I've associated with some of these people directly (AP, Reuters, etc), and know people who are court reporters. They understand the difference between their professions, a giant difference. But not to you.
Not only that, but you ridicule the very idea of someone wanting a transcript or video. I can't think of anyone at AP or Reuters doing anything but laughing at you for that, Joe.
Hazy, to address your continued insulting ad hominem attack: I worked for 8 years as an interpreter for the Deaf. I worked closely with court reporters and other real time transcriptionists.
But these credentials are wholly irrelevant because 1) I'm not claiming to have been at the event where Bachmann made the outrageous comparison and 2) it wasn't a situation that a real-time transcriptionist was likely to attend nor important enough for anyone to transcribe from a recording.
So again, what reason do you have for thinking the AP story misquoted or otherwise misrepresented Bachmann's comments?
AP is a reputable not-for-profit news cooperative with a long history. Without some evidence to the contrary, I'm willing to rely on their reporting. Why are you unwilling to rely on it?
....what reason do you have for thinking the AP story misquoted or otherwise misrepresented Bachmann's comments?
AP is a reputable not-for-profit news cooperative with a long history. Without some evidence to the contrary, I'm willing to rely on their reporting. Why are you unwilling to rely on it?
You see, these days it is very rare that one has to rely on a single, unsubstantiated news report for anything. We don't need court reporters and transcriptionists, we have this nice thing called...video.
Like it or not, you are engaging in by-the-book propaganda, including the stereotyping, attacking, taking a shred of possible truth and blowing it out of proportion, while ignoring the substantive issue.
As a reference, I suggest Richard Crossman, a British socialist and anti-communist.
Richard Crossman, the British Deputy Director of Psychological Warfare Division (PWD) for the Supreme Headquarters Allied Expeditionary Force (SHAEF) during the Second World War said "In propaganda truth pays... It is a complete delusion to think of the brilliant propagandist as being a professional liar. The brilliant propagandist is the man who tells the truth, or that selection of the truth which is requisite for his purpose, and tells it in such a way that the recipient does not think he is receiving any propaganda... [...] The art of propaganda is not telling lies, bur rather selecting the truth you require and giving it mixed up with some truths the audience wants to hear.
I've only commented that your facts are relatively weak, on which you base your stand. You can't deny that, so you try to attack. That doesn't work, though. Your facts are simply weak and they are unsubstantiated. Next week, it might be different.
You see, it just isn't possible to turn this around into an attack on me. I've neither supported or criticized Bachmann for this alleged incident. I've only noted a curious paucity of facts.
But that's often the case with progressive liberal smear tactics.
And so anything not recorded on video didn't happen?
That's a moronic argument.
Give up already. No matter how much you blather on, Bachmann actually compared federal budget matters to the Holocaust.
I hope people like you continue to defend and support her so that she gets on the GOP ticket. That would guarantee an easy win for the Democratic ticket.
[Huckabee] offered an anecdote that seemingly compared silence in the face of mounting debt in modern America to those who said nothing about the rise of the Nazis.
He recalled a family trip years ago to a Holocaust memorial in Jerusalem. He said he was comforted when his young daughter, at the end of the tour, wrote unbidden in the guest book: "Why didn't anybody do something?"
"Let there never be a time in this country when some father has to look over his daughter's shoulder and see her ask the haunting question, 'why didn't somebody do something?'" he said.
I just heard on tv, O'Reilly say "we don't on this program make a story based on secondary sources". And that's really all you've got here. You don't have a transcript or a full video. Your standards are thus lower than Fox News, whom you hate.
There is not any need for you to make a big deal out of it, and no need for you to misrepresent my statements. For you, the singular AP story is sufficient evidence to condemn Bachmann. For me, it is not. But hey, keep on going, who knows you might get somewhere not nowhere.
[Huckabee] offered an anecdote that seemingly compared silence in the face of mounting debt in modern America to those who said nothing about the rise of the Nazis.
He recalled a family trip years ago to a Holocaust memorial in Jerusalem. He said he was comforted when his young daughter, at the end of the tour, wrote unbidden in the guest book: "Why didn't anybody do something?"
"Let there never be a time in this country when some father has to look over his daughter's shoulder and see her ask the haunting question, 'why didn't somebody do something?'" he said.
Except that the quote you provided and the source article (Salon is just repeating a Washington Post story). doesn't even support what you claim it does. There isn't any reference to the debt, so unless you can come up with more, "seemingly" does not even apply. I realize the error is not yours, you just blindly repeat things that reinforce the meme that your political opponents are stupid.
Of course, you are most welcome to bring the transcript or the full video into the discussion and point to where your claim has a basis in fact.
Except that the quote you provided and the source article (Salon is just repeating a Washington Post story). doesn't even support what you claim it does. There isn't any reference to the debt, so unless you can come up with more, "seemingly" does not even apply. I realize the error is not yours, you just blindly repeat things that reinforce the meme that your political opponents are stupid.
Of course, you are most welcome to bring the transcript or the full video into the discussion and point to where your claim has a basis in fact.
Yes, that Washington Post. Always out to get those poor Republicans.
I do wonder what keeps you going. At this point you're sort of the rhetorical version of El Cid's dead body strapped to his horse: you keep going to give the appearance of actual conflict, but it's really just one side making sense and your lifeless responses.
I'm actually beginning to wonder if you just set up a computer program to respond with some variant of: "I don't believe anything without video. I also don't believe anything with video."
Yes, that Washington Post. Always out to get those poor Republicans.
I do wonder what keeps you going. At this point you're sort of the rhetorical version of El Cid's dead body strapped to his horse: you keep going to give the appearance of actual conflict, but it's really just one side making sense and your lifeless responses.
I'm actually beginning to wonder if you just set up a computer program to respond with some variant of: "I don't believe anything without video. I also don't believe anything with video."
All I asked for was corroborating evidence for a claim on a "critical thinking forum" populated by rabid political far leftists, at least in part. They derided this request.
Then you come in with another claim, so I make the same request.
You can't claim I am inconsistent.
But believe me I do understand that in generating propaganda the actual facts don't matter and may get in the way.
All I asked for was corroborating evidence for a claim on a "critical thinking forum" populated by rabid political far leftists, at least in part. They derided this request.
Right, but you have a perverse and ridiculous notion of what constitutes appropriate evidence. Huckabee is not disputing the claim, in fact, if you read the Salon article, he has deployed that Nazi parable when dealing with abortion. He will use it again.
There were multiple reporters in that room, including some from Fox News. Unless they're in on this "rabid left" conspiracy, it would seem that Huckabee really did say that.
Why don't you shoot an e-mail to Huckabee's people? See if they're denying the story. If you desire validation so strongly, that would seem the way to go. It would probably take less time to give them a call or e-mail than it will to concoct your inevitably vapid and absurd reply to this post.
Even if there were any validity in what the two guanophrenic Republicons meant by comparing the crash of civilization for budgetary reasons to the Holocaust, this could so easily be turned so that they blow their own faces off using the meme.
Do these jerks want to explain why they thought it better to let granny go before a deeath panel, close the public schools and let ther factories dump poisons in the river than to make rich people pay taxes.
Yep. On the Bachmann thing, we've got the AP story (unless Hazey is making the claim that the story has false quotes or is otherwise misleading), Bachmann's history of saying outrageous things, and the Anti-Defamation League's response (to both Huckabee and Bachmann trivializing the Holocaust by comparing it to federal budget issues).
Evidence that the AP story was false or misleading: none.
All I asked for was corroborating evidence for a claim on a "critical thinking forum" populated by rabid political far leftists, at least in part. They derided this request.
That's not all you did. You can read the thread. You weren't just asking for corroborating evidence. You said explicitly that the current evidence wasn't sufficient to conclude that Bachmann compared federal budget issues to the Holocaust. You said it wasn't enough for you.
And you continue to evade the question I've asked. While you haven't explicitly claimed that the AP story is false or misleading, for it not to be sufficient, you'd have to believe it was false or misleading. So do you believe it was false or misleading? If so, where is your evidence? If not, then why isn't it enough?
.....
Why don't you shoot an e-mail to Huckabee's people? See if they're denying the story. If you desire validation so strongly, that would seem the way to go.....
Because the burden of proof is not on me, but you, indirectly, because the article you cite does not support it's own conclusion with evidence. The phrase "seemingly" is not supported by the facts provided.
He spoke mostly about how he had come to Pittsburgh to "celebrate America and celebrate its values" - including God, family, and a Second Amendment meant to safeguard freedom, not just hunting and target-shooting.
But he suggested that the next election would determine the future of the country, by telling a story about a comment his daughter wrote in a guest book after his family visited a Holocaust memorial in Israel years ago.
"Why didn't somebody do something?" Huckabee said she wrote.
"Today, you will not find a spunkier activist than my daughter, and I don't worry about her but I sometimes worry about us," Huckabee said, referring to conservatives who don't mobilize fully in national elections and for other political causes. "We cannot afford to be a generation that leaves our children with a huge debt and a very erosion of our values."
Thank you for at least trying and not stubbornly defending idiocy.
You have a little problem. You've taken separate paragraphs, and joined them into one to imply continuity which was not in the kansas city article.
That's called "making things UP".
Here is the excerpt without your made up changes.
But he suggested that the next election would determine the future of the country, by telling a story about a comment his daughter wrote in a guest book after his family visited a Holocaust memorial in Israel years ago.
"Why didn't somebody do something?" Huckabee said she wrote.
"Today, you will not find a spunkier activist than my daughter, and I don't worry about her but I sometimes worry about us," Huckabee said, referring to conservatives who don't mobilize fully in national elections and for other political causes. "We cannot afford to be a generation that leaves our children with a huge debt and a very erosion of our values."
It's an article, not a transcript. There's nothing in the speech, for example, that says he is referring to Republicans who don't mobilize for political action. It seems to me that "us" he's worried about is our generation (that is, the one after the Greatest Generation--generally referred to as the Baby Boomers).
Here's a video of the end of that speech.
In it Huckabee does indeed compare the Holocaust to leaving large debt. He does it pretty much the same way Bachmann did by comparing asking the question, "Why didn't somebody do something?" about both things. While he specifically mentions the "huge debt" he also mentions the "very erosion of the freedoms [not values] that our founders and our fathers died and gave us so valiantly." So I understand the comparison isn't just from the Holocaust to the debt alone. But it is the only one mentioned with any specificity (or grammatical clarity--I don't think our fathers could have "died" us the "very erosion of freedoms", nor do I think he meant that they gave us the erosion of freedoms).
At any rate, what's going on today is presented as a parallel. He's suggesting that the actions of current Republicans will prevent something akin to the Holocaust that would otherwise happen.
That's why the ADL spoke out against him. The kinds of issues he's referring to are the kinds that are at issue in pretty much every election. He's trivializing the Holocaust by bringing it into what is basically an ideological difference of opinions between partisans in the U.S. It also, by implication, suggests that those who disagree or are working for other ways of handling the federal budget are like the people who caused or at least allowed the Holocaust to happen.
You know, Hitler left a trail of trash across the border when he invaded Poland. I'm not saying litterers are the same as Hitler. I'm just saying thery're both bad, ya know.
You seem to be saying the current economic crisis is no more than the stuff in pretty much every election.
And that's pretty much delusional.
I guess though, if you were thinking about certain moments in time, in Argentina, Chile, Mexico, Greece, Germany, or certain other counties, then you could be right....the current issues in the US are pretty much standard fare.
...we cannot afford to be a generation that leaves our children with nothing but a huge debt and the very erosion of the freedoms that our founders and our fathers died and gave us so valiantly and that's why I say let there never be a time in this country when some father has to look over his daughter's shoulder and see her ask this haunting question "why didn't somebody do something" because in this room we are the somebodies and we will do something to preserve this great American heritage....
There is simply no direct or indirect assertion or claim of similitude between the Holocaust and the debt or erosion of freedoms mentioned. I guess you can claim an allusion of similitude, if you like. That's stretching two rubber bands tied together about as far as they go.
The allusion is to the Greatest Generation and their behavior and actions, versus ours. The only way that daughter could have had the moving experience, was by the actions of that generation.
Your paragraph doesn't make grammatical sense in places and I think you mentioned not really understanding what he was trying to get at. Here is what you said:
In it Huckabee does indeed compare the Holocaust to leaving large debt. He does it pretty much the same way Bachmann did by comparing asking the question, "Why didn't somebody do something?" about both things. While he specifically mentions the "huge debt" he also mentions the "very erosion of the freedoms [not values] that our founders and our fathers died and gave us so valiantly." So I understand the comparison isn't just from the Holocaust to the debt alone. But it is the only one mentioned with any specificity (or grammatical clarity--I don't think our fathers could have "died" us the "very erosion of freedoms", nor do I think he meant that they gave us the erosion of freedoms).
Could it be claimed that Huckabee should not have mentioned the incident with his daughter for reasons of political correctness, sensitivity, or simply because someone might have misconstrued it? Yeah, sure. Sort of along the lines of "don't-mention-Obama-plays-basketball-that's-racist" bs.
Now let us go to the original article brought in by Tranewreck, commented on by me and then referenced to a slightly more detailed summary by Dorian Grey: I recap:
Here is the excerpt without your made up changes. But he suggested that the next election would determine the future of the country, by telling a story about a comment his daughter wrote in a guest book after his family visited a Holocaust memorial in Israel years ago.
"Why didn't somebody do something?" Huckabee said she wrote.
"Today, you will not find a spunkier activist than my daughter, and I don't worry about her but I sometimes worry about us," Huckabee said, referring to conservatives who don't mobilize fully in national elections and for other political causes."We cannot afford to be a generation that leaves our children with a huge debt and a very erosion of our values."
I have bolded in red the part where the full content and intent of Huckabee's speech was left out. From the article as written, there does indeed appear to be a direct connection between the Holocaust, and the debt. That's simply because the part of the speech referencing the "greatest generation" was left out.
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