Homosexuality is a choice

[MummRa]

All I know is this...

Being raised religious has ruined the way I feel about myself. My self-image is beyond awful, and I cannot enter into normal relationships with people, because I spent the first 30 years of my life convinced I was evil, and beating myself for not turning out the way God wanted me to.

I cheer the *********** day I tossed that rope off my neck, but even as an atheist now I can't escape it. Even now I am still ********** up and alone because of what idiots and the God did to me. Hopefully one day I won't be, but it's a long *********** road back.

Incidentally, someone up there mentioned a stat that "gays have on average 28 to 106 partners a year." If that's the case, then there must be a few Wilt Chamberlain-like gays out there to make up for the 0 I've had for 31 years running (though it is a really awesome streak....).

The only choice I made relating to my sexuality was to leave the cesspool that told me I was wrong for being born. Nobody would choose the life I have had, and the loathing and fear I feel. People who think homosexuality can be changed like a lightswitch have some damned nerve, I must say.

 

[Dani]

I told somebody that a homosexual cannot be aroused by a member of the opposite sex unless he or she is tricked (thinks the person is the opposite sex, for example). They said, "long ago when homosexuality was even more frowned upon, gay men would marry and have children, living seemingly normal lives. Therefore, gay people can be aroused by the opposite sex if they put their mind to it."

I had two responses:

1. Wouldn't a person who is aroused by both sexes a bisexual rather than a homosexual?

2. Assuming you're straight, imagine trying to have sex with someone of the same sex. Is it possible to be aroused by them simply by choice?

And even then for #2, if you can be aroused by the same sex, then you'd be bisexual and not straight. So, it seems to end in a non-falsifiable distinction. A straight person could never be attracted to the same sex, or they technically would be bisexual / homosexual.

Categories are useful, but sexual orientation is more a continuum. If a person has sexual intercourse only with people of the same gender, we will refer to that person as homosexual. However this doesn't mean that her/his sexual orientation is exclusively homosexual. The definitions we use are nuanced by both cultural and biological factors in conflicting ways.

Even if I agree that sexual orientation is mostly biological, there is an unavoidable cultural factor to it, and when we refer to other people we don't know all the facts in great part due to the enviornmental pressure. Sometimes the environmental factors conflict with biological factors, especially when the environment doesn't particularly favor a specific sexual orientation. The paradigmatic example of this is closet homosexuality, but it's also conceivable in today's society that a person who is an avowed homosexual can be aroused by members of the other gender.

Also (and I'm heterosexual) imagining myself having sex with someone of the same gender entails dealing with my cultural baggage, so the question is tricky. I think it's kind of gross, but it shouldn't necessarily be. I just learned to see it this way.

 

[DC]

Categories are useful, but sexual orientation is more a continuum. If a person has sexual intercourse only with people of the same gender, we will refer to that person as homosexual. However this doesn't mean that her/his sexual orientation is exclusively homosexual. The definitions we use are nuanced by both cultural and biological factors in conflicting ways.

Even if I agree that sexual orientation is mostly biological, there is an unavoidable cultural factor to it, and when we refer to other people we don't know all the facts in great part due to the enviornmental pressure. Sometimes the environmental factors conflict with biological factors, especially when the environment doesn't particularly favor a specific sexual orientation. The paradigmatic example of this is closet homosexuality, but it's also conceivable in today's society that a person who is an avowed homosexual can be aroused by members of the other gender.

Also (and I'm heterosexual) imagining myself having sex with someone of the same gender entails dealing with my cultural baggage, so the question is tricky. I think it's kind of gross, but it shouldn't necessarily be. I just learned to see it this way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinsey_scale

 

[bikerdruid]

All I know is this...

Being raised religious has ruined the way I feel about myself. My self-image is beyond awful, and I cannot enter into normal relationships with people, because I spent the first 30 years of my life convinced I was evil, and beating myself for not turning out the way God wanted me to.

I cheer the *********** day I tossed that rope off my neck, but even as an atheist now I can't escape it. Even now I am still ********** up and alone because of what idiots and the God did to me. Hopefully one day I won't be, but it's a long *********** road back.

Incidentally, someone up there mentioned a stat that "gays have on average 28 to 106 partners a year." If that's the case, then there must be a few Wilt Chamberlain-like gays out there to make up for the 0 I've had for 31 years running (though it is a really awesome streak....).

The only choice I made relating to my sexuality was to leave the cesspool that told me I was wrong for being born. Nobody would choose the life I have had, and the loathing and fear I feel. People who think homosexuality can be changed like a lightswitch have some damned nerve, I must say.

excellent post.
i can strongly identify with this statement.
being raised in a very catholic household and being queer has done this to me too.
i have recovered from catholicism, as much as that is possible, but i still view myself as 'damaged goods'.
if being queer is a choice.....i would have chosen 'straight', for sure.

 

[Mycroft]

I told somebody that a homosexual cannot be aroused by a member of the opposite sex unless he or she is tricked (thinks the person is the opposite sex, for example). They said, "long ago when homosexuality was even more frowned upon, gay men would marry and have children, living seemingly normal lives. Therefore, gay people can be aroused by the opposite sex if they put their mind to it."

I had two responses:

1. Wouldn't a person who is aroused by both sexes a bisexual rather than a homosexual?

2. Assuming you're straight, imagine trying to have sex with someone of the same sex. Is it possible to be aroused by them simply by choice?

And even then for #2, if you can be aroused by the same sex, then you'd be bisexual and not straight. So, it seems to end in a non-falsifiable distinction. A straight person could never be attracted to the same sex, or they technically would be bisexual / homosexual.

I think most people who have been through puberty have had the experience of being "aroused" at an inconvenient time or place without apparently having the correct stimulation available. Intimate contact is still intimate contact, so even though your preference may be for one type of body, it doesn't mean you will be unable to function in the presence of a different type of body.

 

[Aitch]

I think most people who have been through puberty have had the experience of being "aroused" at an inconvenient time or place without apparently having the correct stimulation available...

Yeah, in the words of Xander Harris ...

I'm 17, Looking at linoleum makes me wanna have sex.

Sitting over the axle of a bus or train apparently works too.

 

[mysteronyx]

...you haven't read this thread all the way through, have you?

I haven't read any of it. I decided to reply w/ my thoughts rather than make a new thread.

 

[mysteronyx]

I think most people who have been through puberty have had the experience of being "aroused" at an inconvenient time or place without apparently having the correct stimulation available.

Sometimes we become aroused for random physiological reasons. So, you've established that we can become aroused without needing a person you're sexually attracted to within your sensory range.

Intimate contact is still intimate contact, so even though your preference may be for one type of body, it doesn't mean you will be unable to function in the presence of a different type of body.

Are you suggesting that a man intimately touching a heterosexual man will cause arousal in the same way a woman touching a heterosexual man will?

 

[Alan]

That is definitely a bisexual arousal pattern.

 

[Taarkin]

Are you suggesting that a man intimately touching a heterosexual man will cause arousal in the same way a woman touching a heterosexual man will?

It's called "masturbation".

 

[mysteronyx]

It's called "masturbation".

If when masturbating the cognitive focus is on somebody of the opposite sex, then it's heterosexual. If the cognitive focus is on somebody of the same sex, it's homosexual.

 

[MummRa]

Thanks, bikerdruid. I'm really looking forward to hanging out with some other homos at TAM. This will be the first time I have interacted with gay people (other than a 60-minute lunch last year) since my boyfriend I broke up 11 years ago. So it's well past due.

 

[Mycroft]

Are you suggesting that a man intimately touching a heterosexual man will cause arousal in the same way a woman touching a heterosexual man will?

I'm more than suggesting it.

Will it be exactly the same? No. If he is a heterosexual man being stimulated by another man he will likely have all kinds of negative emotions. Guilt, shame, fear, disgust...but the equipment isn't designed to be picky about when and how it functions. Stimulation is stimulation, and the body takes over.

Just because you can have sex with a man doesn't necessarily make you gay or bi. That comes from wanting to, and also having the appropriate emotional responses to go with it. In exactly the same way, a gay man may be perfectly capable of having sex with a woman, and many do. It's a lot easier when society encourages it.

 

[JFrankA]

I'm more than suggesting it.

Will it be exactly the same? No. If he is a heterosexual man being stimulated by another man he will likely have all kinds of negative emotions. Guilt, shame, fear, disgust...but the equipment isn't designed to be picky about when and how it functions. Stimulation is stimulation, and the body takes over.

Just because you can have sex with a man doesn't necessarily make you gay or bi. That comes from wanting to, and also having the appropriate emotional responses to go with it. In exactly the same way, a gay man may be perfectly capable of having sex with a woman, and many do. It's a lot easier when society encourages it.

I completely agree. I bolded two points because, for me, this is what makes the difference between hetero- and homo- sexual.

 

[JFrankA]

If when masturbating the cognitive focus is on somebody of the opposite sex, then it's heterosexual. If the cognitive focus is on somebody of the same sex, it's homosexual.

No, that's called fantasy. It's not the same as reality. It's not as simple as you think it is.

 

[Marcus]

I'm more than suggesting it.

Will it be exactly the same? No. If he is a heterosexual man being stimulated by another man he will likely have all kinds of negative emotions. Guilt, shame, fear, disgust...but the equipment isn't designed to be picky about when and how it functions. Stimulation is stimulation, and the body takes over.

Just because you can have sex with a man doesn't necessarily make you gay or bi. That comes from wanting to, and also having the appropriate emotional responses to go with it. In exactly the same way, a gay man may be perfectly capable of having sex with a woman, and many do. It's a lot easier when society encourages it.

Interesting. I find it difficult to believe, that a heterosexual man could be aroused by another man, but I suppose I shouldn't discount the possibility, since I haven't known anyone who has been in this situation. I presume you have some reason for thinking this? Anecdotal evidence? Of course, I can see a person making this happen by ignoring where the stimulation is coming from, thinking about girls and treating it as a matrubatory situation. But this sounds like you could make someone become aroused against their will.

 

[Taarkin]

Interesting. I find it difficult to believe, that a heterosexual man could be aroused by another man, but I suppose I shouldn't discount the possibility, since I haven't known anyone who has been in this situation. I presume you have some reason for thinking this? Anecdotal evidence? Of course, I can see a person making this happen by ignoring where the stimulation is coming from, thinking about girls and treating it as a matrubatory situation. But this sounds like you could make someone become aroused against their will.

Boners happen. They are not always the result of pure will.

 

[JFrankA]

Boners happen. They are not always the result of pure will.

Agreed.

But why just boners? Women get aroused too.

The point is this: Situations can cause arousal as well. Sure a person of one sex might find a a person of the opposite sex sexy, but what really gets a people (especially women) aroused is foreplay and fantasy. And if that foreplay and fantasy is done right, a member of the same sex can be involved. That doesn't make that person a homosexual nor even bi.

 

[Mycroft]

Interesting. I find it difficult to believe, that a heterosexual man could be aroused by another man, but I suppose I shouldn't discount the possibility, since I haven't known anyone who has been in this situation. I presume you have some reason for thinking this? Anecdotal evidence? Of course, I can see a person making this happen by ignoring where the stimulation is coming from, thinking about girls and treating it as a matrubatory situation. But this sounds like you could make someone become aroused against their will.

Sometimes people who are raped have orgasms while being raped. Why? It's biology. The body is programmed to behave in certain ways.

Under normal circumstances it won't come up, no pun intended, a heterosexual man has no reason to try to have sex with another man. But a homosexual man does have reason to have sex with a woman, and that reason is that society places a lot of pressure on people to conform to the norm, and the norm is heterosexuality.

 

[Arcade22]

Interesting. I find it difficult to believe, that a heterosexual man could be aroused by another man, but I suppose I shouldn't discount the possibility, since I haven't known anyone who has been in this situation. I presume you have some reason for thinking this? Anecdotal evidence? Of course, I can see a person making this happen by ignoring where the stimulation is coming from, thinking about girls and treating it as a matrubatory situation. But this sounds like you could make someone become aroused against their will.

Dude, some of those 'guys' can be just as pretty as girls. Though i guess you would need to be some 'homosexuality' to get the party started, but then again talking about human sexuality in binary terms like 'heterosexual' and 'homosexual' is just dumb.