Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Mary_H]

Rudy claims to have left Meredith's room and went to her bathroom. While in there he claims to have retrieved the towels and brought them back to Meredith to help stop the bleeding.(since he is trying to save her life according to him at this point) However, the presence of the towels in the Murder room does atleast verify that Guede did go to the bathroom and then back to Meredith's room. Now I dont believe Guede was trying to help Meredith, but he does confirm, with evidence, that he did go to the bathroom and back to Meredith's room. So personally i think there is little to be debated on this point. Though some guilters still try to argue that he fled as soon as Meredith was stabbed.

I am going to remain skeptical that Rudy went to the bathroom for towels, even with what Draca quoted from Micheli: "Then he tried to help rescue, taking a towel from the bathroom, but it proved too small and left immediately soaked in blood, so he took another and resume to dab the wound at this juncture."

Even though it is described that way in Micheli, it is only a description, not a quote of Rudy's actual words; in fact, it could be an assumption. I would like to see Rudy's actual words from before he was influenced by his lawyers.

Sometimes when kids live together, they keep their own towels in their bedrooms, and take them with them to the bathroom. I have been under the impression (probably from Micheli's report, above) that the towels Rudy used were small. We know Amanda found herself without a towel after her shower, which may mean that she was expecting a bath towel to be in the bathroom but it was gone. That would mean, however, that at least one of the towels Rudy used was a bath towel. Has anyone seen pictures of the towels? I can't remember whether Amanda said she forgot her towel in her room.

Evidence Rudy left in the bathroom may have been cleaned up from the floor when Amanda scooted the bath mat across it. I remember something about him leaving bloody fingerprints around the light switch - is it true or not?

ETA: Amanda does say twice in her court testimony that she had forgotten her towel in her bedroom. That lends credence to the probability that Meredith's towels were in her room, too.

 

[Chris C]

I am going to remain skeptical that Rudy went to the bathroom for towels, even with what Draca quoted from Micheli: "Then he tried to help rescue, taking a towel from the bathroom, but it proved too small and left immediately soaked in blood, so he took another and resume to dab the wound at this juncture."

Even though it is described that way in Micheli, it is only a description, not a quote of Rudy's actual words; in fact, it could be an assumption. I would like to see Rudy's actual words from before he was influenced by his lawyers.

Sometimes when kids live together, they keep their own towels in their bedrooms, and take them with them to the bathroom. I have been under the impression (probably from Micheli's report, above) that the towels Rudy used were small. We know Amanda found herself without a towel after her shower, which may mean that she was expecting a bath towel to be in the bathroom but it was gone. That would mean, however, that at least one of the towels Rudy used was a bath towel. Has anyone seen pictures of the towels? I can't remember whether Amanda said she forgot her towel in her room.

Evidence Rudy left in the bathroom may have been cleaned up from the floor when Amanda scooted the bath mat across it. I remember something about him leaving bloody fingerprints around the light switch - is it true or not?

ETA: Amanda does say twice in her court testimony that she had forgotten her towel in her bedroom. That lends credence to the probability that Meredith's towels were in her room, too.

Should be able to find what your looking for from Guede's German Diary, thats where he talks about getting towels from Meredith's bathroom. This is also where he claims to receive a cut on his hand from Meredith's killer. Which basicly means, this is where he said what he said before ever being taken back to italy.

 

[Mary_H]

This is also from Micheli:

"Noticing blood in great abundance in the room of M., and especially from a cut wound to the neck of the girl from which blood flowed, R. had tried to help her, taking her a bath towel to dab the bleeding in just a few seconds, it was still steeped in its turn, so I took a second. On those occasions, according to a statement of G., the K. was still alive and moving, trying also to speak, but he understood only a word or part of speech, ie "f", so as to have tried to write those two letters on the wall."

By the way, the Italian word for towel is asciugamano

 

[Chris C]

This is also from Micheli:

"Noticing blood in great abundance in the room of M., and especially from a cut wound to the neck of the girl from which blood flowed, R. had tried to help her, taking her a bath towel to dab the bleeding in just a few seconds, it was still steeped in its turn, so I took a second. On those occasions, according to a statement of G., the K. was still alive and moving, trying also to speak, but he understood only a word or part of speech, ie "f", so as to have tried to write those two letters on the wall."

By the way, the Italian word for towel is asciugamano

If you have never read Guede's little diary he kept in Germany, you really should. PMF has a translated version of it. This is where he made his first statements. Though I'm willing to bet 90 percent is a load of crap, its the other 10 percent that makes you think.
1. Like where he talks about arriving at around 8:30.
2. Its where he talks about waiting downstairs for Meredith to arrive.
3. Its where he gives his version of the story that places himself in every room in the house. After all, he doesn't know yet what the police have on him.
4. Its where he describes getting his cut on his hand from Meredith's killer. Atleast confirming that he did get cut in the apartment.
5. Its where he talks about using the bathroom when Meredith was killed.
6. Its where he says he arrives at his friends house at around 11:30pm, after Meredith was murdered, but went home first and changed.
7. Its where he talked about Meredith dressed as a vampire on Halloween night. I have often wondered how well known Meredith dressing up as a vampire was known when he made that statement.

Like i said you should really read it. Even if you don't believe 99 percent of what he says.

 

[Mary_H]

Should be able to find what your looking for from Guede's German Diary, thats where he talks about getting towels from Meredith's bathroom. This is also where he claims to receive a cut on his hand from Meredith's killer. Which basicly means, this is where he said what he said before ever being taken back to italy.

Thank you, Chris. Now I know where the Lifetime movie got their version of the party attended by both Rudy and Amanda. Brother.

Yes, Rudy does say he went into the bathroom. He writes: "I took a towel from her bathroom, but in less than a minute it was all soaked. I took another, but it was no use," and "I went to the bathroom, took a towel, and it was soaked."

Not that we are required to believe him.

Interestingly, he included these details from when he changed out of his bloody pants: "I put on the 'Pelle Pelle' ones, I remember because many of my friends said they looked like pajamas."

ETA: "Dear Friends of the Awesome 3b-4B- and 5b classes in Elementary school - You were Marvelous, also with those of the 3A-4A and 5A classes."

He sounds like somebody who knows his goose is cooked.

 

[Antony]

Yes,
I am also informed that Pakistani TV has video of the angry FOA protesters that swarmed Daric Richie's home. Who knew? In related news Romanian teens who have been following the case are said to be overjoyed that Daric changed his mind on Amanda Knox.

http://www.examiner.com/celebrities-in-tacoma/daric-richie-s-sudden-change-verdict-sparks-outrage



Daric is one funny dude.

Needless to say I had never heard of Daric Richie before reading Rose's post. This looks like a stunt to me; anyone who publicly announces a particular POV, then 24 hours later dramatically declares a change of heart (on the basis of unspecified "crucial evidence" in the Massei report) has to have suspect motives.

We can be cautiously optimistic that the truth will belatedly be endorsed by the appeal court next month, and then of all the people left looking foolish, DR will be one of those at the top of the pile.

 

[Chris C]

Thank you, Chris. Now I know where the Lifetime movie got their version of the party attended by both Rudy and Amanda. Brother.

Yes, Rudy does say he went into the bathroom. He writes: "I took a towel from her bathroom, but in less than a minute it was all soaked. I took another, but it was no use," and "I went to the bathroom, took a towel, and it was soaked."

Not that we are required to believe him.

Interestingly, he included these details from when he changed out of his bloody pants: "I put on the 'Pelle Pelle' ones, I remember because many of my friends said they looked like pajamas."

ETA: "Dear Friends of the Awesome 3b-4B- and 5b classes in Elementary school - You were Marvelous, also with those of the 3A-4A and 5A classes."

He sounds like somebody who knows his goose is cooked.

What do you make of his comment about seeing Meredith dressed as a Vampire on halloween. Is it possible he was stalking Meredith? I mean if you see what he has wrote about Knox and how she impressed him and see how he talks about Meredith and knowing what she wore on Halloween. Yet he openly admits to not knowing knox and says he is intimate with Meredith. In the end it gives me the impression he was stalking atleast one of the girls in that apartment.

 

[Katody Matrass]

What do you make of his comment about seeing Meredith dressed as a Vampire on halloween. Is it possible he was stalking Meredith? I mean if you see what he has wrote about Knox and how she impressed him and see how he talks about Meredith and knowing what she wore on Halloween. Yet he openly admits to not knowing knox and says he is intimate with Meredith. In the end it gives me the impression he was stalking atleast one of the girls in that apartment.

IIRC Her photo as vampire was everywhere very soon after the crime.

 

[Fine]

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
12) Was Meredith's blood mixed with Knox's DNA found in Filomena's room?________
Yes, dunno how it might have gotten there for sure, but anywhere Meredith bled she might have done so in Amanda's DNA, after all Amanda lived there. It is also quite possible it was the result of Rudy or a forensic technician walking around in Rudy's bloody shoeprints, and then tracking it into Amanda's DNA. It's an anomaly, there's nothing it 'fits' with.

_________________

Kaosium,

No. No blood was discovered in Filomena's room.

Except for the cat blood seen dripping from the ceiling. (Okay, I made that part up.)

Speaking of cat blood, I know Rose collects translation errors in the Massei Report. Here's my favorite, Rose. Tagliabracci is talking about samples taken from the lower flat in the cottage, where the boys and a cat lived.....


"With reference to other specimens, their interpretation as cat blood was in contradiction with what was found with trace 3, for which it should be concluded that it was human blood." (English Translation, page 246)

"Con riferimento ad altre tracce l'interpretazione fornita di sangue di gatto era in contraddizione con quanto emerso con la traccia 3 per la quale si doveva concludere che vi fosse DNA umano." (Original Italian, page 263)


Hint: No scientist ever claimed to have discovered human blood in the downstairs flat.

///

 

[Chris C]

IIRC Her photo as vampire was everywhere very soon after the crime.

How soon? Guede wrote this while he was still in Germany.

How specific were the other articles concerning her wearing the vampire outfit.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article426558.ece

 

[capealadin]

Yes, all good points.

My opinion is that most of the posters that actively participate at PMF do so because they believe that Raffaele and Amanda are guilty and they hate the crime and the brutal murder of Ms. Kercher. Some dislike of those that they believe commited the crime would be normal. There are a few that enjoy hating on them but I don't believe that is the norm. Can you honestly state that posters like Fiona, thoughtful, and Fine, not to mention several others look at this as a way to hate against Amanda and Raffaele?

As far as outing goes, it works both ways. When I was active at PMF I received several PM's threatening to out me as a close friend of the Knox family. I had one poster that assured me that I was really Madison and was heartbroken when I assured him I was not. I had several go back to my earliest posts at VFW to find more information about me and have been attacked both from the standpoint of my supposed gender as well as my alleged sexual orientation. I had one poster here make a vile post claiming I was performing an oral sex act on somebody, a post that was immediately deleted by the mods. Believe me, I get my share. I have spoken against the policy of outing both at PMF as well as at sites that support innocence.

When the open letter was published from PMF with many of the real names involved, I implored those at IIP (old public forum) not to go the route of outing people and asked Bruce to put a stop to it. He chose not to do so which is his right as it is his website. I do not agree with the decision he made. I feel it is important to take the high road on this regardless if the other side does not.

I have unfortunately seen a few places that I would refer to as hate sites and in my opinion PMF and TJMK do not come close. My goal is to have a civil discussion with those on both sides of the question of guilt or innocence. Calling each other names does not help that discussion remain civil and leads to an unhealthy back and forth of pure rhetoric and venom.

BRAVA, Rose, BRAVA!!!!

This is refreshing. Standing up, and speaking as your own person, in a mature, well thought out way. You are not spinning, moving the goalposts, dodging actual topics, and trying to muddle things. Or EVADE..

This is indeed taking the high road.

There are no winners in this case. None.

 

[Katody Matrass]

How soon? Guede wrote this while he was still in Germany.

How specific were the other articles concerning her wearing the vampire outfit.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article426558.ece

The answer is in the article. It has the vampire photo and is dated November 5th. I'm not sure but it seems to me Guede started his little diary only after his arrest.

 

[Chris C]

The answer is in the article. It has the vampire photo and is dated November 5th. I'm not sure but it seems to me Guede started his little diary only after his arrest.

Yes but if I remember correctly Guede was more specific as to the type of party he attended. Or maybe it could just be the wording. Don't get me wrong. I dont honestly believe Meredith planned on meeting him the next day. I'm just showing that he has made comments to make one believe that he was stalking one or both, Amanda and Meredith. He has made comments that he has approached both girls, that he has watched both girls, that he noticed them in passing, that he waited downstairs at the guys apartment waiting for Meredith to come home. Sounds like more than a crush.

 

[Dan O.]

IIRC Her photo as vampire was everywhere very soon after the crime.

Didn't she post her vampire photo and an account of where she was that night on her own Facebook page before the murder? We know Rudy was using Facebook And the press was publishing Meredith's name by the 3rd of November.

 

[Antony]

Didn't she post her vampire photo and an account of where she was that night on her own Facebook page before the murder? We know Rudy was using Facebook And the press was publishing Meredith's name by the 3rd of November.

Interesting and a bit ominous that the police nailed their colours to the mast from the very first day about whether there had been a break-in:

Last night local reports ... said police had ruled out a theory that she disturbed a burglar as nothing was missing from the apartment.

... and no mention of the broken window.

 

[billyryan]

BRAVA, Rose, BRAVA!!!!

This is refreshing. Standing up, and speaking as your own person, in a mature, well thought out way. You are not spinning, moving the goalposts, dodging actual topics, and trying to muddle things. Or EVADE..

This is indeed taking the high road.

There are no winners in this case. None.

You were very vocal in your support of Frank Sfarzo in relation to his opinion that Nara's hearing is perfect and she does not have any psychiatric problems.You do not seem to be coming out in support of him in regards to his present problems

He was pushed and hit by members of the thug squad the day Rudy Guede was convicted,the thug squad looked in over his shoulder to read his notes during court proceedings,prevented him at times entering the court,broke into his house pinned him to the floor and assaulted him,then charged him with assaulting them and tried to get a psychiatrist to declare him insane.Then he makes an allegation that the police can depend on the judges to believe their account no matter what

My opinion of Frank is that he is fearlessly bringing the story of how the Italian police force are little more than fascist thugs to the world,up until now Mignini and his henchmen have been able to keep most of what is going on from the local population with their gestapo tactics but Frank has found a way with his complaint to the CPJ to challenge those in authority to investigate abuse of power

 

[quadraginta]

Interesting and a bit ominous that the police nailed their colours to the mast from the very first day about whether there had been a break-in:

It is interesting, but I don't know that it is particularly ominous. It tells me that there were reasons they suspected that the break-in was staged before there was much opportunity for Knox or Sollicitos' demeanor and statements after the crime was discovered to color their perceptions.

... and no mention of the broken window.

Which only tells me that it wasn't mentioned in that Mirror article. Not why. Did the police not mention it because they wanted to be sparing with initial information about the crime scene (a common tactic with most all law enforcement public statements)? Did Pisa know and not mention it in that report? Did the Mirror just not include it in the article?

How do we tell?

 

[Kaosium]

Yes,
I am also informed that Pakistani TV has video of the angry FOA protesters that swarmed Daric Richie's home. Who knew? In related news Romanian teens who have been following the case are said to be overjoyed that Daric changed his mind on Amanda Knox.

http://www.examiner.com/celebrities-in-tacoma/daric-richie-s-sudden-change-verdict-sparks-outrage



Daric is one funny dude.

LOL! I caught up with this a little last night, and I will agree that Daric is a funny guy. I think it possible that some people are taking him too seriously, but I imagine they would tell me I don't take everything seriously enough.

Both could be true.

 

[katy_did]

This is also from Micheli:

"Noticing blood in great abundance in the room of M., and especially from a cut wound to the neck of the girl from which blood flowed, R. had tried to help her, taking her a bath towel to dab the bleeding in just a few seconds, it was still steeped in its turn, so I took a second. On those occasions, according to a statement of G., the K. was still alive and moving, trying also to speak, but he understood only a word or part of speech, ie "f", so as to have tried to write those two letters on the wall."

By the way, the Italian word for towel is asciugamano

That's just an error from Google:

Notando sangue in gran copia nella stanza di M., e soprattutto una ferita da taglio al collo della ragazza da cui sgorgava sangue, R. aveva cercato di soccorrerla, prendendo nel bagno di lei un asciugamano per tamponare l’emorragia: nel giro di pochi secondi, si era tuttavia intriso a sua volta, così ne aveva preso un secondo.

It means that he took a towel from Meredith's bathroom, not that it was a bath towel (the bolded part more literally, "taking in her bathroom a towel in order to staunch the bleeding").

I have to say that I've never lived in a shared house where we didn't keep at least one towel in the bathroom for drying our hands, though usually I would keep a bath towel in my room as well. Assuming there were no towels left in the bathroom that morning, I think it very likely Rudy is telling the truth about where he got them. I can't see a reason he would lie about that, and it would have been easy to disprove if untrue just by asking the other three girls who lived there.

 

[Kaosium]

_________________

Kaosium,

No. No blood was discovered in Filomena's room.

Except for the cat blood seen dripping from the ceiling. (Okay, I made that part up.)

LOL, and thanks for the correction. However, outside the odd shape, isn't there something special about that stain, or is it just that's the only place outside the bathroom that Amanda and Meredith's DNA mixed?

Speaking of cat blood, I know Rose collects translation errors in the Massei Report. Here's my favorite, Rose. Tagliabracci is talking about samples taken from the lower flat in the cottage, where the boys and a cat lived.....

"With reference to other specimens, their interpretation as cat blood was in contradiction with what was found with trace 3, for which it should be concluded that it was human blood." (English Translation, page 246)

"Con riferimento ad altre tracce l'interpretazione fornita di sangue di gatto era in contraddizione con quanto emerso con la traccia 3 per la quale si doveva concludere che vi fosse DNA umano." (Original Italian, page 263)

You did that on purpose, Fine! If I remember correctly, you speak Italian. You could have just told me what it really meant, but noooooo. You knew I would have to put that through Google Translate and simply for the cheap thrill you wanted to see if you could make my brain explode by remote control! You fiend!

Whimpering in abeyance as it came up, a cunning plan began to form. What would happen were I to put the results through Google Translate again? In other words, try to actually translate it to English? What language to choose though? I found 'Galician' on the list, which surprised me as I wasn't aware that Galicia had its own indigenous language. I'm assuming that's the region of southern Poland that once made up the northeastern frontier of the Austro-Hungarian empire. That's pretty cool so I picked it out and got this:

With Regards to the Interpretation of other trace(s) of blood cat was in contradiction with the conclusions of the track is 3(for) Which we had to Concluder That there was human DNA

From this:

With regard to the interpretation of other traces of blood cat was in contradiction with the conclusions of the track 3 for which we had to conclude that there was human DNA

They are different! I'm not sure why, but words become mysteriously capitalized, other words are changed subtly. As 'conclude' becomes 'concluder' I wonder if that means 'Amazer' is secretly Galician?! Google Translate has exposed her sinister 'deception!'

Hint: No scientist ever claimed to have discovered human blood in the downstairs flat.

I notice that somehow the DNA became blood, which is especially curious as "DNA" in the original Italian would seem to be a huge clue as to what it might mean in English, perhaps 'DNA?' There must be a subtle nuance that I missed.

Other than that it seems to say they found human DNA in cats blood in trace three?