Moderated Obama birth certificate CT / SSN CT / Birther discussion

[BeAChooser]

And for the first time, Chiyome Fukino is interviewed on tv.

Transcript of the video above:
http://www.livedash.com/transcript/a...5_2011/586968/

Most telling (from the transcript):

00:06:53 There's quite a bit of irony over this original birth certificate debate.
00:06:56 And that is the original documents are no longer even certified by the state.
00:07:01 The health department says president obama or any other hawaiian could still go through the process of getting one … snip …
​

In the article linked (the video above):

Obama could file a Freedom of Information Act request to view his original birth certificate and make copies. … snip ...

Not in the transcript or the article, but in the full episode; Gary Tuchman further clarified on the FOIA -

1) A person could file for an FOIA request to see and get copies of the long form
2) it will take weeks to get those copies

LOL! So …

Just as I maintained earlier and which many of you denied, the State of Hawaii can make a copy of the long form and give it to Obama, if he requests. It's not against the law unlike what so many of you claimed. Remember?

beren in post #2494 - "The president is not above the law, you know"

KDLarsen in post #2496 - "BAC would be screaming bloody murder that Obama broke the law"

ANTPogo in post #2497 - "I like how you ignore every single statement in that article from Hawaii officials about how the "long form" simply cannot be released. … snip … So, you want President Obama to completely disregard Hawaii state law"

headscratcher4 in post #2504 - "NO one, not the president of the United States, Not Donald Trump, has legal access to the so-called original. No request of the president to the state to violate its own law can or should be honored"

Redtail in post #2551 - "So… Bac, when will you be posting the slightest amount of evidence that Obama could release his long form/original/what ever birth certificate if he wanted to?"

CptColumbo in post #2564 - "You want the President and the Governor to ignore the law" and in post #2636 - "Neither one can compell the DoH to release a document that is cannot legally release."

Taarkin in post #2603 - "Better get Jack Bauer on the case; he doesn't let pantywaist liberal ideas like "laws" get in the way of his investigation"

Arus809 in post #2605 - "To get Hawaii to relase anything more, the GOVERNOR and the House and Senate of Hawaii will have to draft a law/bill that would make vital records more open" and in post #2772 "[Obama] cannot however, get a copy of it (via photocopy, xerox or digital scan). He can only receive what he already has."

Sabrina in post #2617 - "So no, you have NOT made ANYTHING about your insistence on seeing the original document clear AT ALL. Your personal incredulity, nor anyone else's, is not a valid reason to force the State of Hawai'i to violate its own laws to show a document that has EXACTLY the same information (with the addition of minor details that are not important in a legal sense) as the COLB already released."

fullflavormenthol in post #2782 - "The COLB, you know the computer generated one, it is a certified copy under the laws of Hawaii. It is all that they are required to give"

Newtons_Bit in post #2789 - "The Department of Health is not required by law to give anything other than a copy of the data."

kookbreaker in post #2799 - "So if all that is accurate, why don't some birther folks in Hawaii provide their own copies of the Long-Form. Sounds like it should be easy to get. What's the problem? Anything else is just words and some bozo blogger's opinion."

My, my, my … just look at all the liars we've uncovered on this thread in just the last few seconds.

The bolded portions in the Fukino and Tuchman interviews also put the lie to similiar recent claims by a number of public officials and liberal media personalities. All in all, it looks like the wall of lies is starting to come down. Lies are always hard to maintain … especially if the media won't cooperate and Anderson definitely didn't cooperate this time.

4) said copies will not be certified by the state .since they no longer certify the long form. ONLY the computer generated ones that are currently issued today

Garbage. That is just as big a lie as the original one. The law clearly requires that the state supply a "certified" copy of "any" document in which a "registrant" has a "direct and tangible interest", if the registrant requests. And Fukino previously issued a statement saying the original birth certificate is no different than any other document. In fact, Governor Abercrombie has stated that what is preventing him from releasing a certified copy of Obama's original birth certificate is that Obama hasn't given permission (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41203925/ns/politics-white_house/ ). Obama is the problem here, folks. Not the law. So what does he fear that is in that document? Or is he just promoting a devisive controversy that he thinks will aid him politically? Neither looks good, IMO.

And as for what *birthers* will do if Obama does make the request and Hawaii publishes a copy of the long form … let's see. Don't hide behind the claim that "birthers" won't accept it. Because that's what you folks are still doing … HIDING.

 

[Sabrina]

No, the state of HAWAII cannot provide the copy. According to Arus' post, President Obama could file a FOIA request to view the document, and could then subsequently make a copy himself, BUT IT WOULD NOT BE CERTIFIED BY THE STATE AS A LEGITIMATE DOCUMENT. Here, I'll put it in big, colorful letters so you don't miss it: THE ONLY LEGITIMATE DOCUMENT CERTIFIED BY THE STATE OF HAWAII IS THE COLB THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN RELEASED. THE ORIGINAL IS NO LONGER CONSIDERED A LEGITIMATE, LEGAL DOCUMENT BY THE STATE OF HAWAII ACCORDING TO THE POST ARUS HAS MADE!!!!!! Did that spell it out for you sufficiently?

The ONLY copy that is certified by the State of Hawaii's department of Vital Statistics is the COLB that Obama has already made available. And you STILL have not answered what exactly it is on the original that you are looking for. Will you ever? I seriously doubt it.

 

[A'isha]

Just as I maintained earlier and which many of you denied, the State of Hawaii can make a copy of the long form and give it to Obama, if he requests.

As explicitly stated in the transcript, not a certified copy, no. Just like we've said all along. Anything Obama obtains from the Hawaii Department of Health that is not the certificate he's already released will be totally useless for any official purpose and the information on it will not be backed up by the State of Hawaii at all.

It will, at most (and after a full-on FOIA filing, not just a simple "request") be a plain-paper photocopy with absolutely zero probative or even evidentiary value.

You completely doubt the state-certified official document, BAC, even after it's been backed up by the numerous and explicit statements of Republican state officials. Do you seriously expect us to believe you'll believe an un-certified, easily-forgeable photocopy?

Garbage. That is just as big a lie as the original one. The law clearly requires that the state supply a "certified" copy of "any" document in which a "registrant" has a "direct and tangible interest", if the registrant requests. And Fukino previously issued a statement saying the original birth certificate is no different than any other document. In fact, Governor Abercrombie has stated that what is preventing him from releasing a certified copy of Obama's original birth certificate is that Obama hasn't given permission (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41203925/ns/politics-white_house/ ).

As shown by the highlighted statements you make above, you don't even understand what was said in the Anderson Cooper report!

 

[headscratcher4]

The law clearly requires that the state supply a "certified" copy of "any" document in which a "registrant" has a "direct and tangible interest",

That is exactly what the state did...it provided Obama, as it would any Hawaiian born citizen with a "Certified" copy of his birth record.


So...CNN took the guy whose birth was announced two lines before Obama's in the same Honalulu newspaper to the Secretary of States Office to request a certified copy of his birth certificate. He was issued the exact same document (personalized to the requester, of course) that Obama was issued when he asked for his.

Coincidence or conspiracy?

Also, CNN got hold of a photo copy of a 1960 version of a Hawaii Birth Certificate ... like the one probably issued by the hospital where Obama was born (and now part of the electronic records kept by the state). No "religion" catagory there, and all of the other information was pretty banal and unintersting...the key parts, dates, parents, parents nationality/race, etc. -- i.e. the key information -- is reflected on the state "Certified" document that Obama was issued.

I love how you (BAC) keep making up rules on how to read and apply state law, rules that no one in Hawaii has ever thought up before.

The ice your skating on melted long ago... the cayote off the cliff, legs still moving in a straight line just before realizing there's no ground under them....

BTW, have you ever looked up the legal definition of "certified"?

 

[kookbreaker]

So BAC's response is to call everyone liars and repeat his gross misunderstanding of the law. Brilliant, yet pathetic.

ETA: I'd also like to know how my statement is a lie:

kookbreaker in post #2799 - "So if all that is accurate, why don't some birther folks in Hawaii provide their own copies of the Long-Form. Sounds like it should be easy to get. What's the problem? Anything else is just words and some bozo blogger's opinion."

I merely pointed out what should be the case IF WHAT BAC IS SAYING IS CORRECT! There should be hordes of Hawaii Birthers with their long-forms by now. What's wrong? They can't be bothered? Oh wait, its because BAC is wrong.

 

[randman]

actually no it doesn't.

If he wants to see his record on file in person, he can go to the Department Of Health and do so. He cannot however, get a copy of it (via photocopy, xerox or digital scan). He can only receive what he already has.


As for your $2 million dollar lie? Yeah we haven't hear that before

CNN just reported today that the White House admit they can ask for a copy of his long-form birth certificate and receive it if they wanted it.

It's amazing how so many can put their head in the sand and parrot absolute nonsense about how Obama cannot obtain his long-form birth certificate if he wanted to.

 

[randman]

So BAC's response is to call everyone liars and repeat his gross misunderstanding of the law. Brilliant, yet pathetic.

ETA: I'd also like to know how my statement is a lie:



I merely pointed out what should be the case IF WHAT BAC IS SAYING IS CORRECT! There should be hordes of Hawaii Birthers with their long-forms by now. What's wrong? They can't be bothered? Oh wait, its because BAC is wrong.

They have. Plenty of people have publicly provided copies of their long-form birth certificate from Hawaii. I posted some here in this forum.

But you guys would rather believe that somehow one cannot really obtain a copy, and even the president of the United States cannot.

unbelievable

 

[randman]

As explicitly stated in the transcript, not a certified copy, no. Just like we've said all along. Anything Obama obtains from the Hawaii Department of Health that is not the certificate he's already released will be totally useless for any official purpose and the information on it will not be backed up by the State of Hawaii at all.

It will, at most (and after a full-on FOIA filing, not just a simple "request") be a plain-paper photocopy with absolutely zero probative or even evidentiary value.

You completely doubt the state-certified official document, BAC, even after it's been backed up by the numerous and explicit statements of Republican state officials. Do you seriously expect us to believe you'll believe an un-certified, easily-forgeable photocopy?



As shown by the highlighted statements you make above, you don't even understand what was said in the Anderson Cooper report!

Wrong. CNN reporte the White House admits they could obtain a copy. Just a month ago, you could obtain a copy of your birth certificate. Conveniently now Trump is looking into this, the officials covering for Obama say they aren't doing that any longer.

But the bottom line is state law allows it. All Obama has to do is request it.

Moreover, he can request it be made available to the public and not sealed, and then anyone can view it. Fact is Obama is hiding something.

Only question is what and why?

 

[kookbreaker]

They have. Plenty of people have publicly provided copies of their long-form birth certificate from Hawaii. I posted some here in this forum.

Post #'s and links please.

 

[randman]

No, the state of HAWAII cannot provide the copy. According to Arus' post, President Obama could file a FOIA request to view the document, and could then subsequently make a copy himself, BUT IT WOULD NOT BE CERTIFIED BY THE STATE AS A LEGITIMATE DOCUMENT. Here, I'll put it in big, colorful letters so you don't miss it: THE ONLY LEGITIMATE DOCUMENT CERTIFIED BY THE STATE OF HAWAII IS THE COLB THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN RELEASED. THE ORIGINAL IS NO LONGER CONSIDERED A LEGITIMATE, LEGAL DOCUMENT BY THE STATE OF HAWAII ACCORDING TO THE POST ARUS HAS MADE!!!!!! Did that spell it out for you sufficiently?

The ONLY copy that is certified by the State of Hawaii's department of Vital Statistics is the COLB that Obama has already made available. And you STILL have not answered what exactly it is on the original that you are looking for. Will you ever? I seriously doubt it.

Wrong, and shouting it doesn't make it more right. You can request a certified copy, and you can request a letter validating the document. The simple truth is Obama refuses to release it.

Why?

 

[A'isha]

They have. Plenty of people have publicly provided copies of their long-form birth certificate from Hawaii. I posted some here in this forum.

And, as has been pointed out to you, one was a possibly-faked uncertified photocopy, and is therefore not only useless as evidence, and even if it's authentic it does nothing to support the birther claim that Obama can get a certified long-form copy of his own certificate from Hawaii (since it's, once again, not certified!!).

The other certificate that has been shown is an almost-certainly-faked copy provided by a woman who has a long history of untruths. Even more strangely, despite the woman in question posting copies of her family's pre-2001 long forms and claiming she had ordered a post-2001 copy that was "on its way", the "certificate" she provided did not belong to a member of her family at all (and was the same certificate that had an uncertified photocopy posted on the same birther website that this woman has posted many of her lies on). The copy of her son's long form that was supposedly ordered and on its way has never appeared.

 

[A'isha]

Wrong. CNN reporte the White House admits they could obtain a copy.

Really? Where?

Just a month ago, you could obtain a copy of your birth certificate. Conveniently now Trump is looking into this, the officials covering for Obama say they aren't doing that any longer.

This right here is absolutely false. No certified long form birth certificate was obtained last month, and the "the officials covering for Obama say they aren't doing that any longer" is a conspiracy theory concocted by liars to explain away why they can't provide a certified long form birth certificate issued after 2001.

As a quick tour through the Hawaiian DOH and DHHL websites going back to 2004 have shown, Hawaii does not issue certified copies of the long form, and the request form has not had an option to request one going back to at least that year.

 

[Newtons Bit]

Wrong, and shouting it doesn't make it more right. You can request a certified copy, and you can request a letter validating the document. The simple truth is Obama refuses to release it.

Why?

Obama has already released the certified copy. Please try to keep up.

 

[kookbreaker]

And, as has been pointed out to you, one was a possibly-faked uncertified photocopy, and is therefore not only useless as evidence, and even if it's authentic it does nothing to support the birther claim that Obama can get a certified long-form copy of his own certificate from Hawaii (since it's, once again, not certified!!).

The other certificate that has been shown is an almost-certainly-faked copy provided by a woman who has a long history of untruths. Even more strangely, despite the woman in question posting copies of her family's pre-2001 long forms and claiming she had ordered a post-2001 copy that was "on its way", the "certificate" she provided did not belong to a member of her family at all (and was the same certificate that had an uncertified photocopy posted on the same birther website that this woman has posted many of her lies on). The copy of her son's long form that was supposedly ordered and on its way has never appeared.

Ah, so his "plenty of people have" was actually two examples, both defunct or faked. What a prize win!

 

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

You know, this whole thing about Obama's birth certificate is really geting out of hand, seriously!

It's written in the U.S. Constitution that every American (including the President) has the right to privacy:

http://topics.law.cornell.edu/constitution/billofrights#amendmenti

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

How would some of you feel if questions were being raised about where you came from on National & International TV? Answer: You wouldn't like it if your private info got out.

 

[randman]

And, as has been pointed out to you, one was a possibly-faked uncertified photocopy, and is therefore not only useless as evidence, and even if it's authentic it does nothing to support the birther claim that Obama can get a certified long-form copy of his own certificate from Hawaii (since it's, once again, not certified!!).

The other certificate that has been shown is an almost-certainly-faked copy provided by a woman who has a long history of untruths. Even more strangely, despite the woman in question posting copies of her family's pre-2001 long forms and claiming she had ordered a post-2001 copy that was "on its way", the "certificate" she provided did not belong to a member of her family at all (and was the same certificate that had an uncertified photocopy posted on the same birther website that this woman has posted many of her lies on). The copy of her son's long form that was supposedly ordered and on its way has never appeared.

Nope. Not faked. You just don't want to admit the facts and so hold the absurd view that even the president of the United States cannot request and obtain a copy of his original birth certificate. You've been shown where others have. You've been shown where the hospitals and the governor of Hawaii have said they would release whatever Obama requests. You've been shown the WH admitting it.

Now, you say, well, it wouldn't be certified but state law says you can request it be certified.

You've been shown to be wrong all the way around now numerous times.

 

[Unabogie]

Randman: The Maui Tea Party hates Obama and everything he stands for. Why don't they produce birth certificates that match what Birthers claim is readily available for the President? After all, would it not be damning if thousands (ha!) of patriotic folks with three corner hats walked up to the CNN offices with long form birth certificates that they ordered this week? Imagine the drama! The impact!

Why haven't they done so?

 

[A'isha]

Nope. Not faked.

So, you believe an anonymous long-form certificate (instead of a long-form certificate of a member of her own family when she had no problem plastering their short forms all over the internet), provided by a known liar? Just like that?

You just don't want to admit the facts and so hold the absurd view that even the president of the United States cannot request and obtain a copy of his original birth certificate.

Which he did and released. You, for some reason, have doubts about the information on it (despite the registrar, the Director of the DOH, and the Governor of Hawaii all backing up), which seems strange given your uncritical swallowing of the certificate Miki Booth provided.

You've been shown where others have. You've been shown where the hospitals and the governor of Hawaii have said they would release whatever Obama requests. You've been shown the WH admitting it.

Where have they said and/or admitted these things? I've already asked you about the CNN/White House claim.

Now, you say, well, it wouldn't be certified but state law says you can request it be certified.

So, why hasn't anyone other than a known liar shown that someone has done that? And why can't she seem to do it for her own family?

 

[kookbreaker]

Nope. Not faked.

You claimed 'plenty'. Now it seems that there are at most two, and they are of dubious origin. Please link us to the 'plenty' instead of barking the mantras of a birther hyperpartisan.

 

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

I've got it!

These birthers are always bitching about Obama's birth certificate, how about we ask the birthers to show their birth certificates?