The downside of dependence

TFian said:
Actually I've made plenty of honest attempts to respond to people's criticisms (which rarely have to do with what Greer is actually saying), I just haven't responded to the people on my ignore list. As for Sword of Allah or whatever, I've responded in the past in which he hand waved me away, and I didn't feel like making this thread into a "nuclear" thread/debate.
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Well, this does have to do with energy, does it not? Perhaps you can address it to me, as I'm not biased in favor of nuclear.
 
Mark6 said:
No, TFian is a bit different. He is predicting the demise of entire world.
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Ah ah, the human race, actually. You see, once humans are gone the blessed Earth Mother and her other creatures will recolonize the planet, preferably ones not as ****** and worthless as humans.
 
TFian said:
Sure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_uranium
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This is hilarious because there is a wide range of pessimism to optimism in this area. The article basically refutes the fearmongering. If you go to that article on the pessimistic side, Meacher is a 9/11 truther! Energy Watch Group is one guy, a Green party member from Germany! van Leeuwen study is extremely controversial! Vance, well, I'll give you Vance, you desperately need some weight on your side. With breeder reactors it's pretty much unlimited.

So really, unless you've got some stuff on the planet Nibiru to scare us about, I think you're tapped out.
 
Sword_Of_Truth said:
BTW, TFian... I left a comment in another thread that you appear to have abandoned. I'd be interested in hearing your comments on it. Especially since the topic of this thread is so close to the topic of your last thread that it appears to be redundant.
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http://www.oxfordresearchgroup.org.uk/publications/briefing_papers/pdf/energyfactsheet4.pdf

"Jan Willem Storm van Leeuwen, an independent analyst with Ceedata Consulting, contends that supplies of the high-grade uranium ore required to fuel nuclear power generation will, at current levels of consumption, last to about 2034. Afterwards, the cost of energy to extract the uranium will exceed the price the electric power provided."
 
Joey McGee said:
Ooo Ooo! I am interested in it! That is a great post. I couldn't have said it better myself.
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Ha, well thank you. To be honest when I first heard the title "Archdruid" I was (obviously) suspicious from the start that there was something..well, underneath all this verbose rhetoric/musings. In all fairness, Greer does write a good article (blog post?) now and then, and he has some interesting ideas, but overall, his posts, and presuppositions, are not supported by any empirical evidence, and he seems to have a problem with the concept of empirical evidence to begin with.

Joey McGee said:
That's it in a nutshell! Hey maybe the Grandmaster of Tarot drew the death card when he read the Cards for the future of the earth. Perhaps this is why he doesn't source anything he writes about and misunderstands his opponents. He knows the future and he knows what they are really thinking.
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I always figured he was more of a DnD type ;) But seriously, yeah, it's hard to take a guy seriously who openly admits to being a professional tarot card reader...
 
TFian said:
http://www.oxfordresearchgroup.org.uk/publications/briefing_papers/pdf/energyfactsheet4.pdf

"Jan Willem Storm van Leeuwen, an independent analyst with Ceedata Consulting, contends that supplies of the high-grade uranium ore required to fuel nuclear power generation will, at current levels of consumption, last to about 2034. Afterwards, the cost of energy to extract the uranium will exceed the price the electric power provided."
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So what, that study was refuted by others plus he is in the minority of people working on this area. That study has been dragged around the world by anti-nuclear groups for years! It's convincing as many people today as it was then!

It is clearly questionable if Storm van Leeuwen, can be uncritically relied on in matters involving such broad judgements. He is not a nuclear scientist or a resource economist, indeed it is not clear if Storm Van Leeuwen has ever published a paper on Uranium resources in a peer reviewed journal.
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I am shocked.

Wow real science on uranium.
 
TFian said:
http://www.oxfordresearchgroup.org.uk/publications/briefing_papers/pdf/energyfactsheet4.pdf

"Jan Willem Storm van Leeuwen, an independent analyst with Ceedata Consulting, contends that supplies of the high-grade uranium ore required to fuel nuclear power generation will, at current levels of consumption, last to about 2034. Afterwards, the cost of energy to extract the uranium will exceed the price the electric power provided."
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He's talking about U-235. My post already dealt with this. I knew you would attempt to play this card, which is why I cunningly avoided any mention of U-235.

Sword_Of_Truth said:
The breaking of a hydro-carbon bond releases between 3 and 4 electron volts.

The fissioning of a U-233 or Pu-239 nuclei releases 60 million to 80 million electron volts.

Our supplies of Th-232 and U-238 effectively are unlimited.

It sucks, I know (only for you).
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Do you understand the difference between U-235, Th-232 and U-238?
 
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Joey McGee said:
This is hilarious because there is a wide range of pessimism to optimism in this area. The article basically refutes the fearmongering. If you go to that article on the pessimistic side, Meacher is a 9/11 truther! Energy Watch Group is one guy, a Green party member from Germany! van Leeuwen study is extremely controversial! Vance, well, I'll give you Vance, you desperately need some weight on your side. With breeder reactors it's pretty much unlimited.

So really, unless you've got some stuff on the planet Nibiru to scare us about, I think you're tapped out.
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To be fair, Whether Meacher is a 9/11 truther or not is immaterial to the subject at hand. I could be a devout believer in space aliens from Alpha Centauri will ascend me to a heaven made entirely of cheese, but if I say the moon orbits the earth, it doesn't change the factual basis of that statement. What is more important is if Meacher has the appropriate background to make such a claim.

Clearly, the Green Party member is going to be biased, so that's probably dismissible.

As for Leeuwen, I've never heard of him, or his study (or the controversy thereof), but in general, it's kind of lazy just to link to a wiki article, especially from Wikipedia which does a decent job at staying impartial (So yeah TFian, you have to do better than that.)
 
JadeStonesFromSaturn said:
Ha, well thank you. To be honest when I first heard the title "Archdruid" I was (obviously) suspicious from the start that there was something..well, underneath all this verbose rhetoric/musings.
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Word. I started reading his post and my brain started to melt.

The thing about skeptics is we like to build up facts and solid models of reality our minds. If you're a druid/Kabbalist/Tarot/O.T.O./godknowswhat you build a reality of the world using concepts. Occult concepts! Archtypes, earth spirit stuff. So this is how you view the world, as concepts relating, not realities relating.

Therefore when I catch an author using all concept relativity, I know they are a crank, and stop reading and check their background (woo, political crank, pseudoscience, the mark is the same) The cranks are the only people left doing this. No one else in society talks like this because our brains are in reality not permanently pickled by the altered states of the occult.
In all fairness, Greer does write a good article (blog post?) now and then, and he has some interesting ideas, but overall, his posts, and presuppositions, are not supported by any empirical evidence, and he seems to have a problem with the concept of empirical evidence to begin with.
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Right, he's not talking about palpable, understandable concepts, he's glorifying his intuition and tricking himself into feigning profundity.
I always figured he was more of a DnD type ;) But seriously, yeah, it's hard to take a guy seriously who openly admits to being a professional tarot card reader...
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He's woo as they come. He wrote "Atlantis: Ancient Legacy, Hidden Prophecy" Yeah like anyone gives a **** about your thoughts on planet earth!
 
Joey McGee said:
He's woo as they come. He wrote "Atlantis: Ancient Legacy, Hidden Prophecy" Yeah like anyone gives a **** about your thoughts on planet earth!
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Here's a review I found for the book

Well, maybe the fabled lost continent has not been definitively found or bobbed back to the surface from the ocean's depths.....but the BEST book of the topic has, alas, surfaced! After book upon book riddled with wild speculation and sometimes thoroughly absurd notions regarding the real riddle of Atlantis, Mr. Greer has given us a no-nonsense, crystal-clear, effectively written history of this Mystery from its first mention by Plato on through the centuries and its myriad incarnations unto the present day...and to the startling conclusion that we, ourselves, NOW...may be inhabitants of Atlantis. We....may be the Atlanteans! The circle may be about to close as past becomes present. Anyway - forget all of the other books and buy this one which surpasses all previous efforts in elucidating this more-important-than-we-may-know Enigma. Thank you, Mr. Greer for making all Atlantean matters Clear!
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'

Lol wut?

To be fair to Greer, it doesn't seem like from what I'm reading about it that he's actually proclaiming "Atlantis" was real, at least in the mythological sense most people make it out to be. He seems to have written a book as an allegory to what he perceives to be the predicament and fate of "Industrial civilization", which is kind of disingenuous as that's not what it's marketed as it seems.
 
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TFian said:
I knew you would try that Thorium nonsense on me, which is why I've been ignoring you.
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I'm boggled. You come here posting stuff that most people are going to disagree with, they take the time to show you an honest rebuttal, and you're ignoring them? Why do you come here, to recruit? Does the resentment of being rejected constantly for your ideas cause you to struggle on in this manner? I fail to see any possible benefit to anyone.
 
TFian said:
I knew you would try that Thorium nonsense on me, which is why I've been ignoring you.
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We know how to turn Th-232 into U-233.

We know how much energy is released when a nucleus of U-233 is fissioned.

We know exactly how to build facilities to do this (Oak Ridge National Laboratory's Molten Salt Reactor Experiment ran successfully for 5 years).

We know roughly how much Th-232 is available in the Earths crust.

We know, from the above numbers, how long the Th-232 will last if we use it to replace all of our energy production.

We know that it will last roughly thirty-five thousand years (give or take a couple thousand years).

This is "nonsense" to you?
 
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