Bachmann cranks the hyperbole knob to 11

[mhaze]

So the OP is incorrect then. That's the problem I have with making the leap you make - you're putting words in her mouth, then criticize her for saying the thing you imagined. Classic strawman.

Well, you are saying it better than I was. But my point was a bit more troubling.....that mocking someone who is asking what future generations will think of this reckless spending being done ... by those who are mocking is quite over the top.

Traditionally, the liberal view has been one of at least on the surface, compassion and egalitarianism. But we are seeing here quite the reverse, a huge grab of wealth from the kids, and a mean spirited, mocking attitude along with that.

That's not going to predispose those kids to think a liberal is anything but an outright thief.

I'm just curious what Joe thinks about that.

 

[iknownothing]

I'm not seeing it. Really, I'm not. The questioning is what she is comparing. Not the holocaust itself. She states this clearly. You think a presidential hopeful would outright compare taxes to the holocaust?

Then why did she bring up the Holocaust?

If all she wanted to talk about was the questioning, she could have brought up why no one (or very few people) were questioning the housing bubble before it broke, or the safety of savings & loans back before they started falling apart. You know, something economic?

She chose her words, and the implication is clear.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Traditionally, the liberal view has been one of at least on the surface, compassion and egalitarianism. But we are seeing here quite the reverse, a mean spirited taking from the kids growing up.

That's not going to predispose them to think a liberal is anything but a thief.

I haven't noticed anybody on either side of the political spectrum suggest stopping Social Security and Medicare. I'm 34. I pay into both but am unlikely to get anything out of either. Why doesn't that count as theft? Because I'm not a future generation, but a current one?

And I'd be happy to pay into both programs if I were guaranteed they, or something like them, would be there for me when I need it. Not reduced benefits, or "we ran out of money in 2030", either.

 

[Jekyll's Guest]

What a crazy woman. I haven't seen such a ridiculous comparison since the Holocaust.

 

[mhaze]

I haven't noticed anybody on either side of the political spectrum suggest stopping Social Security and Medicare. I'm 34. I pay into both but am unlikely to get anything out of either. Why doesn't that count as theft? Because I'm not a future generation, but a current one?

And I'd be happy to pay into both programs if I were guaranteed they, or something like them, would be there for me when I need it. Not reduced benefits, or "we ran out of money in 2030", either.

Well, yeah if you are 34, you can forget it. You'll pay and get nothing.

So I think the phrase "future generations" is misleading.

I'm not even sure this is a "democratic or republican" issue but more of a 30 years problem in the making, but to be mocking those who bring up it's seriousness....

 

[TraneWreck]

I haven't noticed anybody on either side of the political spectrum suggest stopping Social Security and Medicare. I'm 34. I pay into both but am unlikely to get anything out of either. Why doesn't that count as theft? Because I'm not a future generation, but a current one?

And I'd be happy to pay into both programs if I were guaranteed they, or something like them, would be there for me when I need it. Not reduced benefits, or "we ran out of money in 2030", either.

Well, yeah if you are 34, you can forget it. You'll pay and get nothing.

So I think the phrase "future generations" is misleading.

I'm not even sure this is a "democratic or republican" issue but more of a 30 years problem in the making, but to be mocking those who bring up it's seriousness....

Let's lay a bet. TragicMonkey gets both.

The only way it won't happen is if the system fundamentally changes and an equivalent service is provided: ie, no more medicare, but universal health care that serves the same function.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Let's lay a bet. TragicMonkey gets both.

The only way it won't happen is if the system fundamentally changes and an equivalent service is provided: ie, no more medicare, but universal health care that serves the same function.

That would be nice, but every attempt to even get close to universal health care is blown out of the water. And the current system gets cut after cut.

However, a badly funded healthcare system with horrible problems does not equal, even in analogy, the frickin' Holocaust. That's like hearing someone with a canker sore complain to the Stage IV cancer victim about their health problems.

 

[mhaze]

Let's lay a bet. TragicMonkey gets both.

The only way it won't happen is if the system fundamentally changes and an equivalent service is provided: ie, no more medicare, but universal health care that serves the same function.

Your delusions as to prospects of positive outcomes nonwithstanding, they presuppose action toward a serious problem. So, thus, you agree with me when I said....

I'm not even sure this is a "democratic or republican" issue but more of a 30 years problem in the making, but to be mocking those who bring up it's seriousness....

 

[TragicMonkey]

but to be mocking those who bring up it's seriousness....

Because it's nowhere near as serious as suggested by mentioning the Holocaust. It's the difference between a forest fire and an extinction-level meteorite strike, between the old lady who cut you off on the highway and the man who kills your parents, between having the flu and having AIDs. Both are bad things, but one is so much worse it's silly to even bring up the other one in the same context. It makes whatever you're saying ridiculous because of the huge disproportion.

 

[leftysergeant]

I'm not seeing it. Really, I'm not. The questioning is what she is comparing. Not the holocaust itself. She states this clearly. You think a presidential hopeful would outright compare taxes to the holocaust?

Bolding mine.

Were she mentally well, no, but we are talking about Bachman. She's nuts and not too bright, you might have noticed.

Not that I consider most of the currently-serving Republicons from that part of the country to have all their headbolts torqued properly.

 

[Ausmerican]

I'm not seeing it. Really, I'm not. The questioning is what she is comparing. Not the holocaust itself. She states this clearly. You think a presidential hopeful would outright compare taxes to the holocaust?

Then what of this?

"I tell you this story because I think in our day and time, there is no analogy to that horrific action," she said, referring to the Holocaust. "But only to say, we are seeing eclipsed in front of our eyes a similar death and a similar taking away. It is this disenfranchisement that I think we have to answer to."

If that is not comparison, what is it?

 

[Nursedan]

Then what of this?

"I tell you this story because I think in our day and time, there is no analogy to that horrific action," she said, referring to the Holocaust. "But only to say, we are seeing eclipsed in front of our eyes a similar death and a similar taking away. It is this disenfranchisement that I think we have to answer to."

If that is not comparison, what is it?

Totally agree it's a poor choice of words, but I'm not seeing an overt comparison. I think if she wanted to compare the holocaust to our taxes today she would've overtly done so.

She's a politician, not a monster.

 

[leftysergeant]

If that is not comparison, what is it?

Psychotic delerium?

 

[Ausmerican]

Totally agree it's a poor choice of words, but I'm not seeing an overt comparison. I think if she wanted to compare the holocaust to our taxes today she would've overtly done so.

She's a politician, not a monster.

"a similar death and a similar taking away".
That would seem to me to be the very essence of comparison, calling two things similar.

 

[mhaze]

Totally agree it's a poor choice of words, but I'm not seeing an overt comparison. I think if she wanted to compare the holocaust to our taxes today she would've overtly done so.

She's a politician, not a monster.

Not having a full transcript or video, I suggest that the evidence isn't adequate, but adequate evidence would be contrary to the aims of propagandists, who seek to smear Backman any way possible.

I only mean to suggest, that mocking her and her comments relating to the passing of ridiculous debt to future generations by mindless, clueless progressives of the present, might be counter productive.

 

[TragicMonkey]

The whole "eclipse" thing just creates confusion. When something is "eclipsed", it is rendered less significant than the thing eclipsing it. Is she saying that the Holocaust is eclipsed by government program failings? Or is she saying that government program failings are eclipsed by the Holocaust? That's why I wondered what she thinks she thought she meant, because that whole phrase is confusing and garbled in meaning.

Either someone wrote a bad speech, or she misread it badly. The sentence makes little sense at all. "Eclipsed in front of our own eyes" doesn't go with the rest of the remark at all, unless she really is comparing government program failings to the Holocaust. It could even be a whatchamacallit, a lacuna, where she skipped a line and went on reading. Or maybe she is that crazy and badly-spoken. One would best judge that by comparing her past speeches and seeing if she's always prone to hyperbole and/or garbling.

 

[Nursedan]

"a similar death and a similar taking away".
That would seem to me to be the very essence of comparison, calling two things similar.

Fair enough. And perhaps my bias is sneaking in, too. The full context of the video/audio would help. Judging someone based on a sound bite is usually a bad idea, I think.

 

[TragicMonkey]

I only mean to suggest, that mocking her and her comments relating to the passing of ridiculous debt to future generations by mindless, clueless progressives of the present, might be counter productive.

Not entirely. If she is a wacko, idiot, or delusional fool, then her assistance in identifying and combating serious social and political problems is likely to cause more problems than it would ameliorate current ones. Mockery of her speech might then be productive by helping remove somebody dangerously incompetent from an opportunity of doing harm.

Mockery would only be counter-productive if the person is being mocked unfairly, and could actually produce something. That is being questioned.

 

[leftysergeant]

I only mean to suggest, that mocking her and her comments relating to the passing of ridiculous debt to future generations by mindless, clueless progressives of the present, might be counter productive.

I think it was pretty mindless and totally sleazy to borrow money for a war and then refuse to pay for it out of the pockets of this generation of war profiteers because the rich "needed" tax relief.

Why isn't Batty Bachmann complaining about the Shrub's policies, too.

 

[Nursedan]

The whole "eclipse" thing just creates confusion. When something is "eclipsed", it is rendered less significant than the thing eclipsing it. Is she saying that the Holocaust is eclipsed by government program failings? Or is she saying that government program failings are eclipsed by the Holocaust? That's why I wondered what she thinks she thought she meant, because that whole phrase is confusing and garbled in meaning.

Either someone wrote a bad speech, or she misread it badly. The sentence makes little sense at all. "Eclipsed in front of our own eyes" doesn't go with the rest of the remark at all, unless she really is comparing government program failings to the Holocaust. It could even be a whatchamacallit, a lacuna, where she skipped a line and went on reading. Or maybe she is that crazy and badly-spoken. One would best judge that by comparing her past speeches and seeing if she's always prone to hyperbole and/or garbling.

It appeared to me after watching the video clip that she was answering a question, which was why she chose her words so poorly. Can't embed a video here at work but I'm sure it's on Youtube.