: the only one which satisfied both A and B and was also not in a common area that would be difficult to plausibly claim went unnoticed the next morning.

Yet another claim from the infinite series of "everything is a sign of guilt".

 

[snook1]

the 40 day extension?

could be the paperwork is a mess.
more details needed the media gets it wrong so often, who nows what the reason is.

For some reason it worries me.

What's there to do? I mean, didn't they do most of the work? 40 days is a long time. It's not good.

 

[Chris C]

One hypothesis which has been offered is that Filomena's room, since it was the only one which was, A: remotely accessible from the ground, B: unbarred, and C: the only one which satisfied both A and B and was also not in a common area that would be difficult to plausibly claim went unnoticed the next morning.

Another might be that while perhaps trying to think like a thief, if indeed they actually were, they weren't particularly good at it. Most people aren't. The ones that are are either B & E thieves themselves (who often aren't all that expert themselves), professionals in the construction industry who design or build to discourage such attempts (generally the best at this), and LE officers who get to see the results of such efforts. Along with insurance adjusters they're the ones who have the most experience discerning between real and bogus scenes.

Filomena's window also happens to be where Rudy was claiming to stand at while waiting for Meredith to return home for their date.

 

[Katody Matrass]

For some reason it worries me.

What's there to do? I mean, didn't they do most of the work? 40 days is a long time. It's not good.

Could it be they still don't have the needed data to analyze Stefanoni's work?

 

[Katody Matrass]

Yet another claim from the infinite series of "everything is a sign of guilt".

More interestingly this theory implies that before they broke the window they already planned to pretend "not noticing" it's broken on the next day. That's bizarre, complicated and makes little sense -after all they themselves reported the broken window to the police!

 

[LondonJohn]

Could it be they still don't have the needed data to analyze Stefanoni's work?

This would be my hypothesis too.

I can just imagine the content of a telephone call between Conti and Stefanoni:

Conti: "Hi Patrizia. Stefano here. I was just wondering what's happening with that DNA source data on the Kercher case that you said you were going to send us a few weeks ago."

Stefanoni: "Oh Stefano! Hi! Ummm yeah, I thought I sent that already...?"

Conti: "No, you didn't. You said you would, but you didn't."

Stefanoni: "Really? I could have sworn I did. Well, if I didn't, it must be lying around here somewhere. I know it is! I'll..... errr... send it to you right away!"

Conti: "Well I'd be grateful if you could. We're having to request a delay in the submission of our report to the court because we don't have your data."

Stefanoni: "Oh... errrr..... sorry. I'll send it straight over. Right away. It's just that I've been busy and errrr a bit ill and one of our lab assistants had a family funeral to go to and well the whole Easter break and everything....."

Conti: "I won't hold my breath. Goodbye."

 

[Katody Matrass]

to climb up the grating twice seemed impossible a concept to Massei, but the fact is it would takes seconds to do and very little effort for Rudy. The Defense guy in his suit and shoes jumped up in no time and could reach the bottom of the shutters.

I don't think it required climbing twice. Quite probably it was actually the wide open shutter that gave Guede impulse to choose that window. I'm pretty convinced Filomena didn't even pull-in that shutter before she left. In her testimony she remembers clearly opening the shutter, but can't remember closing it. Instead she excuses herself that she left in a hurry.

We'll probably never know, but Massei's explanation of the window was pathetic imo. He claims the window was opened inward and broken from someone inside....and yet the glass shards are on the window sill?

It's interesting that while on the inner sill there are smaller and larger pieces of glass, on the outside sill there are only several large shards, that came from the edges of the window. They were placed there by Guede widening and clearing the hole in glass.

 

[LondonJohn]

More interestingly this theory implies that before they broke the window they already planned to pretend "not noticing" it's broken on the next day. That's bizarre, complicated and makes little sense -after all they themselves reported the broken window to the police!

I find it wryly amusing how the pro-guilt groupthinkers tie themselves in knots with all this ludicrous rationalisation about how it was somehow important that Knox "not immediately see" the broken window - since in this rationalisation there has to (for some unexplained reason) be a "gradual escalation" in the situation.

What would have been wrong (assuming for a moment that Knox/Sollecito were involved in the murder and the subsequent staging) with Knox coming back to the cottage and finding a broken window straight away? Why does the "narrative" have to involve Knox having a shower? Or going into the large bathroom?

And, as I've said before, by far the most logical thing for Knox/Sollecito to have done (if they had murdered Meredith) would have been to either stay away altogether or for Knox/Sollecito to go to the cottage first thing on the 2nd and "discover" the body together (giving them an opportunity to totally compromise the entire crime scene and victim's body).

 

[Katody Matrass]

This would be my hypothesis too.

I can just imagine the content of a telephone call between Conti and Stefanoni:

Conti: "Hi Patrizia. Stefano here. I was just wondering what's happening with that DNA source data on the Kercher case that you said you were going to send us a few weeks ago."

Stefanoni: "Oh Stefano! Hi! Ummm yeah, I thought I sent that already...?"

Conti: "No, you didn't. You said you would, but you didn't."

Stefanoni: "Really? I could have sworn I did. Well, if I didn't, it must be lying around here somewhere. I know it is! I'll..... errr... send it to you right away!"

Conti: "Well I'd be grateful if you could. We're having to request a delay in the submission of our report to the court because we don't have your data."

Stefanoni: "Oh... errrr..... sorry. I'll send it straight over. Right away. It's just that I've been busy and errrr a bit ill and one of our lab assistants had a family funeral to go to and well the whole Easter break and everything....."

Conti: "I won't hold my breath. Goodbye."

"Disappeared" files would be a very desirable occurrence for the flying heroes. No one to blame for the "contamination". No way to retest the traces, no way to review the old tests. I'm starting to think that's quite probable what we'll see next.

That no one takes responsibility for destroyed or lost evidence we've already seen many times.

 

[LondonJohn]

I don't think it required climbing twice. Quite probably it was actually the wide open shutter that gave Guede impulse to choose that window. I'm pretty convinced Filomena didn't even pull-in that shutter before she left. In her testimony she remembers clearly opening the shutter, but can't remember closing it. Instead she excuses herself that she left in a hurry.

It's interesting that while on the inner sill there are smaller and larger pieces of glass, on the outside sill there are only several large shards, that came from the edges of the window. They were placed there by Guede widening and clearing the hole in glass.

My best guess is that the exterior shutters were pulled inwards but not closed in totally (and visibly not closed or fastened when viewed from the outside). Guede might therefore have had to shimmy up and pull one or both of them fully open before throwing the rock, but as many have pointed out, this action would have taken him no more than 10 seconds start-to-finish to accomplish.

Regarding the glass on the sill: yes, it's obvious and axiomatic that if Knox and Sollecito had staged the break-in in the way described in Massei, they would have had to rearrange some of the glass - picking some large pieces off the floor or out of the window frame, and placing them onto the sill.However, I'd think that people who had little experience of breaking glass windows with blunt instruments might more likely assume that all (or at least the vast majority) of the glass from the window would follow the direction of the projectile into the room.

In my view, only someone who knew a little about the reaction of glass panes would know that a fair amount of glass actually falls straight downwards (i.e. landing on the window sill if a rock is thrown from the outside). I don't think that Knox or Sollecito were knowledgeable or experienced enough in such matters to bother placing large glass pieces on the window sill in an attempt to accurately replicate a rock being thrown from the outside. I think they'd simply have scattered the glass around directly underneath the window on Filomena's floor.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Lord of the Files

I wonder whether we will ever get confirmation to everyone's satisfaction of what I have been saying, that the electronic data files were never released to the defense.
ETA
I was asked about the Lord of the Flies reference in an earlier message. The Beast was a dead military pilot whose body would seem to sit up whenever the wind caught his parachute.

 

[LondonJohn]

"Disappeared" files would be a very desirable occurrence for the flying heroes. No one to blame for the "contamination". No way to retest the traces, no way to review the old tests. I'm starting to think that's quite probable what we'll see next.

That no one takes responsibility for destroyed or lost evidence we've already seen many times.

This report seems to suggest that the review scientists are indeed waiting on Stefanoni's data. The article says that the focus is now on reviewing the original forensic work, and the last sentence seems to imply that they are waiting for Stefanoni to send them her source data:

Now, however, the Court of Appeal will consider the request made by the two experts who have requested new documentation in order to complete their study.

http://www.leggonline.it/articolo.php?id=119959

If so, what a surprise. Or "Kakvo iznenađenje!" as we would say in Serbia

 

[RoseMontague]

http://www.umbria24.it/omicidio-mer...i-40-giorni-per-la-perizia-sul-dna/39456.html

What documents are they referring to?