Bachmann cranks the hyperbole knob to 11

[mhaze]

And even if I were (or anyone else was), it would still not be reasonable to compare that to imprisoning, starving and gassing to death people by the millions for an overtly racist regime.

It's okay, Joe. I really didn't expect you to answer my question.

and this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow, and the planet began to heal.....

wait...no...the guy that said that was......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLDy_BYum1o&NR=1

 

[Puppycow]

"I tell you this story because I think in our day and time, there is no analogy to that horrific action," but then she goes ahead and makes an analogy anyway.

 

[mhaze]

"I tell you this story because I think in our day and time, there is no analogy to that horrific action," but then she goes ahead and makes an analogy anyway.

But did she?

The fact that two things are in the speech does not mean they are connected. How do you know those comments are not separated by ten minutes and in differing context?

Seems that there is a burden of proof issue here...the only evidence offered is a brief AP story.

Oops....sorry I forgot....continue with the unabashed liberal smear tactics....I was just having, you know, one of those moments of mental weakness.

Back to your doublethink. Where were we?

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

It's okay, Joe. I really didn't expect you to answer my question.

I think your question is a loaded question in that it assumes spending is what will cause future generations great hardship. It also assumes that it's reasonable to compare asking questions about what I'm doing now to asking questions about what people did in Germany during the Holocaust.

So no, I don't think your question deserves an answer.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

The fact that two things are in the speech does not mean they are connected. How do you know those comments are not separated by ten minutes and in differing context?

Seems that there is a burden of proof issue here...the only evidence offered is a brief AP story.

So here's the evidence on the side that she did indeed make this comparison:

In a speech to New Hampshire Republicans, Bachmann recounted learning about a horrific time in history as a child — the Holocaust — and wondering if her mother did anything to stop it. She said she was shocked to hear that many Americans weren't aware that millions of Jews had died until after World War II ended.

Bachmann said the next generation will ask similar questions about what their elders did to prevent them from facing a huge tax burden.

"I tell you this story because I think in our day and time, there is no analogy to that horrific action," she said, referring to the Holocaust. "But only to say, we are seeing eclipsed in front of our eyes a similar death and a similar taking away. It is this disenfranchisement that I think we have to answer to."

So the burden of proof now shifts to the other side (the side you're defending) to show that there is something inaccurate about this AP story.

The fact that she denies making an analogy but explicitly says the two things are "similar" just shows that she's also not very good with language. (And try to parse the grammar of that "eclipse" sentence! I attribute that to being live speech rather than written text. I think she really wanted to use the verb "eclipse" because she thought it sounded cool, even though saying today's federal budgets in the U.S. "eclipse" the horrors of the Holocaust is even more outrageous than saying the two things are similar.)

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

Seems that there is a burden of proof issue here...the only evidence offered is a brief AP story.

Oops....sorry I forgot....continue with the unabashed liberal smear tactics.

That sounds paranoid. You really think the AP is making up fake quotes and attributing them to Michelle Bachmann?

 

[TragicMonkey]

I think she really wanted to use the verb "eclipse" because she thought it sounded cool, even though saying today's federal budgets in the U.S. "eclipse" the horrors of the Holocaust is even more outrageous than saying the two things are similar.

I think she wanted to use the word "eclipse" to tie it in to a popular franchise of movies and books about vampires.

Vampires, by the way, would be a horrible drain (ha!) on government programs, as being immortal they'd only put into Social Security and Medicare for so long but would be able to withdraw for centuries.

 

[thaiboxerken]

You don't understand. To Bachmann, and those like her, money is equivalent to life. To tax people, however modest the tax, is equivalent to a physical assault on life and to tax the wealthy is like killing Jewish people!!

 

[Dr. Keith]

So if I may continue the analogy then when tax rates were higher back in the 1980's than they are today that would make Reagan analagous to Hitler.

Damn that Reagan and his exhorbitant tax rates!

And damn Bush for not having the guts to make his cuts permanent!!!

 

[Nursedan]

Whoa whoa whoa. To the OP; where in the article does she mention or allude to 'rich people'? She mentions young people and taxes in general.

She also said that "there is no analogy to that horrific action (holocaust)" so why do you say she compares the holocaust to anything?

Believe it or not, I'm not even a huge fan of hers, but I think politics may have gotten in the way of a clear reading of her words. She is comparing the inaction of certain people during the holocaust to inaction by people today. She isn't saying "taxes today are like the holocaust".

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

She also said that "there is no analogy to that horrific action (holocaust)" so why do you say she compares the holocaust to anything?

Because immediately after she denies making an analogy, she says the two are similar.

ETA: By analogy, someone who says, "I'm not racist, but" isn't necessarily not a racist or necessarily not about to make a racist remark.

ETA:

She isn't saying "taxes today are like the holocaust".

No, she's saying that in the future, people will ask what we were doing while these economic policies were being made and that it's similar to how we asked what people were doing during the Holocaust. (With the implication that if you did nothing, you were complicit similar to the way we said that people who didn't resist the Nazis shared in the guilt of the Holocaust atrocities.) She claimed the two are similar.

 

[Aoidoi]

"Seeing eclipsed in front of our eyes"? I wonder what she thinks she thought she meant?

Once upon a time, she was falling in soundbites. Now she's only falling apart. A total eclipse of the brainfart.

 

[Tricky]

Hmmm...

there is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums that once such a comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically "lost" whatever debate was in progress. This principle itself is frequently referred to as Godwin's law.

I wonder if it applies to campaigns too.

 

[Nursedan]

Because immediately after she denies making an analogy, she says the two are similar.

ETA: By analogy, someone who says, "I'm not racist, but" isn't necessarily not a racist or necessarily not about to make a racist remark.

ETA:



No, she's saying that in the future, people will ask what we were doing while these economic policies were being made and that it's similar to how we asked what people were doing during the Holocaust. (With the implication that if you did nothing, you were complicit similar to the way we said that people who didn't resist the Nazis shared in the guilt of the Holocaust atrocities.) She claimed the two are similar.

It's the asking of questions she is comparing, though. She is not comparing our situation today to that of the holocaust.

Where in her words do you see the highlighted portion?

 

[thaiboxerken]

Whoa whoa whoa. To the OP; where in the article does she mention or allude to 'rich people'?

They never do. Whenever a proposal to increase taxes on the wealthy, the Republicans attack those taxes without mentioning the wealthy.

 

[Nursedan]

They never do. Whenever a proposal to increase taxes on the wealthy, the Republicans attack those taxes without mentioning the wealthy.

So the OP is incorrect then. That's the problem I have with making the leap you make - you're putting words in her mouth, then criticize her for saying the thing you imagined. Classic strawman.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

It's the asking of questions she is comparing, though. She is not comparing our situation today to that of the holocaust.

Where in her words do you see the highlighted portion?

Why do you think people ask what people were doing during the Holocaust? It really is a meme in our culture. This is really what she was talking about.

Yes, she is comparing the current economic policies to the Holocaust. She is doing so by saying that someday our children will ask questions about what we did now just as our generation asked questions about what grown-ups were doing during the Holocaust. There is a direct analogy being made between today's economic policies and the Holocaust.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

So the OP is incorrect then. That's the problem I have with making the leap you make - you're putting words in her mouth, then criticize her for saying the thing you imagined. Classic strawman.

The OP is only wrong about limiting the tax increases to the rich (although as anyone will tell you, the rich pay higher tax rates in general and since they control most of the wealth, they pay most of the taxes too). [ETA: Also, since the position Bachmann opposes is primarily the Democratic stance that favored extending tax cuts to all but the highest income bracket, that is what the issue essentially is--a debate over tax rates for the highest income families.]

But that isn't the main thrust of the point. The outrage is that someone would compare today's budget policies to the Holocaust.

And that really is what Bachmann did.

 

[Nursedan]

The OP is only wrong about limiting the tax increases to the rich (although as anyone will tell you, the rich pay higher tax rates in general and since they control most of the wealth, they pay most of the taxes too). [ETA: Also, since the position Bachmann opposes is primarily the Democratic stance that favored extending tax cuts to all but the highest income bracket, that is what the issue essentially is--a debate over tax rates for the highest income families.]

But that isn't the main thrust of the point. The outrage is that someone would compare today's budget policies to the Holocaust. And that really is what Bachmann did.

I'm not seeing it. Really, I'm not. The questioning is what she is comparing. Not the holocaust itself. She states this clearly. You think a presidential hopeful would outright compare taxes to the holocaust?

 

[mhaze]

So here's the evidence on the side that she did indeed make this comparison:
....

Umm, no that's a fail. You see, I already acknowledged the presence of a brief AP story, and noted it's limitations.