Split Thread [Ed] Personal experiences with gays

[zooterkin]

TMs sample seems to be just as focused as mine. From his description, it sounds like the majority of his interactions are with gays. Since the majority of the population is not gay, that would make his view of general society skewed.

That's not really the point at issue, nor do I think you can say that the majority of Tragic Monkey's interactions are with gay men (though that might be true). I think you can say that he has more knowing interactions with gay men than you do, and he therefore has a better idea of how gay men behave in general, and in different situations, and also whether any are likely to be in the military, for example. Given also that he is more likely to know if someone is gay, he's likely to have a better handle on what proportion of the general population is gay.

 

[chillzero]

Behaved/behaving

No need to shout .... but....

Perhaps, but I am not sure that fully addresses what I see as part of the problem here.
Identifying behaviour as inherently masculine or feminine is a mistake, in my opinion, and particularly in an attempt to defend an accusation of ignorance when it comes to how certain groups of people behave/act.

... you're still not getting it.


You know, your best option at this point would be to simply admit that your experience of gay men - that you can legitimately identify as such - is particularly limited, and that it may just be possible that you were mistaken to say that the stereotype of gay men affecting effeminate mannerisms is true.

 

[Quad4_72]

Nobody here is arguing for an "excessive" amount. We're arguing "more than you think there are". The vast majority of soldiers will be heterosexual.

But the people in the forum are from the real world. Their accounts differ from yours in that we judge whether someone is gay differently from you:

We are told.
We know gay people that introduce us to other gay people.
Some here will meet people in situations where it is very safe for them to come out as gay.

The majority of people we meet is still straight. But we've got a fairly decent idea of how many gay people there are.

Interesting. So how many gay people are there?

No, I know. But my point was mainly that I am not denying that you've seen what you are claiming to have seen.



I am saying that you don't *know* if the people around you are gay or straight. You are only guessing based on what you see and you could be wrong - mainly in your assessment, possibly even in what you remember (in the sense that you might assume individuals have done certain things hen in reality they have not - e.g. hit on a woman.)



-> How many of these people have you seen kissing their partners? Drastically more than 95%?

I don't believe that witnessing them kissing their partner is a requirement to determine their sexual preference.

If only 5% of men are homosexual then you could be expected to have met a good handful of gay men. Yet from the hundreds of people you claim you've known personally, there's only the one, where there should be 10 or 20.



Does that not strike you as extremely unlikely?

No necessarily. You must also take into account the concentration of gay people across the country. Are they spread out evenly? Or do the flock to similar locations to be closer to people they have more in common with (See San Fransisco).

As far the prevalence of homosexuality is concerned: Maybe.

But it gives them a much better idea of what gay people are like. And if they say that the majority of gays is not the obviously camp, effeminate, limp-wirsted fairy type of gay, then I think that information is way more reliable than yours.

Perhaps. Granted though, I am not suggesting that the majority of gays are the extreme camp kind. I just have found that the majority have acted feminine, whether it be extreme or minor.

You should. I was saying positive things about you and the worst I could come up with was that you're mistaken.

 

[quadraginta]

Do you realise that most gay men are not effeminate?

I think his point isn't that most gay men are like that, simply that most gay men he knows are gay are like that.

I think you haven't been following what he's been saying very carefully.

He is clearly making the assertion that because all of the gays he has met that he knows are gay have femme mannerisms then only people who have femme mannerisms can be gays.

 

[bikerdruid]

It looks like he is ignoring me.

don't feel badly....
i think that i am the only queer man commenting here.
he is ignoring my comments too.

 

[Quad4_72]

Are you serious? This is a basic failure of logic here. Most Italians are Catholic. Does that mean most Catholics are Italian? You can't tell anything at all about the masculinity of gay people if your sample is masculine straight people.

You are missing the results of both samples. In my sample of masculine behaving men, I have came across zero that were gay. However, in my sample of all of the gay people I have met, all of them have had feminine characteristics. You are looking at the wrong sample.

 

[bikerdruid]

I am gonna go with option 1.

youwould be wrong.

 

[Quad4_72]

Was the one in the bed acting in a masculine fashion?

From what I am told, he was a "fruity" individual.

 

[Ron_Tomkins]

How is that question anywhere near relevant to our discussion about my personal experiences?

So only your personal experiences count when it comes to form a logical hypothesis about this matter?

You can't expect to take only your personal experiences into account when making an argument about all the gay men in the world. According to your logic, if you haven't experienced it, then it doesn't exist. Never mind the fact that other people other than yourself have experienced directly meeting gay men who are not effeminate. No, scratch that. That doesn't count because it's not YOUR experience, which is the one that speaks for everyone.

I ask once again the Million Dollar question which you deliberately and consciously refuse to answer, and which is showing your hypocrisy:

You say all gay men are effeminate. No exceptions: What about Ian McKellen?

 

[Rasmus]

And I contend that most likely someone who is gay or bi is going to naturally seek out and have more contact with people who are gay or bi. This would in essence skew their view of society, leading them to believe that "Oh there are tons of gay people! There are almost as many as straight people!" When this simply is not the case.

There are tons of gay people.
I have met tons of gay people.
For there to not be tons of gay people, I would have had to hallucinate quite a lot over a number of years.

Do I think there are almost as many gay people as straight people? No.
Did I say anything like that? No.
Did anyone else? No.
In fact, the highest number that I've seen discussed was 10%.#
Personally, I really don't know and wouldn't be surprised if the number was a good bit smaller.

Are gays "rare"? Well, it depends on what you consider "rare". I know more gay people than I know bankers and I know more gay people than I know police officers. Do I think bankers and police officers are rare? No. (Come to think of it, this excludes the bankers and police officers I've dealt with in their professional functions.)

 

[Quad4_72]

There's one right there.

I will give you that. What I was referring to was me treating that individual in a negative manner personally. Following current military procedure and policies does not always reflect my personal feelings.

 

[Piscivore]

I am gonna go with option 1.

Adn that's why you're coming off bigoted.

Are you afraid of the possibility there may be gay men you cannot readily identify by their behaviour?

 

[Alan]

don't feel badly....
i think that i am the only queer man commenting here.
he is ignoring my comments too.

I am also queer and commenting here, but he has started to respond.

 

[chillzero]

You are missing the results of both samples. In my sample of masculine behaving men, I have came across zero that were gay.

... as far as you can tell .... from your rather skewed perspective of what constitutes masculine behaviour, and the identification of gay men.

 

[Darat]

don't feel badly....
i think that i am the only queer man commenting here.
he is ignoring my comments too.

No there are a few.

 

[bikerdruid]

dude...i haven't been around since page three, but you are still spouting the same crap.
from what you have been saying, you would probably guess that the majority of queer men were straight.
most queers are not hairdressers.
most queers are not effeminate.
most queers do not act 'campy'.
most queers look just like most other guys.

your 'gaydar' is utter nonsense.
btw...it often takes one to know one.

quad4-72??....... are you ignoring me?
another 5 pages of your nonsense since last i checked in.
i am queer.
are you saying that your experience trumps mine?

 

[Quad4_72]

Do you not meet people casually in businesses or offices? Do you think you know the sexual preference of these folks?

Judging off of the results of my samples and the low amount of gays living in America, in general I would be able to determine if they are straight or gay with a pretty high level of accuracy. If I were to randomly go around meeting people, and trying to figure out if they were gay or not just by meeting them, what do you think my success rate would be?

 

[bikerdruid]

Judging off of the results of my samples and the low amount of gays living in America, in general I would be able to determine if they are straight or gay with a pretty high level of accuracy. If I were to randomly go around meeting people, and trying to figure out if they were gay or not just by meeting them, what do you think my success rate would be?

....very low.....
at least 5% of men are queer. most estimates are around 10%.

 

[Quad4_72]

As a number of people here have pointed out there may be something else that you should be taking away from this tidbit of data than what you are insisting on.

And I propose that there may be a large amount of bias in this thread, especially with the high number of gay individuals posting.

 

[Rasmus]

I will give you that.

But that alone would explain why precisely zero soldiers would ever reveal to you that they are gay and why they would instead make damned sure you thought they were straight. They would put on a show!

And if anyone ever suspected them of being gay, you'd be right there swearing up and down that you knew they were interested in women, too!