General Israel/Palestine discussion thread

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What are the chances of a Palestinian state (states?) being a successful society?

Something I'd been wondering about.

The whole Palestinian state thing has become a very emotional issue and is seen as the end-goal of a peace process. Most sane people see it as the way out (USA, Arab League, Israeli Peace Bloc etc.)

But what are it's chances of success? Two separated strips of land with limited economic prospects.
The suggestion to just add those territories to their Arab neighbours and give them limited autonomy, is usually waved away as some sort of anti-Palestinian fascist idea.
probably because Liebermann (the Israeli answer to Geert Wilders) has once proposed it.

However, wouldn't be better to be hooked up to a real country with a real military, real stock market, real ports and airfields?

I know I'm disregarding the fact that no sane country want open borders with an area controlled by Hamas.

But it always seems so much more practical.

What will Palestinians think thirty years after their euphoric moment of statehood?

"President" sounds so much cooler then "Governor", I know.
 
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Why does Isreal always get first billing in any debate of the Holy Land? Are they holier than the Palistinians?
 
The Fool said:
I responded as though you were against a palestinian state because you called it a "Bad Idea".
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No I didn't.

What did I say? That your idea was a bad idea. Why? Because it was unilateral and didn't require anything of the Palestinians.

Feel free to prove me wrong by quoting me saying I'm against a Palestinian state ever, but you and I both know you can't do that.


The Fool said:
sorry I just don't sign up for Wildcats false dilemma argument. There are other possibilities other than total shutdown and open slather.
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Then propose one.

The Fool said:
sorry, from my POV i'm asking pretty direct questions. I even offer unlimited clarification...how about we work on one question. Get it completely agreed on what it means then you express your opinion...you can even pick the question. Deal?
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In eight years you've never once paraphrased my words in a way that I would agree with. Even now when I'm rubbing your nose in the difference between being against a Palestinian state ever and being against your proposal of Israel just unilaterally recognizing one complete with borders, you won't take any responsibility onto yourself by saying, "your right, you didn't say that." or "I phrased that wrong" or even an "okay, I get it now, thanks for clarifying..."

Unlimited clarification...? If I never said I was against a Palestinian state and I clearly listed multiple times the reasons I thought your proposal was a bad idea...how many times should that need to be clarified?
 
bikerdruid said:
really??
wherever did you get that idea?
britain still had control with its policies of immigration and emmigration...
troops and supplies were arriving from canada and america for example, all throughout the war.
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Therefore Gaza is not occupied because Hamas is still able to smuggle in people and supplies.

Correct?
 
Mycroft said:
Therefore Gaza is not occupied because Hamas is still able to smuggle in people and supplies.

Correct?
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bikerdruid, it's tough finding a definition that applies only to Israel, isn't it?

Does anyone wonder why I think "Israel is Jewish" is the unspoken criteria for these new definitions few will admit to?
 
Mycroft said:
Therefore Gaza is not occupied because Hamas is still able to smuggle in people and supplies.

Correct?
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britain never had to smuggle in troops or supplies from canada and the states.
there were steady convoys crossing the atlantic.
there were also heavy losses to german u-boats.
there were u-boats as far west as the st lawrence.
 
As i asked before, because Germany was blockaded for much of WW1, does that mean that it was under occupation?
 
Mycroft said:
No I didn't.

What did I say? That your idea was a bad idea. Why? Because it was unilateral and didn't require anything of the Palestinians.
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and of course that is not true....you assigned the "unilateral" guff to my statement yourself....

Feel free to prove me wrong by quoting me saying I'm against a Palestinian state ever, but you and I both know you can't do that.
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No...I'm sure you are all for a palestinian state as long as it meets certain criteria that would be like pulling teeth to get you to articulate..




In eight years you've never once paraphrased my words in a way that I would agree with. Even now when I'm rubbing your nose in the difference between being against a Palestinian state ever and being against your proposal of Israel just unilaterally recognizing one complete with borders, you won't take any responsibility onto yourself by saying, "your right, you didn't say that." or "I phrased that wrong" or even an "okay, I get it now, thanks for clarifying..."

Unlimited clarification...? If I never said I was against a Palestinian state and I clearly listed multiple times the reasons I thought your proposal was a bad idea...how many times should that need to be clarified?
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you certainly are tenacious. You assigned this "unilateral" stuff to my statement and even now after having it explained to you 2 or three times that I don't hold to that opinion and never have....you are still using it as an excuse to go into a tizzy fit and not answer simple questions.


are you really that paranoid about simply expressing an opinion? You avoid it like the plague. Makes it impossible to discuss things with you....Is that the aim?

Ok...fair enough....goodbye.
 
To answer a previous question, life expectancy of Palestinian state: about three months.
 
Virus said:
So now Gaza is occupied because it's not a sovereign state?
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Apparently New York State, for example, is occupied territory. It has its internal government and makes its own internal policies, but the evil occupying sources of the USA federal government have an unfair, evil constitution in place that does not allow it to have, for example, independent foreign policy.

Of course, yes, I know, I know -- the USA government isn't Jewish, so... again... different rules apply.
 
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