Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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HumanityBlues said:
Are you joking? You think personal attacks should be actionable? So you just get to sue and criminally charge anyone who hurts your feelings?
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No I’m not joking. If for example Raffaele and Amanda were to win their appeal I would imagine their families would come out gun blazing at anyone and everyone who may have defamed them, by the same token Mignini has the same right in my opinion.
 
CoulsdonUK said:
No I’m not joking. If for example Raffaele and Amanda were to win their appeal I would imagine their families would come out gun blazing at anyone and everyone who may have defamed them, by the same token Mignini has the same right in my opinion.
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Couldson, there's a difference between defaming and insulting someone. You implied personal attacks are enough. How can you justify that?
 
HumanityBlues said:
Well I admit I haven't gone on such a hunt for **** in toilet links, but I'll see if one of my friends at the university will let me use his lexis/library account. I did find this. The book is "Introduction to Criminology": a Text Reader. Maybe someone has already posted it. Page 436 talks about burglars defecating in the toilet. It also explains why they don't flush because "the resulting noise can drown out the warning sounds of approaching danger." The need to defecate, the book says is from the emotional pressures involved in offending.
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Fuji seemingly has a bee in his bonnet about this one, unfortunately. And yes, I can say with authority that it's well-documented that some burglars are know to defecate in the premises they're burgling. If they choose the toilet, then it's likely - as this book says - that it's due to the adrenaline reaction which leads to a loosening of the rectal and anal sphincters. It's why sheep defecate and run away if you run towards them in a field. It's a physiological reaction.

I know some people like to pick an argument and continue to fight their corner, even when that corner is becoming smaller and smaller. The plain truth in this instance is that Rudy's faces in the cottage toilet is perfectly consistent with his having broken in then experienced an increased impulse to open his bowels.
 
 
CoulsdonUK said:
No I’m not joking. If for example Raffaele and Amanda were to win their appeal I would imagine their families would come out gun blazing at anyone and everyone who may have defamed them, by the same token Mignini has the same right in my opinion.
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Why should Mignini have the right to do any of that when he is convicted of abuse of office and before winning his own appeal? Don't you think it a travesty that Amanda and Raffaele should have to prove their innocence before they are in a position to claim redress?

To pretend there is an equivalence is ludicrous. The effect of the defamation of Amanda and Raffaele is that they spend nearly 4 years in prison for nothing (if the appeals are due to continue until September); the effect of the criticism of Mignini is that his ability to manipulate events is under threat. By defending the "same right" for Mignini, you are taking the side of the powerful against the little people.
 
feces in Hollywood and in Florida

Here is one example of someone who left feces in two burglaries in N. Hollywood, California. I think it took place in the 1990s. There was also the "bling ring" burglaries in Hollywood about a decade later. Using "bowel movement burglary" I found an odd case in Florida. Finally, here is one from Ft. Myers, Florida. And now I am pooped.
 
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halides1 said:
Here is one example of someone who left feces in two burglaries in N. Hollywood, California. I think it took place in the 1990s. There was also the "bling ring" burglaries in Hollywood about a decade later. Using "bowel movement burglary" I found an odd case in Florida. Finally, here is one from Ft. Myers, Florida.
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It was all part of the fake burglary you see. Once Rudy left, they remembered their crimonlogy textbook about how burglars will leave feces in the toilet-----not flushing in order to not make noise. Armed with this textbook info, one of the two took a big **** in order to further stage the most realistic burglary possible.
 
CoulsdonUK said:
Spin! Well take your pick from anything generated by 24/7 media (print or TV news) after Meredith was discovered through the past 3 years; the media have little interest other than audience share or increased circulation.
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We appear to have very different ideas of what 'spin' is. Most here consider it trying to put the best face on a story or an event with the media, thus you 'spin' the story to the media, the media doesn't spin it of its own accord. The media gets spun sometimes, but it doesn't generate it.

CoulsdonUK said:
With regards the list you provided, for me it’s not so much the number but the reasons charges have been filed against them, if journalist have made personal attacks on Mignini he has every right like anyone else to defend himself. Indeed, are the 5 from the TV station the same people who will be standing trial this month along with members Raffaele’s family for amongst other things leaking the video of Meredith’s body?
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See, I'd consider this a particularly disingenuous 'spin' on the event. Is that really why the reporters are being charged? Or is that a 'cover story' to obscure the real reason being that they were embarrassed on TV by the revelation of their incompetence?
 
theRealBob said:
But Mignini can never be put a**ide. He's always a (mildly insane, ferociously vindictive) showman.
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What is known about Mignini?

We know from his deductions that he is illogical. He totally seems to lack empathy (in his own words, his 'conscience' clear). He abuses power.

He could be a narcissist, a sadist, or a psychopath.

Could he have a high IQ with his degree of illogic?

Does he hate women?
Does he hate the USA?
Does his family like him?
Does he have any friends?

What was his childhood like?

Off to do some research (after the game)

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20002927-504083.html

Not since fellow European Max Von Sydow played the role of Father Martin in the 1973 occult classic The Exorcist has an audience seen such a fantastical portrayal of a self-styled avenger pitted against imagined forces of evil. The only element missing from the prosecutor's otherwise head-spinning performance was Mignini, himself, levitating before the judge's eyes.
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halides1 said:
Here is one example of someone who left feces in two burglaries in N. Hollywood, California. I think it took place in the 1990s. There was also the "bling ring" burglaries in Hollywood about a decade later. Using "bowel movement burglary" I found an odd case in Florida. Finally, here is one from Ft. Myers, Florida. And now I am pooped.
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Good examples, although if we're abiding by Fuji's all-new stricter criteria most of these don't count because the defecation didn't take place into the toilet. I could cite dozens and dozens of similar reports of burglars defecating on floors or beds, but I decided to limit my examples to those where the toilet was used.
 
Frank has a new post up:
Stefano Conti and Carla Vecchiotti, who were supposed to deliver their study on knife and bra clasp to the court next May 9, just asked for a postponement. It seems that their attention is now towards a possible contamination occurred outside the test. They are right because, as we know, that DNA doesn’t fit any logic, it simply can’t be there. Non-blood DNA on the blade requires another explanation than the knife being the murder weapon. And even for the bra clasp, as we shall see, there are some problems...
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http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2011/04/key-moments-in-knoxsollecito-case.html
 
Fuji said:
Yes, you have indeed "debated" it before - with me - and now as then, you have produced zero evidence of this "well-documented" phenomenon. You ended our exchange by asking me to stop talking about it. It's somewhat difficult to have an actual debate when one side tells the other to desist.
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Well you have plenty of evidence now. Now what?

I have done that search myself. Excluding the Kercher case, within the first 10 pages of search results, there are only three cases I found listed where a burglar left feces in a toilet at the scene:
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Odd how you can't find them but we can. Are you using the wrong Google?

Do you have some other accounts or any analysis at all of this phenomenon? If you do not, perhaps you would be so kind as to not speak about it here in such an authoritative manner.
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Now on to the more important logical point. Even by your own admission, and even back at this point in time before you had been further educated, you knew that the number of burglars who had taken a dump in the toilet of the house they were burgling is >1.

Whereas the number of three-way sex murders (or "rape pranks gone wrong" or "Satanic rituals" or "whatever other ass-pull occurred to us in the last five seconds") that match the Mignini/Massei theory of the Kercher case equals zero.

So even if a burglar dropping their load at a crime scene was something that had only ever happened once before it still looks like a better explanation than the Massei/Mignini theory.

So what was your point anyway?
 
As Bette Davis said

"What a dump!" How about a case from New Mexico? I can't recall whether or not someone found this one already, but the feces were in the toilet and provided DNA. Also here is one from Bristol, Indiana, but it does not say whether it was a number one or a number two. This link also has one from Sweden in 2003, but I think LJ might have found that one already.
EDT
It looks as if Fuji found the Sweden incident and the case from New Mexico.
 
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RoseMontague said:
Frank has a new post up:


http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2011/04/key-moments-in-knoxsollecito-case.html
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Frank Sfarzo said:
THE LAST FAMOUS WORDS
‘Patrick killed Meredith’
‘No, Amanda killed Meredith’
‘They called the 112 after the postal police arrived’
‘We surprised them while doing laundry’
‘There was glass on the clothes’
‘Amanda thrown her sweatshirt’
‘There’s a bleach receipt’
‘There was a strong bleach smell’
‘Raffaele brought his bloody shirt to the laundry’
‘The shoe-print is Raffaele’s’
‘The shoe-print on the pillowcase is Amanda’s’
‘We had the intuition that the knife was the murder weapon’
‘Raffaele was cutting girls in Puglia’
‘You are HIV positive, good night’
‘Amanda was a drug addict and was having sex with drug dealers’
...
Impressive: not even one right thing. Not to mention what they are forced to admit in order to justify themselves:
‘Amanda said Patrick was the killer and yes, we believed her’ (!)
‘We didn’t know who Patrick was, so we had not even studied the phone printouts’(!)
’Yes, we didn’t record the interrogations’(!)
‘Yes, we burned 4 computers (!) And we didn’t pay damages’(not yet)
‘Yes, we weren’t able not even to find Nara who lives right there’(!)
‘Yes, we knew there weren’t buses that night and we didn’t say anything, we forgot’(!)
‘Yes, we turned the house upside-down while the scientific police still hadn’t finished their job’(!)
‘Yes, we weren’t able to find the bra clasp during three inspections. (!) The biologists can do our own job better than us:
they came from Rome and found it immediately’ (!)
....
Mignini didn’t arrest these people. Mignini and Comodi defend these people.
But these people don’t defend Mignini and Comodi: they said ‘Goodbye, your problem now!’
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Frank sums it up well here. Sometimes I wonder if they're pretending they're so incompetent they can't possibly be corrupt, other times I wonder if they're corrupt because they can't so incompetent.
 
LondonJohn said:
Fuji seemingly has a bee in his bonnet about this one, unfortunately. And yes, I can say with authority that it's well-documented that some burglars are know to defecate in the premises they're burgling. If they choose the toilet, then it's likely - as this book says - that it's due to the adrenaline reaction which leads to a loosening of the rectal and anal sphincters. It's why sheep defecate and run away if you run towards them in a field. It's a physiological reaction.

I know some people like to pick an argument and continue to fight their corner, even when that corner is becoming smaller and smaller. The plain truth in this instance is that Rudy's faces in the cottage toilet is perfectly consistent with his having broken in then experienced an increased impulse to open his bowels.
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Didn't the people from law office that Rudy broke into also claim that someone used the fridge and bathroom?
 
I haven't seen anyone here actually lose an argument about evidence since I've been here. I've been trying to move some of the discussion to the 'back stories' for sometime with no luck.

Anybody got a 'back story'?
 
Justinian2 said:
I haven't seen anyone here actually lose an argument about evidence since I've been here. I've been trying to move some of the discussion to the 'back stories' for sometime with no luck.

Anybody got a 'back story'?
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Really :) In what sense Justinian ?


Yea, My people once admired a pig (from a distance - they may have been hungry) associated with a guy who sold grain to a guy who stole a donkey belonging to guy who knew a guy who claimed to have heard of a guy who saw Shirley McClaine's ass just before her granddaughter became a hardworking peasant who never heard of Cleopatra**

Lest you think I am ************ we have the papers [papyrus] to prove it.


** Or someone whose name sounded similar -another relation of a jaundiced disposition claimed it was actually a guy called Gunter
 
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platonov said:
Really :) In what sense Justinian ?


Yea, My people once admired a pig (from a distance - they may have been hungry) associated with a guy who sold grain to a guy who stole a donkey belonging to guy who knew a guy who claimed to have heard of a guy who saw Shirley McClaine's ass just before her granddaughter became a hardworking peasant who never heard of Cleopatra

Lest you think I am ************ we have the papers [papyrus] to prove it.
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What do you believe is evidence Amanda and Raffaele were involved in the murder?

You walked right into this one! :)
 
platonov said:
I know...

How ? I've got a friend* over there in the Govt' bloc !

* Gunter
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What piece of 'evidence' did Gunter tell you was legitimate?

Steve Moore said something interesting, that he could 'guarantee' that the DNA 'evidence' would be thrown out. Now, perhaps that was hyperbole, or a figure of speech much like Joe Namath's 'guarantee' was, but he has said he's talked to Italian forensic experts and they share his views.

What will you think if both the bra clasp and 'murder knife' are thrown into the Tiber where they belong, rusting away in its muck?
 
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