Moderated Obama birth certificate CT / SSN CT / Birther discussion

[carlitos]

Odd. I searched for "West " on each page of this thread and find no mention of a Doctor West. Can you point out the specific post? Or are you just lying again?

The "lie" stuff is a little harsh. There are like 3 threads on this silly topic here. The good doc was identified in one of the others.

You'd be wrong. It was Dr. Rodney T. West, an obstetrician who spent virtually his entire life and career in Hawaii, and was in the Navy during World War II (he was actually at Pearl Harbor when the Japanese attacked, and used his medical skills to aid the wounded in the aftermath).

EDIT: Found a better bio of the good doctor (from the website for a book he wrote about the attacks), one that confirms he delivered babies at the Kapi`olani Maternity Hospital.

BaC, Do you live in the United States? If so, have you noticed the HIPAA forms that you receive when you receive medical care? Do you understand why those laws are relevant here?

 

[A'isha]

The "lie" stuff is a little harsh. There are like 3 threads on this silly topic here. The good doc was identified in one of the others.

To be precise, Dr. West is very likely to have been the delivering obstetrician. At the very least, he was in active practice delivering babies at the right hospital at the time of Obama's birth, and certainly knew about the birth at the time it happened.

 

[headscratcher4]

But it is in the interest of National Security to clear this up.

It has nothing to do with national security. It has no effect on national security. It isn't a national security question because there is no issue.

Saying this is exactly like saying: it is in the interest of national security to clear up the Roswell crash controversy. Its been done. The fact that you choose not to believe it, doesn't make a national security issue.

 

[BeAChooser]

There is no issue in the Armed Forces beyond an extremely small fraction of a percentage of people who are not aware of the actual regulations currently in force.

And how do you know this?

Put simply, while the President is the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces, he does not order the military to do much of anything.

Are you joking?

What IS at issue is the President's right (same as any other American) to keep his Personally Identifiable Information (or PII) private.

Yeah ... democrats showed a huge interest in that during Filegate.

Demanding more would violate his right to privacy and opens the door for even more intrusions into our personal lives, IMO.

Yeah .... democrats have shown a huge concern about our right to privacy and intrusions into our personal lives.

I'm smelling a strong whiff of hypocrisy here, Sabrina.

I would like you to answer me two questions, honestly, truthfully, and completely, BAC.

I've been completely honest in this thread. It's your side that has obfuscated and lied here.

What EXACTLY are you interested in on the "long form" birth certificate; by which I mean, what information are you looking for on it?

I've made that perfectly clear. We have multiple court suits, soldiers refusing to serve because of their doubts, more than half the people in one of the country's two largest party's saying they aren't sure he's a citizen, and numerous top leaders and media people (including some on the left) expressing their doubts. Surely, in this case, you and Obama could see the wisdom of asking the Hawaiian authorities to release his so-called "long form" birth certificate that they have stated exists and clear this up? Why are you folks so afraid of this issue? What exactly do you believe that information will then prove? Come on; be the first obamaphile to explain your fear of that supposedly innocuous document?

 

[BeAChooser]

Obama has no need to have it released.

More than half the republican party (perhaps a third of the entire country) has doubts now that he is even an US citizen. And these doubts are being voiced louder and louder. Of course he has need, if he's to govern effectively. You can't govern if people think you are illegitimate. That is the seeds of anarchy and insurrection. I'd like to avoid that. But perhaps Obama and the democrats would like to see militia groups take up this as the justification for their actions. Then the socialists would have another excuse to clamp down on the entire US citizenry. Just a thought.

 

[KoihimeNakamura]

Edited becuaes it's a little uncivil.


But I'm glad to see this thread (And the ensuing comedy) is still active.

 

[headscratcher4]

More than half the republican party ...

Yawn.

Let them vote against him in the next election.

So your logic is that crazy people ... crazy because there is literally no dispute here... would take up arms on this matter and those, convienently allow Obama and his party to impose some sort of tyranical rule to put down this rebellion?


Yep. That makes perfect sense to me.

 

[Paulhoff]

A black man was elected President of the United States.

Funny how someone that is so-called half white and black it just called black. Funny country this is.

Paul

 

[A'isha]

So your logic is that crazy people ... crazy because there is literally no dispute here... would take up arms on this matter and those, convienently allow Obama and his party to impose some sort of tyranical rule to put down this rebellion?

Yup. Apparently, in BeAChooser-land, Obama is refusing to release his "long form" birth certificate as part of an elaborate plot to toss us all in FEMA Death Camps.

 

[iknownothing]

More than half the republican party (perhaps a third of the entire country) has doubts now that he is even an US citizen.

And as an American, I am so embarrassed about that.

But perhaps Obama and the democrats would like to see militia groups take up this as the justification for their actions. Then the socialists would have another excuse to clamp down on the entire US citizenry. Just a thought.

It's all Obama's fault that you're acting this way?

 

[CptColumbo]

Defense by circular logic.

Please explain that reasoning.

LOL! Does this:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_1lGFYYNkw_o/TP56QW1f5MI/AAAAAAAACPk/pK4thBA-Cas/s1600/DrFukino.jpg

look like someone who could stand up to the wishes of the President of the US?

I don't judge a person's character on how they look. That is a tactic used by most racists.

But it is in the interest of National Security to clear this up.

No, it is not. It is only of interest to people who have a hard time accepting a black person as President.

Because as I noted earlier, doubts about the legitimacy of the President are the seeds of anarchy. They need to be addressed and the easiest way to do that is simply copy and publish this one long form document. No harm no foul. What possible damage could it do Obama or any of his kin? None, if all is as you claim. But now we have multiple court suits, soldiers refusing to serve because of their doubts, more than half the people in one of the country's two largest party's saying they aren't sure he's a citizen, and numerous top leaders and media people (including some on the left) expressing their doubts. Surely, in this case, Obama could see the wisdom of asking the Hawaiian authorities to release his so-called "long form" birth certificate that they have stated exists? Why are you folks so afraid of this issue?

People who doubt the legitimacy of the President based on racism and a misunderstanding of what qualifies one as a citizen of this country are planting the seed of anarchy and pandering to this minority only waters those seeds.

Well first of all, noone is asking that a law be overturned.

Liar. and a bad liar at that. You want the President and the Governor to ignore the law.

As I've clearly pointed out, I just want to see the letter of the law applied. The law clearly states that Obama has a direct and tangible interest and that the DoH can provide a certified copy of "ANY" document in it's permission to such a person. And Fukino said the original birth certificate would be treated no differently than any other document in DoH possession.

The President does not have a direct and tangible interest, as what is being asked for (his place of birth) is provided on the certificate issued by the state.

And second, President and Governors do have such power if they deem the need is great. Executive Directives have the force of law and that's been the position of the executive branch of the Federal Government (and courts) for years. Same goes for Governor ED's. They are highly binding.

The President nor does a Governor have the right to defy state laws. No one is above the law.

 

[Taarkin]

It's all Obama's fault that you're acting this way?

*poops in own bed* Arrgh Obama look at what you made me do!

 

[headscratcher4]

Obama makes them crazy. Seemingly literally. Fact and logic go out the door, and standards --legal, ethical, political, logical --no longer apply. This is all really the new "Obama Exception" ... i.e. There is no standard that Obama can meet, no law that Obama is not either actively violating or can't set aside because he is president, there is no evidence or proof sufficient to beat an anti-Obama accusation, there is no story or falsehood made up about Obama that he should ignore or let pass without directly answering point for point.

Its a wonderful world BAC lives in.

 

[tsig]

LOL! I just assumed you'd have read the thread before opening your mouth. Silly me.

The "shred" of evidence you claim was never posted can be found in post #2496 which came from http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0018.htm . In other words, the wording of the law itself. It's significance was clearly explained by me in posts #2500, #2507 and #2524. Did you not see those posts?

As anyone who can read English can see, the law quite clearly states that the Department of Health can issue a certified copy of "ANY" record to an applicant with a "direct and tangible interest in the record". And it lists "the registrant" as a person considered to have a "direct and tangible interest". Thus, Obama should be able to get a certified "copy" of "ANY record" in the DoH's possession. That would naturally include the so-called "long form" for Obama, that the head of the DoH has said exists because he's looked at twice (and therefore knows where it is located).

By the way, here's a statement by Fukino in 2008 that

http://hawaii.gov/health/about/pr/2008/08-93.pdf



That last part is an admission that the original birth certificate is subject to Hawaii's Revised Statutes Section 338-18 linked above. "ANY record". Case closed. You are a LIAR. I did supply "a shred of evidence". And you are the one stalling … stalling to keep some innocuous document that you insist has nothing unexpected in it out of public view. I wonder why?

You keep implying that there's something nefarious in the document, I wonder why.

 

[tsig]

Actually I think it's the slot marked "race" that has rightists in a panic.

LOL! Being called a racist by you folks doesn't bother me.

I know I'm not, nor have I made a remark to suggest I am.

So I just take it as a sign of your side's desperation.

Something analogous to Godwin's Law.

So you are a right winger.

 

[I Am The Scum]

Here's my first draft. Tell me what you think.

A young BeAChooser frantically barges into Hawaii Health Official Fukimo's office.

BeAChooser: You gotta give me Obama's birth certificate. There's not much time!
Fukimo: Sir, I can't just go handing out official records to anyone who asks for them. Besides, it's already been posted on the internet.
BeAChooser: No, that's the short form. I need the long form! I have a direct and tangible interest in the record!
Fukimo: What could possibly be so important about it?
BeAChooser: It's the president. He doesn't belong here.
Fukimo: What do you mean? He's the president! He can be here if he wants.
BeAchooser: No, you don't understand. He doesn't belong... in the year 2011.

 

[Hawk one]

And how do you know this?

Because she is an active member of the armed forces.

And if you had been -reading- the threads about this whole stupid CLOB conspiracy theory thing, you'd have known that, because she's posted in all of them.

So you walked right into that one, mate.

 

[kookbreaker]

More than half the republican party (perhaps a third of the entire country) has doubts now that he is even an US citizen.

Doesn't sound like a swing vote that needs to be appealed to then.

And these doubts are being voiced louder and louder.

Truthers also got louder and louder. It didn't mean they were growing in numbers or anything close to being right.

 

[headscratcher4]

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/04/wheres-mitt-romneys-birth-certificate/237323/

Where's Mitt Romney's birth certificate? Keep in mind, his father was "Mexican", and he belongs to a strange cult religion. Why are authorities in Michigan supressing the evidence? Shouldn't the Republican Governor of Michigan clear this up?

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Edited by Tricky: 

Edited for rule 12.