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Is Mormonism any less true or sillier than other religions?

The question posed is whether or not mormonism supplies a viable answer and I propose that they do not.

No, the question posed is: "Is Mormonism any less true or sillier than other religions?" Please start a thread if you'd like to discuss what you see as providing viable answers though.

I think that fundamentally it's no different from any other religion, but there are superficial differences (Talking into a hat, golden spectacles, angels wearing Raybans, dancing cats etc) which seem sillier than other religious beliefs.

Dang it! I missed that there are 3 pages of posts after the one I responded to. As you were!
 
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I agree. Sacred underwear to protect you from being burned in a fire is very cultish and humorous. Smith burying his head in his hat to translate the Book of Mormon that was in "reformed Egyptian. Marrying his sixteen year old housekeeper and the wives of many of his friends and associates; claiming that Jesus and God appeared to him at the same time in the air and both were men;
Baptism for the Dead in the temples; buying a mummy from a circus; but I think the most telling of the entire tale is the fact that he was convicted as a "money digger" in a court of law then "found" the plates when told by an angel where to dig for it and it was in a hill near his home. It's all crazy. But then, no one can prove who wrote the book. It has lovely chiasmus in it.

Smiths' mother said that he often sat at the kitchen table entrancing his family with tales of ancient lands, describing their customs, clothes and weapons so it seems clear that the BoM came from his imagination.
 
Smiths' mother said that he often sat at the kitchen table entrancing his family with tales of ancient lands, describing their customs, clothes and weapons so it seems clear that the BoM came from his imagination.

The BoM is filled with descriptions of animals and technology that didn't exist in pre-Contact Americas. Genetic studies have confirmed that Native Americans came from East Asia and not, as the BoM attests, ancient Palestine. The "Book of Abraham" has been translated by actual Egyptologists, and it bears little resemblance to Joseph Smith's "translation" that appears in the Pearl of Great Price.

There is quite a bit of evidence that the BoM came from his imagination; childhood storytelling is only a tiny, tiny fraction of it.
 
Smiths' mother said that he often sat at the kitchen table entrancing his family with tales of ancient lands, describing their customs, clothes and weapons so it seems clear that the BoM came from his imagination.

Are you saying that Joseph Smith invented Dungeons & Dragons?
 
Citing rotten:

Contrary to popular belief, the Mormon faith is not all that much weirder than any of its mainstream counterparts.

  • Many religions have cornball rituals, for instance Catholicism, although none of theirs was ripped off from the Freemasons.
  • Their founder, Joseph Smith, got lynched by an Illinois mob while he was in jail. But Jesus was murdered too. Then there's Michael Valentine Smith from Stranger in a Strange Land.
  • Plenty of other faiths have secret teachings and ceremonies, such as the Unification Church, Aum Shinrikyo (a Japanese doomsday cult), and the World Church of the Creator.
  • Practically every church has sent troops to shed innocent blood. So the Mountain Meadows Massacre was nothing compared to the Crusades. What's 128 dead settlers slain on orders of Brigham Young compared to hundreds of thousands because of the Pope?
  • Mormonism is an edifice built atop another religion, Christianity. But Christianity builds on Judaism and Paganism, and Islam builds on both Christianity and Judaism.
  • Islam practices polygamy.
 
The BoM is filled with descriptions of animals and technology that didn't exist in pre-Contact Americas. Genetic studies have confirmed that Native Americans came from East Asia and not, as the BoM attests, ancient Palestine. The "Book of Abraham" has been translated by actual Egyptologists, and it bears little resemblance to Joseph Smith's "translation" that appears in the Pearl of Great Price.

There is quite a bit of evidence that the BoM came from his imagination; childhood storytelling is only a tiny, tiny fraction of it.

True but a widely used apologetic is "How could an unlettered farm boy conceive of such a work", so showing he told these kinds of tales before he wrote his book is an answer to that.
 
True but a widely used apologetic is "How could an unlettered farm boy conceive of such a work", so showing he told these kinds of tales before he wrote his book is an answer to that.

My usual response to that is, "the same way an unemployed single mother came up with Harry Potter, but without the talent and skill."
 
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This discussion probably belongs in a thread of its own, but I can't understand how an atheist can agree to simply have 10% of their earnings automatically taken out and going directly to a church, no matter how admirably they may be spending the money.

Even if 100% of it were going to social work, not related at all to religious purposes, I would much prefer to donate that money independently myself, choosing which secular charities to give to. Simply agreeing to have a church decide how to use the money I donate seems wrong to me, as an atheist.

I am sure I probably don't fully understand the Swedish system, but I am just reacting to what's been posted here.

Sorry for going off-topic! Just had to add my two cents.

What you do, as an atheist, is your business. What I do, as an atheist, is mine. The only thing that atheists have in common is that they don't believe in any deity. How they then choose to interact with their surroundings is completely individual. I am frankly surprised that anyone would require clarification about this. I am frankly surprised that this is even an issue to anyone not affected? What business of yours is it what I do with my money or why? (Or not, as I am now taxed in the UK.)

I debated whether to even give you an answer, because frankly I found your post quite overbearing. Do you require my P60 as well?

My identity as an atheist is certainly not too fragile for me to associate with anything non secular when it makes sense.


  1. Sweden has a secular wellfare system - funded by tax money other than the tithe - which is mistakenly believed to be sufficient. Long waiting times to see social services and intricate rules mean that people have the time to starve while waiting for an appointment with the social services. There are no secular charities set up for these people, as the wellfare is seen as sufficient. The CoSw is the only institution with the infrastructure and the willingness to provide food parcels for families that have fallen between the cracks. These people have no other recourse and there are virtually no secular charities in Sweden. Particularly not ones that are able to provide instant help or who have the infrastructure to reach the people who would need it. There most certainly are no secular charities that provide help within Sweden because people are still in denial about some harsh socio-economic truths about Sweden. The CoSw is the only organisation that even believes a person can starve in Sweden. Any secular charity will be aimed at a specific disease or international aid. Both worthy causes that I also contribute to with my already taxed money. (Yes, you get more bang for buck when your contribution is from your untaxed money). Would you rather I sent my money to PETA? I don't agree with what they do one bit, but at least they are not religiously affiliated...
  2. Since I was born before 1996, I was automatically entered as a member. Leaving requires a meeting and signing of some papers. I'm not travelling to Sweden to get myself out of paying something I'm not even paying at the moment. I'm not that insecure in my non-belief.
  3. The CoSw owns and maintains some very important cultural inheritence buildings and a big chunk of the tithe goes to this maintenance. I don't care to see thousand year old buildings go rot. They are kept by CoSw and not any national trust type organization. The only way to contribute to their upkeep is to contribute to CoSw. Sweden has a long history and its churches are an important part of that history, whether I believe in god or not.
  4. In certain underprivileged suburbs, the CoSw activities are the only ones available for the young and they literally keep kids from entering a career selling handjobs for crack. There is no other organisation present in those areas. Until someone sets up a secular operation that is as efficient, I'd just as well contribute. What's that? No secular movement in Sweden interested in working the suburbs? That's too bad. I guess, since it's so important to me that everyone see what a BIG ATHEIST I am, those kids can go **** themselves.
  5. CoSw is one of Sweden's largest employers and before you ask, no, you don't have to be Lutheran or even Christian to work there. Let's unemploy some people so I can wear my atheist badge with pride.

There. Do I have permission to do what I like with my own *********** money now? Or will the Atheist Super Council have a vote and blackball me? What's that? Apparently, as long as I don't believe in any deity, I'm still an atheist, no matter what I do with my money? Oh, noes - what now?
 
What you do, as an atheist, is your business. What I do, as an atheist, is mine. The only thing that atheists have in common is that they don't believe in any deity. How they then choose to interact with their surroundings is completely individual. I am frankly surprised that anyone would require clarification about this. I am frankly surprised that this is even an issue to anyone not affected? What business of yours is it what I do with my money or why? (Or not, as I am now taxed in the UK.)

I debated whether to even give you an answer, because frankly I found your post quite overbearing. Do you require my P60 as well?

My identity as an atheist is certainly not too fragile for me to associate with anything non secular when it makes sense.


  1. Sweden has a secular wellfare system - funded by tax money other than the tithe - which is mistakenly believed to be sufficient. Long waiting times to see social services and intricate rules mean that people have the time to starve while waiting for an appointment with the social services. There are no secular charities set up for these people, as the wellfare is seen as sufficient. The CoSw is the only institution with the infrastructure and the willingness to provide food parcels for families that have fallen between the cracks. These people have no other recourse and there are virtually no secular charities in Sweden. Particularly not ones that are able to provide instant help or who have the infrastructure to reach the people who would need it. There most certainly are no secular charities that provide help within Sweden because people are still in denial about some harsh socio-economic truths about Sweden. The CoSw is the only organisation that even believes a person can starve in Sweden. Any secular charity will be aimed at a specific disease or international aid. Both worthy causes that I also contribute to with my already taxed money. (Yes, you get more bang for buck when your contribution is from your untaxed money). Would you rather I sent my money to PETA? I don't agree with what they do one bit, but at least they are not religiously affiliated...
  2. Since I was born before 1996, I was automatically entered as a member. Leaving requires a meeting and signing of some papers. I'm not travelling to Sweden to get myself out of paying something I'm not even paying at the moment. I'm not that insecure in my non-belief.
  3. The CoSw owns and maintains some very important cultural inheritence buildings and a big chunk of the tithe goes to this maintenance. I don't care to see thousand year old buildings go rot. They are kept by CoSw and not any national trust type organization. The only way to contribute to their upkeep is to contribute to CoSw. Sweden has a long history and its churches are an important part of that history, whether I believe in god or not.
  4. In certain underprivileged suburbs, the CoSw activities are the only ones available for the young and they literally keep kids from entering a career selling handjobs for crack. There is no other organisation present in those areas. Until someone sets up a secular operation that is as efficient, I'd just as well contribute. What's that? No secular movement in Sweden interested in working the suburbs? That's too bad. I guess, since it's so important to me that everyone see what a BIG ATHEIST I am, those kids can go **** themselves.
  5. CoSw is one of Sweden's largest employers and before you ask, no, you don't have to be Lutheran or even Christian to work there. Let's unemploy some people so I can wear my atheist badge with pride.

There. Do I have permission to do what I like with my own *********** money now? Or will the Atheist Super Council have a vote and blackball me? What's that? Apparently, as long as I don't believe in any deity, I'm still an atheist, no matter what I do with my money? Oh, noes - what now?


Wow, you are really defensive and overreacting about this.

I simply stated my point of view, and said that I didn't understand, given what I know (and I said that I probably didn't understand the Swedish model very well), how an atheist would prefer to give their 10% to the church rather than directly to secular charities.

Given your response, it seems to me that your identity as an atheist maybe is a little fragile.
 
This discussion probably belongs in a thread of its own, but I can't understand how an atheist can agree to simply have 10% of their earnings automatically taken out and going directly to a church, no matter how admirably they may be spending the money.

10%? According to Skatteverket the average amount that that goes to the church of Sweden is around 0.99% of the tax that the commune takes. Anyone who isn't a member still pays a graveyard tax for about 0.24%.

Most of it goes to good things like refurbishing and maintaining churches, helping troubled teenagers and people who are in need of emotional support and good things like that.
 
10%? According to Skatteverket the average amount that that goes to the church of Sweden is around 0.99% of the tax that the commune takes. Anyone who isn't a member still pays a graveyard tax for about 0.24%.


See, that's why I said I didn't understand the Swedish model. :D

I assumed "tithe" still retained its definition of 10%.

Most of it goes to good things like refurbishing and maintaining churches, helping troubled teenagers and people who are in need of emotional support and good things like that.


Helping troubled teenagers and people in need of emotional support makes sense (assuming religious indoctrination isn't a part of it), but refurbishing and maintaining churches? I wouldn't quite agree that that is a "good thing."
 
Helping troubled teenagers and people in need of emotional support makes sense (assuming religious indoctrination isn't a part of it), but refurbishing and maintaining churches? I wouldn't quite agree that that is a "good thing."

Those churches can be pretty beautiful on the inside and outside and are important for marriages, burials, graduation and stuff like that.

Two local churches:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/Skellefteå_Sankt_Olovs_församling.JPG

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/62/Skelleftea_landskyrka_main_view.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/55/Skelleftea_landskyrka-Entrance.jpg
 
I openly admit that I don't have enough data on non-Swedish Mormons. From my point of view, growing up in an area where attempts at conversion were at least two a day, the ones we did have were a welcome change and the ones we had most definitely came off as less aggressive than similarly fringy churches.

I should also point out that I'm a bit of a pragmatist. To me impact trumps outlandishness, which is why I need more data on impact before making my mind up.

Sweden separated chuch and state first in 2000, so like anyone born before that I was born into the Swedish State Church which is Lutheran Protestant. I was even baptized (at 3 months) by parents who, despite being atheist themselves, found the tradition quaint and beautiful. I got to choose whether I wanted confirmation at 15 and chose not to be confirmed, but to this day I remain a member of Church of Sweden which basically means that whenever I am taxed in Sweden I pay tithe to it. I have looked into what that money, mainly, goes to and I mainly approve, so I keep paying. Do I like what the church stands for on a "spiritual" level? No. Do I like what they do with the money I pay them? Mainly, yes. I have seen the impact a CoS youth center can have on a disenfranchised area - but I have also seen my own father be encouraged to talk to the parish priest about his alcoholism instead of seeking medical and psychiatric help. Of that, I don't approve. CoS - good if you are young and underprivileged, bad if you are a middle aged alcoholic who really should be in treatment... But overall, the impact is mainly for the good. CoS rarely sticks their nose into legislation. Their official stance was against the synod that tried to oust women priests and they have a number of female bishops.

Their most problematic stance is regarding homosexuality. CoS practices a kind of "silent disapproval". Doctrine is "love the sinner, hate the sin" which, to my mind, is wrong because I can't see how homosexuality could be a sin. (I can't see how anything that personal or with such low practical impact on anyone else can be a sin.) So I disapprove of their disapproval. However: do I find that CoS goes out into the communitay and actively discourage people from homosexual actions? No, not in my experience. The problem starts when a homosexual person is also a believer. That's when the hurt starts and I don't approve. If the church does not mend its ways regarding this (and mind you, this is partly depending on individual vicars and parishes) I may still consider leaving it and withhold my tithe, despite the good work that they do.

And issues like this is what I'm looking for when I say I need data. To me, all major religions make incredibly outlandish claims. To make my mind up, impact is where it's at.

And of course, as with any religion, an important secondary endpoint is "Treatment of Lapsed members".

If I understand the "how long it's been around" argument correctly, it's not a matter of chronology but that when we have recorded history to measure against, we can know for a fact some claims are bunkum, while we have to strongly suspect claims made in, for example, OT, are bunkum.

Usually, to the inquiring mind, "We know this is false" trumps "We highly suspect this is false". Which is why it is considered slightly more odd to choose to believe something known to be false, than something highly suspected to be false.

But I don't find it as easy as that: while, for example, it is highly likely that a convicted fraudster is pulling a fast one this time too, we can't actually know that. If we don't believe in god, we don't believe god spoke to anyone, no matter their rap sheet. If we hold it possible that someone is spoken to by god, then there is no reason for god not to choose a convicted fraudster. I.e. Moses, Muhammed, Jesus, Robbard and Smith are about as plausible anyway. The difference is so marginal, that I personally can't call it on that. (No. I personally don't find even Xenu any less plausible than burning bushes or surviving without food or water for forty days. Call me crazy.)

I will have to call it on impact and on the behaviour of the adherents, because all the claims are silly to me.

I will voraciously read any post providing insight to impact. Like the poster above who felt angry and slighted when the Mormon kids couldn't play with him as a child. That kind of behaviour is silly and counts against. Providing charity is not silly and counts for. Proselytizing is silly and counts against. Standing by a principle of anti-violence, but still contributing by taking risky placements as medical staff is not silly and counts for. etc.

Thanks for an interesting post. (CoS in these parts is usually an abbr for Church of Scientology).

I was raised RLDS, a tiny little sect of Mormonism which changed its name to Community of Christ a few years ago. The basic history is that when Joseph Smith died there was something of a power struggle, with most members following Brigham Young and many church leaders to Utah. There were several smaller factions that formed, all with claims to being the 'original'. There is probably a lot of truth that RLDS is due much to Smith's wife Emma. (Emma Smith is a saintlike figure to RLDS, and a villain to LDS.)

Needless to say, I was raised an evil apostate. :) Until I was about in 4th grade I had no idea of the differences in the Mormon churches and just told my friends I was a Mormon (not inaccurate, but not what they assumed I meant). I found out rather harshly one day that I was a 'rebel', and went through a rather fast ostracizing with some of my long time friends who were Mormons of the Utah persuasion. They'd had some kind of lesson on RLDS and realized before I did that we were different. I went through angry, and hurt, confused, and finally resigned. RLDS for it's part, did a pretty good job teaching me about how wrong LDS were about everyting. :rolleyes:

Even today, I'll tell my Mormon friends I'm an atheist before I'd tell them I was RLDS.

RLDS aka CoC is a lot better about the status of women in the church than LDS (since 1984 women can hold any office of priesthood, and as I mentioned, Emma Smith is almost revered). Probably better about homosexuals also, at least not entirely oppressive. The common view is that a homosexual should be celebate, but is not considered 'sinful'. More like an affliction. Hey, at least they at least struggle and discuss the issue.

Mormonism is a worse flavor than other silly beliefs because rather than being merely Protestantism, it is Christian Primivitism or 'Restorationism'. This is the notion that your religion is hopelessly corrupted, and that God needed to take action to make things right by returning to the beginning. Although Mormonism is quite accepting of your right to practice your wrong faith, you are wrong.
 
I admit, as someone who was raised in the LDS church, that it strikes me as weird that so many people regard Mormonism as more weird than other religions.

I just don't see it. I really don't get why the garments are something to snicker about but transubstantiation, special facial hair grooming requirements or reincarnation are not.

Am I insane? What is your opinion?
If you look at as a pure doctrinal/logical issue, then no, it's not much different.

But high control groups are so much more than just a set of wacky teachings. Those elements are what makes those types of groups different than the twice-a-yr Mass attenders from mainstream churches. Totally a different matter. (Not that there can't be those types in any church, but the high control groups have a lot less because they throw 'em out.)

http://www.factnet.org/rancho5.htm
 
Wow, you are really defensive and overreacting about this.

I simply stated my point of view, and said that I didn't understand, given what I know (and I said that I probably didn't understand the Swedish model very well), how an atheist would prefer to give their 10% to the church rather than directly to secular charities.

Given your response, it seems to me that your identity as an atheist maybe is a little fragile.

You continuing to be overbearing and asserting that the response is an overreaction does not make it so. My identity as an atheist has never been in question because I was never a believer. I'm reacting to the arrogance in your post and your attempt at foisting your own attitude on others. Anything perceived as a strong reaction is to your behaviour and nothing else.

You, on the other hand seem very keen to be the atheistiest of the atheists. Given your over-reaction to the notion that money could go where they make the most good, even if that means going to a theist organisation I would suggest the fragility is actually on your foot.

You say you don't know how the Swedish society works, and yet you make assumptions about where money could go instead? How is that not arrogant, overbearing and whateveryourcountry-centric?

You got exactly the kind of response your post deserved. If you had been genuinely curious about the workings of the Swedish tithe, you would probably have phrased yourself in a less arrogant manner. If you were, on the other hand, taking the chance to pontificate, then your post would have been phrased exactly as it now is.
 
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See, that's why I said I didn't understand the Swedish model. :D

I assumed "tithe" still retained its definition of 10%.




Helping troubled teenagers and people in need of emotional support makes sense (assuming religious indoctrination isn't a part of it), but refurbishing and maintaining churches? I wouldn't quite agree that that is a "good thing."

That is because the USA does not have many buildings that are more than 100 years old.

When you have churches that are 500-1000 years old, they do need maintaining.

This doesn't even mean the massive, well-known churches, like Aga Sophia, St. Paul's, Westminster Abbey, etc., here is an example of the churches in my area:

* All Saints Church, Southend built in 1886 and extended in 1934, is a fine example of Gothic Revival Architecture.
* St Mary's Church, Prittlewell contains a saxon arch but the majority of the building dates from the 12th to 15th centuries.
* Holy Trinity Church, Southchurch is made up of two parts, the original 12th century 'old church' and the larger 'new church' built in the early 20th century.
* St Clement's Church, Leigh dates from the 15th century and has served countless generations of seafarers.
* St Margaret's Church, Leigh was built in 1930 and is one of Southend's more recent churches.
* St Alban's Church, Westcliff was founded in 1892 as a daughter church of St Mary's Prittlewell.
* St Andrew's Church, Shoebury is a fine example of a small Norman parish church founded to serve a scattered rural and fishing community shortly after the Norman conquest.
* St John's Church, Southend was built in 1842 and was Southend's first parish church. It played an important role in the life of the growing seaside resort.
* St Laurence's Church, Eastwood spans 12th to the 17th centuries. It's basic design is typical for a country parish church of this period and many similar ones can be seen throughout Essex.
* St Mary's Church, Shoebury is a small 13th century country parish church which has retained much of its character and attractiveness.


This is my fav, and one of the oldest in the area, I see it as I pass by on the train each day:

http://benfleethistory.org.uk/page_id__81_path__0p2p18p.aspx

There is a tradition that an early church at Benfleet was built in 894 A.D. after the great battle that was fought here in the ninth century, between King Alfred's men and the Danish pirates, who had constructed a fortified camp at Benfleet. Thus in the Spring of 893 there were in Benfleet Creek and along the shores of Hadleigh Ray, no less than two hundred and fifty Danish ships and a settlement consisting not only of warriors but their woman, children and horses. Then Benfleet probably had a bigger population than at any time until the present century.

Sweden has its own tradition of old wooden churches, quite beautiful, that require even more preservation.
 
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What you do, as an atheist, is your business. What I do, as an atheist, is mine. The only thing that atheists have in common is that they don't believe in any deity. How they then choose to interact with their surroundings is completely individual. I am frankly surprised that anyone would require clarification about this. I am frankly surprised that this is even an issue to anyone not affected? What business of yours is it what I do with my money or why? (Or not, as I am now taxed in the UK.)

I debated whether to even give you an answer, because frankly I found your post quite overbearing. Do you require my P60 as well?

My identity as an atheist is certainly not too fragile for me to associate with anything non secular when it makes sense.


  1. Sweden has a secular wellfare system - funded by tax money other than the tithe - which is mistakenly believed to be sufficient. Long waiting times to see social services and intricate rules mean that people have the time to starve while waiting for an appointment with the social services. There are no secular charities set up for these people, as the wellfare is seen as sufficient. The CoSw is the only institution with the infrastructure and the willingness to provide food parcels for families that have fallen between the cracks. These people have no other recourse and there are virtually no secular charities in Sweden. Particularly not ones that are able to provide instant help or who have the infrastructure to reach the people who would need it. There most certainly are no secular charities that provide help within Sweden because people are still in denial about some harsh socio-economic truths about Sweden. The CoSw is the only organisation that even believes a person can starve in Sweden. Any secular charity will be aimed at a specific disease or international aid. Both worthy causes that I also contribute to with my already taxed money. (Yes, you get more bang for buck when your contribution is from your untaxed money). Would you rather I sent my money to PETA? I don't agree with what they do one bit, but at least they are not religiously affiliated...
  2. Since I was born before 1996, I was automatically entered as a member. Leaving requires a meeting and signing of some papers. I'm not travelling to Sweden to get myself out of paying something I'm not even paying at the moment. I'm not that insecure in my non-belief.
  3. The CoSw owns and maintains some very important cultural inheritence buildings and a big chunk of the tithe goes to this maintenance. I don't care to see thousand year old buildings go rot. They are kept by CoSw and not any national trust type organization. The only way to contribute to their upkeep is to contribute to CoSw. Sweden has a long history and its churches are an important part of that history, whether I believe in god or not.
  4. In certain underprivileged suburbs, the CoSw activities are the only ones available for the young and they literally keep kids from entering a career selling handjobs for crack. There is no other organisation present in those areas. Until someone sets up a secular operation that is as efficient, I'd just as well contribute. What's that? No secular movement in Sweden interested in working the suburbs? That's too bad. I guess, since it's so important to me that everyone see what a BIG ATHEIST I am, those kids can go **** themselves.
  5. CoSw is one of Sweden's largest employers and before you ask, no, you don't have to be Lutheran or even Christian to work there. Let's unemploy some people so I can wear my atheist badge with pride.
There. Do I have permission to do what I like with my own *********** money now? Or will the Atheist Super Council have a vote and blackball me? What's that? Apparently, as long as I don't believe in any deity, I'm still an atheist, no matter what I do with my money? Oh, noes - what now?

Umm... I wondered *similarly* to what adman wondered, and I appreciate that you answered. I hope that I would have asked for clarification in a more polite and not aggressive manner. I simply wondered what the CoSw does that would cause an atheist to choose to pay a tithe to it - just as people sometimes ask me why I continue to participate in some events at the local Catholic church. It is totally your business, and of course you can choose not to answer, and you don't have to prove anything to anyone about what you do or do not believe. Personally, I was curious, because I don't know about the CoSw or Sweden, or what the CoSw does that you choose to support.

So... thanks for answering, because now I learned something about the CoSw, and about Sweden, and I'm sorry that you were offended by how the question was posed.
 

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