Reading the article, it's about people who sexually abused children and raped girls. I don't know how that relates at all to someone above the age of consent having consensual sex.
Reading the article, it's about people who sexually abused children and raped girls. I don't know how that relates at all to someone above the age of consent having consensual sex.
JWideman
Graduate Poster
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2007
- Messages
- 1,233
Ok, you got me on gay men. Understand that in this country where news is important, we recently have had undergraduates from Yale University chanting in public...
No means Yes
Yes means Anal!
No means Yes
Yes means Anal!....
I'm scratching my chin and realize these heterosexual guys are watching too much internet porn. They go to Yale and should have a lot going for them and not need to resort to sexist chanting to support whatever sexuality they have.
it wasn't boring if you were there
Maybe, maybe not.
Wow, I never mentioned any of this. You are projecting your stuff at me...
You weren't a naughty girl at a young age were you
You haven't been monitoring the current state of internet porn. Fortunately for everyone I have been, for scientific curiosity, and the B&D scenes you can easily find for free are something you don't want your 15, 16 or even 17 year old to play with. I thought I was a savvy teen about porn because my dad had a Playboy subscription. I was as naive as could be compared with what todays children have access to. I believe that is wrong. Boys today see crazy sex that isn't necessary to have a wonderful sex life.
Maybe porn is ruining it for the people hard wired to S&M (who am I kidding - it gives them more potential partners). I'm not inexperienced with such things but a 20 something with a 15 year old girl may be right for one in five hundred situations - but it is exploitive in the other four hundred and ninety-nine situations. Men prey on vulnerable 15 year old girls. Sad but true.
It's funny that you on one hand state that boys today are seeing "crazy sex", but on the other state that you think what you see in B&D porn is an accurate depiction of B&D.
You can't say I wouldn't want my daughter doing "those things". My concern about my daughter's sex life only goes as far as knowing she practices safe sex and isn't being forced to do anything she doesn't want to do. The details are not something I want to even think about. As far as I want to know, she doesn't have sex.
I will say that much of "those things" aren't something I want to be involved in myself. On the other hand, I know some people who would. BDSM covers a wide range of activities and you can't pick one activity to say "this is what people into BDSM do".
Anyway, I don't know why you're talking about 15 year olds. The young woman referenced in the OP is 16. Also, men prey on vulnerable 30+ year old women. Age and vulnerability aren't as related as you may think.
bookitty
Philosopher
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2009
- Messages
- 5,732
They do tend to think that they're going to live forever, but their fearlessness teaches them boundaries too.
My adolescent nephews took to leaping out of a first floor bedroom window onto their trampoline in the garden whilst the grown ups were away.Boing. Another broken arm but hey, my sister's so used to turning up at A&E with one of her three sons in tow that the staff there greet her like an old friend.
Bet that pissed her off mightily. How much was this to do with the fact that had she died the parents/guardians may have been liable? They were covering their own back, so to speak.
You see, this is where I have to disagree. We think that there will be exploitation becuase culturally we've become much more prudish about sex between people of wildly different ages. If we look back in history this was not the case. Why do we now consider what would once upon a time been considered an instructive and nurturing relationship between an older mentor and a younger person to now be 'exploitation'?
Ok, I'm going to throw something really rad into the conversation now, because I was thinking about this the other night after reading this thread.
Imagine if it was socially acceptable (the social norm) for an older person to 'take on' a teenager once they reach the age of consent, if the teenager wanted a sexual mentor for the first few years of their sexually active life? The mentor's role would be to show them how to make love like an adult and get max enjoyment from one's sexuality, and maybe verse them in other aspects of the adult world.
It wouldn't preclude the youngster from having a regular teen boyfriend or girlfriend as well. The older mentor would be approved by the parents/guardians of the teenager so that they knew they trusted them to care for their son/daughter.
What harm would come about if society was more accepting of sex between teenagers and older men and women and there was a social acceptance of such relationships, as I describe above?
Discuss!
It's a matter of trust and bridging the knowledge gap. In order to take on a sexual apprentice, the older person would have to be respectful of the younger person boundaries, go at the pace best suited to the younger and have some mechanism in place to protect the younger from something they weren't ready for. So it would start off with the same sort of conversation and mutual understanding that you find in BDSM sex between strangers.* The people involved would be more careful of their partner's needs.
It might be better to work this idea of trust and responsibility for your own sexual experience into sex ed, than to assume that adults are the only ones who could provide it.
* Note: I'm not saying that all BDSM sex has an elaborate conversation as foreplay. It's done by humans, and humans can be impulsive. However, it is more acceptable in the BDSM world to set your boundaries ahead of time, instead of just figuring it out as you go along.
Senex
Philosopher
Maybe Americans kept you from speaking German.
You mocked the idea of me having a daughter and I triple mock the idea of you having one.
I can't produce statistics but I can bully you into non-response if I just spilled links to 15 year olds who were molested.
It's foolish to equate the two.
I believe less than 5% of the internet porn traffic is for the welfare of women. I have had sexually active girlfriends and they did not consume porn unless asked to watch, they never precipitated it.
Do you really believe only boys watch porn?
Where are these porn watching women -- and I suspect it isn't male dominated S&M if they are watching.Can't wait for Senex to answer this one!
JWideman
Graduate Poster
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2007
- Messages
- 1,233
I'll address your anecdote with an anecdote:
My wife asks me to watch porn with her, and another woman I know who watches porn - by herself - will only watch male dominated S&M porn.
Your limited world experience isn't the only possible one.
Mark6
Philosopher
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2008
- Messages
- 6,261
My wife watches porn. So do both my teenage daughters -- although they try to hide that fact.
None of them care for male dominated S&M. As far as I know.
bookitty
Philosopher
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2009
- Messages
- 5,732
I see your point. With today's views of women, it is more difficult for a teen girl who is already sexually active to claim that she was raped. The f'd up logic of virginity and female chastity says that if she wanted it once, she will want it again. Once she's been breached, it's open season.
(With teen boys, there is the expectation that they would welcome any sexual encounter. If they are sexually exploited, people are more likely to say that they got lucky instead of raped.)
If we allow girls to be in control of their sexuality and focus on respect between sexual partners, we take away this ridiculous idea that women must guard themselves against any sexual encounter so that they are not seen as 'easy." It would be simpler to tell when rape or exploitation has occurred because the focus would be on whether or not an already expected consent was given.
bookitty
Philosopher
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2009
- Messages
- 5,732
Anecdote time! Every woman I know either currently watches porn on the net, or was surprised and delighted when they first discovered just how much was out there. Porn is fascinating.
Senex
Philosopher
You got me. My world view is rattled. If I could only meet this lady maybe I could get my life back together. I'm rattled. It's bleak. Could you possibly IM me her email address? I know my life isn't important to you and if I die in the street it is no skin off your nose, but if you have any human emotion can you send me her e-mail.
hehehe..don't worry - just practicing
And maybe not, since he's Swedish and Sweden wasn't even involved in WW2.
I'm not Swedish, though, and technically it was the Russians who kept me from speaking German.
I also have no idea what that has anything to do with the topic at hand, except allow you to beat your chest for something that happened almost 70 years ago.
Senex
Philosopher
Bulloney. I need some e-mail addresses so I can independently verify what you say.
bookitty
Philosopher
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2009
- Messages
- 5,732
Interesting. You hear of women who watch porn, you make a joke about emailing them out of the blue to discuss this habit. Something about the fact that they are comfortable with sex makes them open to communication with a stranger who has not been vetted for safety. Just watching porn makes it ok to target those women.
Wouldn't it be better for women if they could just watch porn, have a nice wank, turn off the computer, go back to being productive without having to worry about the damn social implications?
Last edited:
JFrankA
Illuminator
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2006
- Messages
- 4,054
What's wrong with speaking German? My girlfriend is from Germany. She speaks German and teaching it to me.
....I'm a slow learner, though....
Beliefs are wonderful things, aren't they?
Anyway, you must have hung out with the wrong women, then. I know quite a few women who watch porn, but do participate in it.
You don't know my girlfriend. She's disgusted (literally) by S&M porn that the female is dominate.
Why do you generalize? And you do very inaccurately.
Last edited:
Ivor the Engineer
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2006
- Messages
- 10,642
In many cases the older person would either shape the younger person into the type of sexual partner he or she wanted them to be, or get bored with them. Also, many young people entering into such a relationship would end up developing inappropriate emotional attachments to their older "lovers".
Excellent idea.
JFrankA
Illuminator
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2006
- Messages
- 4,054
You do know that a younger people get bored far far easier and quicker than older people......
Ysidro
I'm watching you
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2006
- Messages
- 5,320
JFrankA
Illuminator
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2006
- Messages
- 4,054
Yes I do because the article you posted, the girls made statements that clearly showed that the sex was consensual.
this recent case
I'm not less sensitive and I've been a Dom for quite a number of years. In fact, because I am a Dom, and because I know what responsibility that entails, I tend to be MORE sensitive and critical of someone raping anyone of any age. I am sure a submissive would feel the same way.
quixotecoyote
Howling to glory I go
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2006
- Messages
- 10,379
I don't know if you meant it that way, but it reads like you're saying the Derby rape cases were actually consensual. I hope you're not.
JFrankA
Illuminator
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2006
- Messages
- 4,054
Sorry, no. Thanks for catching my blunder. Please let me clear that up.
What I am doing is answering Ivor's question in regard to the OP. In that case, yes I do think the BDSM sex was consensual. In the case of the article he posted, it was clear that the sex was NOT consensual. In most cases, I would like to think so, but that is on a case-by-case basis.
.....I really shouldn't post at work.