Did Pakistan Know bin Laden Was Among Them?

Dumb All Over

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Dumb All Over
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I was reading an article discussing the possibilities of bin Laden's compound becoming a tourist shrine when I came across the following quote by Dr. Muhammad Azfar Nisar, the deputy civil chief of the city.
"I am sure some hotels will be constructed nearby the house if the military allow it,"
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His quote leads me to believe that the Pakistani military holds a firm grip in the town and region. If the military has such clout as to dictate whether hotels can be constructed, surely there must have been at least some suspicion about the construction of the compound and consequent inhabitants. Am I reading too much into this? Do you think the Pakistanis knew bin Laden was in their country? Do you think the Pakistani military knew he was in Abbottabad?



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If they didn't know, they showed a surprising lack of curiosity. The compound was quite remarkable on several points.

And we've been giving Pakistan billions in anti-terrorism aid.

I'm not claiming they knew, but I am claiming they should have known. I think they were remaining willfully (or at least negligently) ignorant.

ETA: I posted this before I saw your second post. My answer is a firm no. OTOH I think Pakistan has been pretty strongly embarrassed by all of this. We could see more cooperation even without threatening to cut off the flow of dollars.
 
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I think pakistan is one of those situations where the left hand doesn't know everything the right hand is doing. I find it hard to believe that no one in their government knew where he was.

OBL is worth billions to Pakistan. The longer he remained alive and hidden the longer the US would have an interest, and a check book, in the region. I am reading articles and opinion pieces everywhere now saying we should just get out now that OBL is dead. Have the afghans and the taliban make peace and we can go our merry way.
 
As long as we're asking this particular question, I have to ask (as I always do): Did "Pakistan" know that AQ Kahn was proliferating nuclear weapons technology all over the world? I put Pakistan in quotes because of course their govt is not a monolithic entity. Just sayin', if that country could let the monstrously horrific Kahn episode occur, the sheltering of Osama bin Laden is small potatoes.
 
Let's not forget there was a $25 million price on OBL's head. I would guess that the number of people within the Pakistani government who knew about OBL was extremely small, and those that knew were powerful enough not to care about $25 million.

It still doesn't look good for Pakistan, but I doubt it was some widely known secret.
 
I think that if the reports are true and this region is really just a retirement community for Pakistani military, then I don't find any plausible explanation for them not noticing a home eight times larger than any of its neighbors with barbed wired, eighteen foot high walls surrounding it other than they all knew he was right there. At the very least, they should have shown up one day to "meet the new neighbor" and have some tea.

No, I think the obvious answer is that people in the neighborhood were hiding him. How much of this they told other people is unclear, but at first glance it seems like they conned us, took our money, and hid a horrible person from the world.
 
PhreePhly said:
Let's not forget there was a $25 million price on OBL's head. I would guess that the number of people within the Pakistani government who knew about OBL was extremely small, and those that knew were powerful enough not to care about $25 million.

It still doesn't look good for Pakistan, but I doubt it was some widely known secret.
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For the tens of billions we were giving Pakistan (for an indefinite time period), they could afford to hush up anyone who might think of going for the paltry one-time payment of $25 million!
 
Unabogie said:
I think that if the reports are true and this region is really just a retirement community for Pakistani military, then I don't find any plausible explanation for them not noticing a home eight times larger than any of its neighbors with barbed wired, eighteen foot high walls surrounding it other than they all knew he was right there. At the very least, they should have shown up one day to "meet the new neighbor" and have some tea.
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They may well have done. There are a few reports of a raid in 2003. But bin laden didn't move in till later. So you've got a house with a couple of brothers and their families who keep themselves to themselves. Thats not much of an insentive to investigate further.
 
Dumb All Over said:
By itself, maybe. However, there is also that little incentive of $25 million that has been mentioned.
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Pakistan is full of people acting suspiciously. You can't investigate them all on the offchance of hitting the 25 million jackpot.
 
geni said:
They may well have done. There are a few reports of a raid in 2003. But bin laden didn't move in till later. So you've got a house with a couple of brothers and their families who keep themselves to themselves. Thats not much of an insentive to investigate further.
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When did Pakistan become a place where the government paid attention to 4th amendment type sensibilities? If they had suspicions they'd have gone in to take a look. So either they had no suspicions, which I find unbelievable, or they for some unknown reason declined to follow up on their suspicions, which I find unbelievable, or they knew he was there.

It's a small suburb that seems to house no one buy the highest members of the Pakistani military and their military academy. I'd be similarly surprised if he'd been hiding a half mile from West Point in a mansion built near some tract houses. (With barbed wire walls and armed guards)
 
It is worth remembering that there is probably nowhere else on Earth that has suffered more at the hands of Bin Ladenism. Worth remembering because there has been a tendency in recent days to believe straight away that Pakistan would shield such terrorists.
 
Undesired Walrus said:
It is worth remembering that there is probably nowhere else on Earth that has suffered more at the hands of Bin Ladenism. Worth remembering because there has been a tendency in recent days to believe straight away that Pakistan would shield such terrorists.
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And yet what's the alternative? That he was able to easily live next door to their military academy undetected for 5 years?
 
Dumb All Over said:
Maybe so, but this rather suspicious compound seems to go beyond your everyday, pedestrian, suspicious person.
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And it may well have done but you would have found anything back when the thing was first buit and even in police states you don't generaly raid someone every time they build an extension.
 
Unabogie said:
When did Pakistan become a place where the government paid attention to 4th amendment type sensibilities? If they had suspicions they'd have gone in to take a look. So either they had no suspicions, which I find unbelievable, or they for some unknown reason declined to follow up on their suspicions, which I find unbelievable, or they knew he was there.
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Again they may have followed up on their suspicions. Thing is they would have found nothing.

It's a small suburb that seems to house no one buy the highest members of the Pakistani military and their military academy.
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Abbottabad is a growth area and has a quite a range of people living in and around it. Something of a tourist area of all things.

I'd be similarly surprised if he'd been hiding a half mile from West Point in a mansion built near some tract houses. (With barbed wire walls and armed guards)
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And you checked it out when it as first built and found a couple of bothers from rural Mississippi living in it. You going to recheck it every year to make sure that Victor Gerena hasn't moved in?

Aditionaly you've got the factor that you know it's right next to a military base so you assume that no one is going to try anything there.
 
Undesired Walrus said:
It is worth remembering that there is probably nowhere else on Earth that has suffered more at the hands of Bin Ladenism. Worth remembering because there has been a tendency in recent days to believe straight away that Pakistan would shield such terrorists.
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Pakistan has deep and often violent internal divisions. The question isn't whether Pakistan as a whole shielded bin Laden, but whether any part of the government did so. That's not only possible, it is unfortunately very likely. The follow-up question, if that's the answer, is how big a part of the government, and which part.
 
Unabogie said:
And yet what's the alternative? That he was able to easily live next door to their military academy undetected for 5 years?
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I'm sure with more details in the coming weeks and months ahead we can know more. My point was simply pointing out that Pakistanis have suffered more than anyone else at the hands of Bin Laden. The coverage of Pakistan in recent days seems to have overlooked that.

Maybe members of the military shielded him, or elements within the government or the ISI, but thousands of Pakistanis have died in the fight against OBL's ideology, and we shouldn't forget that.
 
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