General Israel/Palestine discussion thread

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The Fool said:
and of course that is not true....you assigned the "unilateral" guff to my statement yourself....
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Yes, fool. Since I'm the one who raised the objection, it's that much more bizarre that you suddenly forget about it in order to claim I'm against a Palestinian state under any circumstances.

The Fool said:
No...I'm sure you are all for a palestinian state as long as it meets certain criteria that would be like pulling teeth to get you to articulate..
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No, fool. My opinion is easy to articulate, I've done so many times. It's reasonable for Israel to want assurances that a new Palestinian state won't become a platform to launch new attacks against Israel. Simple enough?

The Fool said:
are you really that paranoid about simply expressing an opinion? You avoid it like the plague. Makes it impossible to discuss things with you....Is that the aim?
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No, my aim is to get you to stop purposefully misrepresenting my words so that a discussion becomes possible. Why don't you just admit you were wrong in claiming I am against a Palestinian state so we can move on. Wouldn't that be simple?

The Fool said:
Ok...fair enough....goodbye.
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So much for "unlimited clarification", eh? :oldroll:
 
Mycroft said:
No, fool. My opinion is easy to articulate, I've done so many times. It's reasonable for Israel to want assurances that a new Palestinian state won't become a platform to launch new attacks against Israel. Simple enough?
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yes, simple enough...Assurances from who?
 
Mycroft said:
Ask me again after you've addressed the issue of your constantly mis-representing my point of view. Until then, I think I've wasted enough time on you.
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Hmm, doesn't take long for the conditions to become something you won't talk about.

so far we have your support for a palestinian state as long as certain assurances are given....given by someone you won't talk about just yet.....
 
The Fool said:
Hmm, doesn't take long for the conditions to become something you won't talk about.
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I'll talk about it all day long, if you like. After you address the issue of your constantly misrepresenting my point of view.
 
Mycroft said:
I'll talk about it all day long, if you like. After you address the issue of your constantly misrepresenting my point of view.
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Ok....You believe I constantly misrepresent your point of view. I accept that you believe this....
not sure what else I can do to address that issue....ok to move on now?

so far we have your support for a palestinian state as long as certain assurances are given. Can you tell us who has to give these assurances?
 
Guess who is opposing a boycott of the Israeli trade union? The Palestinian trade unions. Funny how the real leftists -- the trade unionists -- who are really at war or under occupation with Israel are less anti-Israeli than the fake leftists (all of whom live in the comfortable, capitalistic west, of course) on this forum who don't actually have a dog in this fight.

The insensate, not to say logically contradictory, hatred of Israel (for example -- claiming Israel is "racist" for being a nation-state of the Jews and then also that it is illegitimate because Jews aren't a nationality at all) is seen mainly in two groups: Islamic fanatics and terrorists... and left-wing "peace activists".
 
We have a local council in Australia that voted on a boycott of Israel. They have several members of the Greens in there, and the Greens have their share of radical left crackpots. They even tried to throw out all the computers that had Intel processors and change to AMD. The boycott has been revoked and I think the head of the Greens distanced himself from the anti-Israel radicals.
 
The Fool said:
Ok....You believe I constantly misrepresent your point of view. I accept that you believe this....
not sure what else I can do to address that issue....ok to move on now?
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Wow. Is it really so hard to just say something like, "I was wrong to say you are against a Palestinian state, I will try to be more accurate.".?

I guess that shows us how sincere you were about having a "serious discussion".

Welcome to ignore. Maybe someone else will bite on your troll-bait.
 
Mycroft said:
Wow. Is it really so hard to just say something like, "I was wrong to say you are against a Palestinian state, I will try to be more accurate.".?

I guess that shows us how sincere you were about having a "serious discussion".

Welcome to ignore. Maybe someone else will bite on your troll-bait.
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well I was indeed wrong that you are against a palestinian state...you are actually all for it on the condition that something that you won't describe happens....And now you are taking your ball and going home :)

Bye Bye....
 
Virus said:
We have a local council in Australia that voted on a boycott of Israel. They have several members of the Greens in there, and the Greens have their share of radical left crackpots. They even tried to throw out all the computers that had Intel processors and change to AMD. The boycott has been revoked and I think the head of the Greens distanced himself from the anti-Israel radicals.
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Not in the soundbite I heard. He said something about Greens being entitled to their views (no crap Sherlock), which he didn't always agree with but didn't condemn. The splinters Bob Brown gets from sitting on the fence must be painful.
 
Virus said:
We have a local council in Australia that voted on a boycott of Israel. They have several members of the Greens in there, and the Greens have their share of radical left crackpots. They even tried to throw out all the computers that had Intel processors and change to AMD. The boycott has been revoked and I think the head of the Greens distanced himself from the anti-Israel radicals.
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sometimes the depth of stupidity of Australian local councils knows no bounds.....
 
The Fool said:
yes, simple enough...Assurances from who?
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They could start by actually amending that Charter of theirs to nullify the bits about destroying Israel.. you know, actually write them down for all to see rather than claiming it's been amended to the west while in Arabic saying it hasn't been amended. Surely they can find the time to do that?

You know, that whole writing down laws thing that started with Hammurabi 3,700 years or so ago?
 
WildCat said:
They could start by actually amending that Charter of theirs to nullify the bits about destroying Israel.. you know, actually write them down for all to see rather than claiming it's been amended to the west while in Arabic saying it hasn't been amended. Surely they can find the time to do that?

You know, that whole writing down laws thing that started with Hammurabi 3,700 years or so ago?
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oh please....you want to run another charters squabble? Likud could also make a good start by amending their charter couldn't they....

sorry but you are jumping onto a dead issue as Mycroft has stated that he would apparently support a Palestinian state as long as someome makes some assurances...but he won't say who. So unless you can convince him to expand on that there is not really much point in you doing a drive-by.
 
WildCat said:
They could start by actually amending that Charter of theirs to nullify the bits about destroying Israel.. you know, actually write them down for all to see rather than claiming it's been amended to the west while in Arabic saying it hasn't been amended. Surely they can find the time to do that?

You know, that whole writing down laws thing that started with Hammurabi 3,700 years or so ago?
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I was thinking the same thing. If one were to make a laundry list of things Palestinians could do to show good intentions, that would be number one. Easy to do, they don't have to sacrifice anything, and it would send a powerful message at the same time. They could even make a big media circus about it, hold a contest where everybody could submit an entry, weed out all the ones that say "death to..." whatever, pick the top three and hold a national referendum. Great publicity, would buy a lot of goodwill worldwide.

Number two, probably, re-writing those textbooks.

Basically, most of the issues that have been raised over the last 20 years would have something that's an opportunity for Palestinian leadership to demonstrate good will.
 
Eddie Dane said:
What are the chances of a Palestinian state (states?) being a successful society?

Something I'd been wondering about.

The whole Palestinian state thing has become a very emotional issue and is seen as the end-goal of a peace process. Most sane people see it as the way out (USA, Arab League, Israeli Peace Bloc etc.)

But what are it's chances of success? Two separated strips of land with limited economic prospects.
The suggestion to just add those territories to their Arab neighbours and give them limited autonomy, is usually waved away as some sort of anti-Palestinian fascist idea.
probably because Liebermann (the Israeli answer to Geert Wilders) has once proposed it.

However, wouldn't be better to be hooked up to a real country with a real military, real stock market, real ports and airfields?

I know I'm disregarding the fact that no sane country want open borders with an area controlled by Hamas.

But it always seems so much more practical.

What will Palestinians think thirty years after their euphoric moment of statehood?

"President" sounds so much cooler then "Governor", I know.
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The Oslo agreement states that they will have their own corridor of some sort to connect the two parts, provided for them. I think everyone assumed it would be some sort of highway.
 
The Fool said:
oh please....you want to run another charters squabble? Likud could also make a good start by amending their charter couldn't they....
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Yes, I will squabble over the Palestinian refusal to do the things they agreed to in past agreements before they make any new ones. Likud has squat to do with it. Their documents are not official Israeli anything.

The Fool said:
sorry but you are jumping onto a dead issue as Mycroft has stated that he would apparently support a Palestinian state as long as someome makes some assurances...but he won't say who. So unless you can convince him to expand on that there is not really much point in you doing a drive-by.
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More blather from you. It's obvious you don't really want a "serious discussion". You just want to bash Israel in knee-jerk fashion while nothing at all is expected from the Palestinians.
 
bikerdruid said:
of course, israel keeps :rolleyes:up their end of treaties....
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What about the east side of the Jordan river?

Nobody seems to mind that 100% of that territory is no longer Palestinian territory. Funny nobody seems to care about the occupied Jordanian Palestinian territories.
 
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