Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[RWVBWL]

Incredible!

Thanks for the info Katody Matrass!
http://www.cpj.org/2011/04/journalists-threatened-for-reporting-on-murder-cas.php

"Sfarzo told CPJ his troubles started on October 28, 2008, the day Knox and Sollecito were indicted and a third defendant was convicted of murdering Kercher. Several members of Squadra Mobile, Sfarzo told CPJ, approached him just outside the city court (Corte di Assise di Perugia) and started to push and hit him. "You are pissing us off!"--they told him, referring to his coverage.

When the trial of Knox and Sollecito began that December, Squadra Mobile continued to harass him. They regularly tried to prevent him from entering the court; seized his cellphone and went through his contacts and text messages; mouthed insults at him from across the courtroom; and stared over his shoulder as he took notes. "This was done in the presence of the judge, the Carabinieri [the military police], and the court guards, but they would do nothing," Sfarzo told CPJ.

The harassment reached its peak on September 28, 2010, when five officers of Squadra Mobile forcibly entered Sfarzo's apartment. They did not produce a warrant or show their badges, Sfarzo told CPJ. Four of the five shoved Sfarzo to the ground, struck him, handcuffed him, and climbed on top of him, crushing his air supply, he told CPJ. They stopped when a neighbor, disturbed by the commotion, showed up, Sfarzo said.

Next, the officers took Sfarzo to the Perugia city hospital, where they claimed he had attacked them; they persuaded a doctor to issue a medical report for the injuries Sfarzo was alleged to have caused. In addition, the Squadra Mobile officers brought Sfarzo before a psychiatrist, demanding that she issue him a certificate of insanity. To prove that Sfarzo was mentally ill, the officers produced Sfarzo's reporter's notebook on the Kercher murder case, which they had seized from his apartment. "They told the doctor that I was pathologically obsessed with the case, that I was so fixated on it I must be insane," Sfarzo told CPJ. The psychiatrist refused to issue the certificate.

From the hospital, the officers brought a handcuffed and injured Sfarzo to their headquarters, where, in the blogger's words, they "displayed me as a trophy," referring to him as "the bastard who defends Amanda [Knox]." The officers refused Sfarzo's requests to call his lawyer or his relatives, and put him in a cell for the night.

The next day, the officers brought Sfarzo before a local judge, who validated his arrest and indicted him on several articles of Italy's penal code for "using violence and threats to resist public officials" and "injuring an officer." Sfarzo was released pending a trial in May. He faces up to six years in prison if convicted. "The police can count on the complicity of judges," Sfarzo told CPJ. Police officers, he added, are sure of their impunity."

Which story has more truth?:
Frank Sfarzo, aka Francesco Sforza, attacked 5 police officers that came inside his apartment,
or that Frank Sfarzo, aka Francesco Sforza, was assaulted, arrested, jailed, denied access to a lawyer and not allowed to call his family.

Jeez, does any of this sound similiar to what Amanda Knox, Raffaele Sollecito or Patrick Lumumba went thru?
Now add Frank Sfarzo, aka Franceso Sforza, to the group.

Something terrible is going on in Perugia, Italy.
Wow...

ETA: I have just added Frank's real name, Franceso Sforza, to my post simply because while doing a Google search on his arrest, I found 1 of the pro-guilt websites stating this: "Frank Sfarzo TM has never been arrested, simply because that is a made-up name."

 

[Kaosium]

This one is bigger:

In Italy, journalists threatened for reporting on murder - open letter from Committee to Protect Journalists

Frank Sfarzo's ordeal in the hands of Perugian cops described in disturbing details, along with long list of Mignini's attacks on the journalists.

Your Excellency, we are urging you to ensure that reporters and writers are not afraid to cover, comment on, and criticize the activities of Perugia authorities. This is particularly pressing now that the appeal of two defendants in the Kercher murder case goes on at a local court.

We ask you to ensure that the politically motivated lawsuit against Perugia blogger Frank Sfarzo is immediately scrapped and that outside investigators are assigned to conduct an investigation into the September 28-29, 2010, abusive actions of Squadra Mobile officers against him.

Thank you for that post, Katody. I've been wondering for a while when people would begin to notice these things, now it seems people have finally begun to realize there's something rotten emanating from this 'investigation.'

 

[Katody Matrass]

I hope Frank is OK. He hasn't updated his blog since the 17th.

Yes, looks like there is comment moderation on, and no new comments get through.

 

[RoseMontague]

Incredible!

Thanks for the info Katody Matrass!
http://www.cpj.org/2011/04/journalists-threatened-for-reporting-on-murder-cas.php



Which story has more truth?:
Frank Sfarzo, aka Francesco Sforza, attacked 5 police officers that came inside his apartment,
or that Frank Sfarzo, aka Francesco Sforza, was assaulted, arrested, jailed, denied access to a lawyer and not allowed to call his family.

Jeez, does any of this sound similiar to what Amanda Knox, Raffaele Sollecito or Patrick Lumumba went thru?
Now add Frank Sfarzo, aka Franceso Sforza, to the group.

Something terrible is going on in Perugia, Italy.
Wow...

ETA: I have just added Frank's real name, Franceso Sforza, to my post simply because while doing a Google search on his arrest, I found 1 of the pro-guilt websites stating this: "Frank Sfarzo TM has never been arrested, simply because that is a made-up name."

SB at PMF(org) seems to really having it in for Frank, not caring at all if his story is true or not. Only saying it doesn't matter because he is a blogger on the internet that doesn't post using his real name, similar to most everybody else here and there as well. I guess it doesn't matter if we get persecuted either because we are just avatars and they can't really hurt an avatar, or something like that.

We have had a lot of comments here recently from PMF regulars really praising Frank's stance on what he believes is the truth about Bedside (I'm using her avatar). Let's see how these folks react to what is going on with Frank now.

 

[Chris C]

SB at PMF(org) seems to really having it in for Frank, not caring at all if his story is true or not. Only saying it doesn't matter because he is a blogger on the internet that doesn't post using his real name, similar to most everybody else here and there as well. I guess it doesn't matter if we get persecuted either because we are just avatars and they can't really hurt an avatar, or something like that.

We have had a lot of comments here recently from PMF regulars really praising Frank's stance on what he believes is the truth about Bedside (I'm using her avatar). Let's see how these folks react to what is going on with Frank now.

Actually Franks name would be what is called a pen name. Though most commonly used by authors, pen names are used by others to help protect identity. Though in Franks case it didn't do him much good.

 

[Ampulla of Vater]

I hope Frank is OK. He hasn't updated his blog since the 17th.

His computer broke and he is afraid to use his cellphone to send anything specific.

 

[Katody Matrass]

Candace reposts the letter

some photos and interesting insights there:
Investigative reporter Frank Sfarzo of Perugia Shock: His non-stop blogging about the Amanda Knox case led to a beating by Perugia police, says the Committee to Protect Journalists. This photo, taken by me, has been posted innumerable times without permission on Amanda Knox hate sites.

 

[RoseMontague]

Candace reposts the letter

some photos and interesting insights there:
Investigative reporter Frank Sfarzo of Perugia Shock: His non-stop blogging about the Amanda Knox case led to a beating by Perugia police, says the Committee to Protect Journalists. This photo, taken by me, has been posted innumerable times without permission on Amanda Knox hate sites.

I don't agree with the term "hate sites" and I wish that those that use this term to describe PMF and TJMK would stop using it. Just my opinion.

 

[HumanityBlues]

I don't agree with the term "hate sites" and I wish that those that use this term to describe PMF and TJMK would stop using it. Just my opinion.

You might feel differently if it was your family and friends being discussed and libeled on those sites. Easy for us to not agree with it when we have the luxury of posting under made up names. Some people don't have that luxury.

No offense Rose, but if your real name was being used, they would have taken it, googled anything they could find, and use whatever info they could find to intimidate, harass, and libel you. Their track record speaks for that. Look at what they've tried to do to people just on this forum? One person even used an alleged picture of Kevin Lowe as an avatar to harass him, "Mary H" on the picture of someone's behind on a chair, etc. etc. This isn't even the tip of the iceberg.

Every time I visit those sites its "wow, who are they harassing today?". So, my question is, what is the threshold for a hate site? Your standards seem a little high.

 

[RoseMontague]

You might feel differently if it was your family and friends being discussed and libeled on those sites. Easy for us to not agree with it when we have the luxury of posting under made up names. Some people don't have that luxury.

No offense Rose, but if your real name was being used, they would have taken it, googled anything they could find, and use whatever info they could find to intimidate, harass, and libel you. Their track record speaks for that. Look at what they've tried to do to people just on this forum? One person even used an alleged picture of Kevin Lowe as an avatar to harass him, "Mary H" on the picture of someone's behind on a chair, etc. etc. This isn't even the tip of the iceberg.

Every time I visit those sites its "wow, who are they harassing today?". So, my question is, what is the threshold for a hate site? Your standards seem a little high.

Yes, all good points.

My opinion is that most of the posters that actively participate at PMF do so because they believe that Raffaele and Amanda are guilty and they hate the crime and the brutal murder of Ms. Kercher. Some dislike of those that they believe commited the crime would be normal. There are a few that enjoy hating on them but I don't believe that is the norm. Can you honestly state that posters like Fiona, thoughtful, and Fine, not to mention several others look at this as a way to hate against Amanda and Raffaele?

As far as outing goes, it works both ways. When I was active at PMF I received several PM's threatening to out me as a close friend of the Knox family. I had one poster that assured me that I was really Madison and was heartbroken when I assured him I was not. I had several go back to my earliest posts at VFW to find more information about me and have been attacked both from the standpoint of my supposed gender as well as my alleged sexual orientation. I had one poster here make a vile post claiming I was performing an oral sex act on somebody, a post that was immediately deleted by the mods. Believe me, I get my share. I have spoken against the policy of outing both at PMF as well as at sites that support innocence.

When the open letter was published from PMF with many of the real names involved, I implored those at IIP (old public forum) not to go the route of outing people and asked Bruce to put a stop to it. He chose not to do so which is his right as it is his website. I do not agree with the decision he made. I feel it is important to take the high road on this regardless if the other side does not.

I have unfortunately seen a few places that I would refer to as hate sites and in my opinion PMF and TJMK do not come close. My goal is to have a civil discussion with those on both sides of the question of guilt or innocence. Calling each other names does not help that discussion remain civil and leads to an unhealthy back and forth of pure rhetoric and venom.

 

[NewtonTrino]

If the stories of police corruption are true then in my mind it doesn't matter whether or not Amanda is guilty, she should be released.

I didn't realize Italy had such a low free press rating, I was giving them the benefit of the doubt. It seems like they don't deserve that though.

 

[RoseMontague]

His computer broke and he is afraid to use his cellphone to send anything specific.

You got this information from a reliable source?

 

[Ampulla of Vater]

You got this information from a reliable source?

yes

 

[pilot padron]

Their track record speaks for that. Look at what they've tried to do to people just on this forum? One person even used an alleged picture of Kevin Lowe as an avatar to harass him, "Mary H" on the picture of someone's behind on a chair, etc. etc. This isn't even the tip of the iceberg.

Yes, and lest an impartial observer get the impression that only the 'hate sites' you attempt to demean are the only 'bad guys', please consider:

If one goes not far indeed below the 'tip' of your iceberg analogy you must also includes the ever so touching avatar used for months on this very site about the murder of Meredith Kercher.....
that ever so respectful avatar here showing a knife impaled in another human being's throat.

That goes well beyond your examples of the 'hate site's harassing or subtle ribbing avatars...it is obscene and inexcusable.

But your 'track record' and 'iceberg' exaggerations of course conveniently omitted that hometown gem of an avatar.

There is plenty of blame on both sides as Rose says so accurately yet graciously.
Superficial, biased, factually unbased arguments such as your 'iceberg' only inflame and irritate rather than help.

 

[PhantomWolf]

I see it's back to the bickering, well time to try and put things back on track.

Thanks for the floor plan, that was very helpful.

I have been looking for a timeline, but the older ones I have found are clearly incorrect with things in them that are now known to be incorrect. Does anyone know of a more recent version of a timeline for Guilt and one for Innocence based on the data that is known to be true?

Thanks.

 

[HumanityBlues]

Deleted for Phantomwolf (although Padron, your argument was a ludicrous false equivalence, and I'll leave it at that. If you actually want a reply, you can PM me)

 

[billyryan]

This one is bigger:

In Italy, journalists threatened for reporting on murder - open letter from Committee to Protect Journalists

Frank Sfarzo's ordeal in the hands of Perugian cops described in disturbing details, along with long list of Mignini's attacks on the journalists.

Your Excellency, we are urging you to ensure that reporters and writers are not afraid to cover, comment on, and criticize the activities of Peruvian authorities. This is particularly pressing now that the appeal of two defendants in the Kercher murder case goes on at a local court.

We ask you to ensure that the politically motivated lawsuit against Perugia blogger Frank Sfarzo is immediately scrapped and that outside investigators are assigned to conduct an investigation into the September 28-29, 2010, abusive actions of Squadra Mobile officers against him.

All the rest of us that have got drawn into this monstrous miscarriage of justice,do so from a position of safety,not so Frank Sfarzo,he has put his personal safety and liberty at risk.

On may 16 Amanda knox goes on trial for slandering the Peruvian police saying that they hit her during her all night interrogation,she faces time added on to her sentence if convicted

Today the CPJ organisation who represents journalists say the very people who interrogated Amanda threatened beat kicked and bring bogus charges against anyone who criticized the investigation of Merediths Kerchers murder,or casts doubt on the guilt of Amanda and Raffaele

when will the courts face the facts of what is really happening in Perugia,this CPJ organisation might just be the first to speak out

 

[RoseMontague]

I see it's back to the bickering, well time to try and put things back on track.

Thanks for the floor plan, that was very helpful.

I have been looking for a timeline, but the older ones I have found are clearly incorrect with things in them that are now known to be incorrect. Does anyone know of a more recent version of a timeline for Guilt and one for Innocence based on the data that is known to be true?

Thanks.

Dan O. has the best timelines that I have seen, perhaps he can post his latest, I know he has been updating them constantly.

 

[Katody Matrass]

Yes, and lest an impartial observer get the impression that only the 'hate sites' you attempt to demean are the only 'bad guys', please consider:

If one goes not far indeed below the 'tip' of your iceberg analogy you must also includes the ever so touching avatar used for months on this very site about the murder of Meredith Kercher.....
that ever so respectful avatar here showing a knife impaled in another human being's throat.

That goes well beyond your examples of the 'hate site's harassing or subtle ribbing avatars...it is obscene and inexcusable.

But your 'track record' and 'iceberg' exaggerations of course conveniently omitted that hometown gem of an avatar.

There is plenty of blame on both sides as Rose says so accurately yet graciously.
Superficial, biased, factually unbased arguments such as your 'iceberg' only inflame and irritate rather than help.

An avatar depicting Meredith Kercher with knife in her throat? That was sick and I can't believe forum admins allowed it.

I share RoseMontague's optimism that dialogue grounded in logic and reason is possible and beneficial, at least with some of the guilt proponents.

What gives PMFs the bad name in my eyes are the attacks on distressed and suffering family members. When I looked there recently they had both Raffaele's and Amanda's sisters in the crosshairs. With Amanda's sister being described as prostitute. This is inexcusable and responsible administrators should remove and prevent any such things.

 

[theRealBob]

You find the hickie to be the most convincing piece? What does it convince you of? Though I doubt by the time the interrogators arrived days later the hickie was all that noticable.

That's not a hickey. The mark on Amanda's neck looks more like a thumbnail gouge from someone trying to strangle her than anything else. (Meredith perhaps ?)

But don't place me on the wrong side for that web comment.

I believe Raff and Amanda are both innocent