Moderated Obama birth certificate CT / SSN CT / Birther discussion

[Upchurch]

Yes, we know that people of your *independent* political persuasion think WND is a crank source.

Yeah, why would anyone consider WND a crank source when they publish bad photoshop jobs as real and criticize the real photos as fakes? Or, for that matter, admit to having published misinformation? Or that play into the Birther beliefs that you claim you don't believe but cite endlessly?

What's not to trust about an information source that has that kind of stellar reputation?

 

[Arus808]

Yeah, why would anyone consider WND a crank source when they publish bad photoshop jobs as real and criticize the real photos as fakes? Or, for that matter, admit to having published misinformation? Or that play into the Birther beliefs that you claim you don't believe but cite endlessly?

And on the Note of World Nut Daily: farrah has a mad

http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/04/14/world_net_daily_mad

When my colleague Justin Elliott explained how WorldNetDaily invented the "Obama spent $2 million fighting birther lawsuits" claim (short version: $2 million is what the Obama campaign paid a law firm in total, and in WND's imagination the only thing a presidential campaign needs a law firm for is hiding birth certificates), WND's founder got mad and called him names. (All of this was right after they published Jack Cashill's embarrassing Photoshop follies.)




WND was, I guess, not happy with my colleague's coverage of its unhappiness, because today it attempted to smear him in two separate but equally amusing articles. The first, by Farah himself, is just a lot of words calling Elliott a punk while never once actually acknowledging that WND's "$2 million" figure is false. No, WND is right because its "investigation" into the matter is a three-part series, and no one can possibly be wrong at such great length.


The best part of Farah's commentary is when he argues that Elliott is wrong and WND's reporter is right because of their respective bios. While Elliott has merely written for various places, WND's reporter was in the Army and is "one of the most remarkable young women I have ever met." Take that, Justin: Joseph Farah doesn't think you're remarkable!

The rest at the link.

 

[Arus808]

I don't know why Obama won't request his so-called "long form" birth certificate be copied and published. It could be something on it.

easy to know why. because of folks like you

Because of folks like Farrah and corsi

because of racists like andy martin, and dr kate.

because of self hating black men like James manning

because of Muslim hating folks like Dr. Orly Taitz and Pamela Barnett

Because of sedition stirring morons like Sharon Rondeau

Because of ambulance chasing lawyers like Apuzzo, Berg and Donofrio



the only people clamoring for his release of documentation that he doesn't have and cannot get are characters who have shown to have less than stellar reputations, and are known kooks.



He doesn't have to do anything to placate the morons of our country.

 

[BeAChooser]

It's actually a response to the accusation that Obama's birth records were being treated differently from everyone else's records (ie, the accusation that the Governor and/or the DOH were refusing to release those records when they should have released them).

No, it looks to me more like an admission that the so-called original "long form" birth certificate is a document that is subject to the same provisions in the law as any other … the law that states "ANY" document can be "copied" and provided to a "registrant" because according to the law a registrant has a "direct and tangible interest" in the document.

Specifically, this accusation here on October 26th, 2008 from your buddies at World Net Daily, where they make the utterly false claim that "WND has learned that Hawaii's Gov. Linda Lingle has placed the candidate's birth certificate under seal and instructed the state's Department of Health to make sure no one in the press obtains access to the original document under any circumstances."

Actually, it does appear they've tried to do that. They've even lied in the press about what the law allows them to do.

 

[BeAChooser]

The "lie" stuff is a little harsh. There are like 3 threads on this silly topic here. The good doc was identified in one of the others.

It's not harsh since he said the good doc was identified "in this very thread". I find no mention of the doctor's name in this thread and apparently neither can you. It's not harsh since he then chastised me for not reading this thread carefully, so presumably he was claiming he did and that I missed the reference to the Doctor's name. Which is obviously false.

Originally Posted by ANTPogo
You'd be wrong. It was Dr. Rodney T. West, an obstetrician who spent virtually his entire life and career in Hawaii, and was in the Navy during World War II (he was actually at Pearl Harbor when the Japanese attacked, and used his medical skills to aid the wounded in the aftermath).

According to http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=87233 , some of the claims in ANTPogo's link have been more than a little embellished. They interviewed Barbara Nelson and she reportedly said

"I don't know in what capacity [West] knew about this particular birth."

and

she said the assumption that West delivered the baby, or that she said that, were just wrong.

and

"[West] never said to me, 'I delivered a baby,'" Nelson said.

And how convenient that all the folks named in her story are dead so the story can't be verified. It's funny how you folks will latch on to the unverifiable recollections of this women (who is obviously a highly partisan Obama supporter), but immediately discount the recollections of the Ayers family mail carrier, Allen Hulton, who said he met Obama outside the Ayers family residence long before Obama claims to have first met Ayers, that Mr. Obama explained that he had taken the train out from Chicago to visit the Ayers' in order to thank them for their help with his "education", and that Ayer's parents boasted to him about helping "a brilliant young black man". All at a time when the Obama camp claims he had not met the Ayers' family.

BaC, Do you live in the United States? If so, have you noticed the HIPAA forms that you receive when you receive medical care? Do you understand why those laws are relevant here?

LOL! Now you're going to hide behind HIPAA? LOL!

 

[332nd]

No, it looks to me more like an admission that the so-called original "long form" birth certificate is a document that is subject to the same provisions in the law as any other … the law that states "ANY" document can be "copied" and provided to a "registrant" because according to the law a registrant has a "direct and tangible interest" in the document.



Actually, it does appear they've tried to do that. They've even lied in the press about what the law allows them to do.

Wow... so now you can't even post what you think is evidence... Why are you afraid to do so?

 

[BeAChooser]

But I'm glad to see this thread (And the ensuing comedy) is still active.

Could that be because, like Obama, you have a reason for wanting this controversy to continue? One that isn't necessarily in the best interests of the country?

 

[Kthulhut Fhtagn]

Could that be because, like Obama, you have a reason for wanting this controversy to continue? One that isn't necessarily in the best interests of the country?

INGENIOUS! The government conspiracy of Obama's birth certificate is a government conspiracy! Now you not only get to sit with the big kids and away from that crazy birther table, you get to pander to them by claiming Obama is deliberately attempting to mislead the US people because. *claps* Bravo, sir, bravo.

 

[Zep]

Could that be because, like Obama, you have a reason for wanting this controversy to continue? One that isn't necessarily in the best interests of the country?

Say what?

Why would Obama want to encourage this dwindling crowd of nutters at all? If I was an evil dictator bent on my own evil, villainous plans for global domination, the last thing I would seek to encourage is a bunch of silly little twerps like the birthers getting under my feet.

So yep, you're just chain-yanking, aren't you.

 

[BeAChooser]

So your logic is that crazy people ... crazy because there is literally no dispute here... would take up arms on this matter and those, convienently allow Obama and his party to impose some sort of tyranical rule to put down this rebellion?

Yep. That makes perfect sense to me.

Here, from Obama's Department Of Homeland Security ... a memo that they sent out to police around the country in 2009 ...

http://www.fas.org/irp/eprint/rightwing.pdf

(U//FOUO) Rightwing Extremism: Current Economic and Political
Climate Fueling Resurgence in Radicalization and Recruitment

... snip ...

The DHS/Office of Intelligence and Analysis (I&A) has no specific information that domestic rightwing terrorists are currently planning acts of violence, but rightwing extremists may be gaining new recruits by playing on their fears about several emergent issues.

What better issue than that Obama is not a legitimate President?

http://www.teapartyactivists.com/tea-party-thoughs/the-rise-of-the-new-right-nothing-new/

This is my take on the MSNBC show “The Rise Of The New Right”.

Not shockingly Chris Mathews in his opening statement says that the Tea Party is angry and made sure to point out that this was not so much about politics but had real overtones of class warfare and racial resentment.

... snip ...

The first part ... snip ... of the report was about militia groups, not about the Tea Party at all, although Mathews constantly used visual cues to try and link the two. When they interviewed the Michigan Militia members, they openly said that the Tea Party thought that they were too radical. In all fairness they then pointed out that law enforcement officials do not believe the Michigan Militia is an threat, but immediately afterwards Chris Mathews then insinuated that their were other more radial groups out there.

The report then went on to discuss the “Birther” movement.

http://www.alternet.org/story/14705...eds_bust_them_or_leave_them_alone?page=entire

Right-Wing Extremists Organize and Promote Violence on Facebook -- Should the Feds Bust Them Or Leave Them Alone?

... snip ...

Take the American Resistance Movement, a network of militia groups that vows to take up arms against what it claims is an increasingly tyrannical government, should that government ever turn on its people.

... snip ...

Robert Kenehan, member of the Central Texas Militia and Three Per Center ... snip ... His new page is filled with information about the New World Order, the birther movement, links to various independent non-state militias, and images including some of him holding a semiautomatic weapon in front of a Gadsden and an American flag. Where do you draw the line?

Why does Obama want to give folks like this ammunition with which to do recruitment? Hmmmmmmm?

 

[BenBurch]

Only half? That's a pretty low estimate.

No, to be really fair only about 25% or so. But the GOP couldn't get elected to dog catcher in most places if they lost 25% of the people who vote for them.

 

[Kthulhut Fhtagn]

Here, from Obama's Department Of Homeland Security ... a memo that they sent out to police around the country in 2009 ...

...[snip]...

Why does Obama want to give folks like this ammunition with which to do recruitment? Hmmmmmmm?

Hahaha, wow. Really? You agree that Obama is a US citizen, but your reason for demanding that he show his birth certificate is a fear that he's using the issue to incite open revolution so he can violently suppress it and declare martial law?

 

[BeAChooser]

You keep implying that there's something nefarious in the document, I wonder why.

No, I'm implying that not releasing that document is causing potentially dangerous divisiveness in the country ... and wondering why Obama would allow that to continue and grow. As I stated above, I believe that Obama was born in the US. But that's only my belief. That doesn't change the fact that a growing number of people in the US are questioning Obama's legitimacy to be President simply because he refuses to ask the Hawaiian DoH to release a certified copy of his so-called "long form" original birth certificate and publish it. And that doubt is potentially dangerous to the nation for the reasons I've noted ... and which your side of this debate has been unable to effectively challenge.

 

[332nd]

Still dodging when it comes to providing the evidence Bac?

 

[Taarkin]

Hahaha, wow. Really? You agree that Obama is a US citizen, but your reason for demanding that he show his birth certificate is a fear that he's using the issue to incite open revolution so he can violently suppress it and declare martial law?

Deep end status: gone off.

 

[CptColumbo]

Got it. You are incapable of doing so. Point to me.

You see her race. I just see that she looks like a sweet lady. I'd say you are the racist.

I said "I don't judge a person's character on how they look. That is a tactic used by most racists." You are the person basing his opinion of her character on the way she looks.
Point to me.

Yes it is, and there you go acting like a racist again. I just see Obama as "The President" … a incompetent, lying, socialist one.

Your point has failed to be made, as the subject was whether a minority of people who are unable to comprehend a concept like, a majority of people in this country wanting a Black person as their leader, constituted an interest to National Security.

It does not.

There you go again, acting like a racist. I've said NOTHING to suggest that I dislike Obama because of his race. NOTHING. It you think I have, then point it out. You can link any thread or post on this forum to prove I've made a racist comment. But you won't because you can't. You're playing the race card without cause … which makes you the racist.

There you go, showing a complete lack of reading comprehension (this seems to come up quite a bit in your posts). I never mentioned you as a racist. You also dishonestly cut my statement off. Point to me.

You are really bad at this.

No I don't. I listed the exact statements in the law that would allow Obama to request that a copy be made of his so-called original "long form" birth certificate, so that it could be published legally, either by the DoH or by him. You simply ignored those statements. So that makes you the liar, CC … and a rather bad one, since anyone reading my posts can see that what I just said is absolutely true. Your side in this debate is digging itself farther and farther into a hole with these repeated lies.

As has been shown to you; you are mistaken or rather the people who do your thinking for you are mistaken. Point to me.

That's debatable, but in any case the law specifically states that "the registrant" (that would be Obama in this case) has a "direct and tangible interest". Didn't you bother to read the law at the link I provided above?

What is needed to prove where a person is born? Their "Place of Birth" on a state certified document. Which is shown on the federally recognized document release by the Obama campaign. There is therefore, no direct and tagible reason for the state to release a copy of the original document or for President Obama to ask for a copy of the document.

Point to me, again. This is boring.

That's an absolutely hilarious statement coming from democrats whose party over the last several decades has violated the law repeatedly. But in any case, are you sure that a President can't defy state laws under some circumstances? Ever hear of the Supremacy Clause? Ever hear of Executive Order #13083?

An executive order by the President only affects the Executive Branch not state goverments. Governors executive orders are usually based on existing constitutional or statutory powers of the Governor. Neither one can compell the DoH to release a document that is cannot legally release.

I win the internets. That's how you know I've won. I used a smilie.

 

[332nd]

Bac... are you ever going to show any evidence of your claims?

 

[Accidental Martyr]

Could that be because, like Obama, you have a reason for wanting this controversy to continue? One that isn't necessarily in the best interests of the country?

What size tinfoil hat do you wear as you frolic in your fantasy world?

 

[fullflavormenthol]

Back on Track.

Well in old birther news two birther bills have failed in Tennessee. Link.

Also a man in Wichita attempts to get Obama removed from the 2012 ballot, which has failed...and is unlikely to succeed even when it can be brought up again. Link.

 

[Travis]

Allow me to summarize.

• For all previous Presidents a certified copy of the COLB would have been sufficient
• Now suddenly this document is not sufficient
• No reason has been provided why it is suddenly not sufficient beyond the fact that those interested are interested
• Such interest is further justified by the inability for new documents to appear
• Where this all would stop if this is allowed to continue is not clear
• Might DNA testing be needed?
• Stool samples?