Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[capealadin]

Your statement is completely false. I had an article removed from Technorati because Peggy Ganong went ballistic posting upwards of 100 comments on the article and sending a series of emails to the editor. As it turns out, Technorati prefers to avoid controversy so they removed the article. The article was also removed from Gather. Gather has a policy that you cannot say anything negative about any other Gather member. Its a very simple policy. Peggy Ganong joined Gather, so my article was then directed at a member of Gather, so it then violated their user agreement. Peggy has gone to great lengths to silence the truth but it won't work. Everything I have written about is 100% true and fully documented. Why won't Peggy have a conversation with me? The answer is simple, she knows her actions are indefensible.

The article that you are referring to is currently available on several websites. You can go to www.injusticeinperugia.org for links to all of my articles.

You seem to have great affection for Frank. Does this mean that you agree with Frank? I don't know if you are aware but he believes that Amanda and Raffaele are innocent. Your position is very odd. You thought you saw an angle to attack FOAkers but in reality your argument is pointless. Instead of admitting that your argument is pointless, you have decided to go on a Ganong style rant.[/QUOTE















Bruce, ummm.. the ranting is coming from you. Ummm, that's why your articles came down. Umm, and you're still ranting. Time to get a grip, I think.

I like Frank, for standing up for the truth, in this instance, regarding Nara, and the false article in oggi, trumpeted as truth by Paul and Candace. I applaud Frank for that.

That's very nice of you, to put me in the same bracket as Peggy. I fear I am undeserving. That's one very smart lady, who's done an amazing job.

Do take care of yourself, Bruce. Take care of your sanity. This is not the time to crumble.....

 

[PhantomWolf]

If you must know... hands-on involvement in the making of monumental stones. Supervising the production of garden materials made of either granite, sandstone or limestone (benches, fountains, garden tiles, etc.). Selecting rough blocks from quaries. That specific enough for you?

What's valid about it? You don't think that someone with more then a little bit of knowledge about stone and it's properties can work out where it most certainly wouldn't land? Or do you believe that having experience with throwing rocks through windows is a prerequisite for making that determination?

I have had 15 years of experience with computers, working with them, building them, lugging them about, dropping bits of them, not one bit of that knowledge would allow me to predict how a computer would act and land if it was thrown through a window.

I also have a decent physics background, and my understanding of the laws of motion and collisions would help me far more in determining how a computer would act after being thrown through a window.

I fail to see anything in your claims that would make you an expert on how rocks act when they pass through a window, especially considering actual testing and at least one ballistics expert are in disagreement with you.

You claim to me appears to be a false attempt at appeal to authority since you don’t have the knowledge you claim.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

CoulsdonUK,

I am asking you to back up your version, which you have so far entirely failed to do. Your use of the phrase "took advantage of the situation" implies the opposite of a pre-planned interrogation of Amanda. There is nothing in your version that acknowledges that Dr. Giobbi said to bring them both in. I have given you two sources, and you have provided no evidence to the contrary. There is nothing in your version that acknowledges how many police were waiting for them, as kaosium has pointed out.

Halides1

I’ll address your questions as soon as you are able to provide an independent source for Dr Gobbi’s statement, which I believe Amanda contradicted by the way.

I am going to drop out for a month or so, I am starting to find these exchanges a bit like my daughters arguing about whose turn it is to load the dishwasher or who stole whose make up or favourite sweater etc etc.

 

[Mary_H]

Mary

Do you know whether wiretapping is legal or not in Italy??

Yes, wiretapping is legal in Italy. I think authorities are required to provide some sort of legal justification for doing it, but that seems to be a requirement in name only.

If you use wiretapping and Italy as search terms, you'll find a lot of articles about it.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

independent

Halides1

I’ll address your questions as soon as you are able to provide an independent source for Dr Gobbi’s statement, which I believe Amanda contradicted by the way.

I am going to drop out for a month or so, I am starting to find these exchanges a bit like my daughters arguing about whose turn it is to load the dishwasher or who stole whose make up or favourite sweater etc etc.

CoulsdonUK,

Please define what you mean by independent. Please explain what you mean when you say that Candace and Frank are not independent. I am not treating you like a child; please do not compare me with your daughter. I am treating you the same as I would any other person here. I am asking you to do your own research in the future so that you can back up your claims.

Amanda said that she was not summoned, but that does not contradict what Dr. Giobbi said. It may indicate that the message was not relayed either deliberately or by miscommunication. Diastole commented on this upthread, but I am not sure that you saw it.

EDT
I reread the highlighted portion of one of your comments, and I missed something of importance. It sounds as if by "independent" you mean "neutral," in the sense of not having taking a position on guilt or innocence. Fair enough but both Candace and Frank are reporting on testimony, meaning that it potentially can be verified with transcripts.

 

[pilot padron]

Pilot padron,

Let’s summarize. You cannot document exactly what the PR firm did nor how much it cost. Your evidence (1A) that it did something includes Barbie Nadeau’s claim that access was managed. That alone makes your claims worthy of skepticism, inasmuch as her errors have been a topic of conversation here many times. I have to wonder further whether or not her own access decreased once the family noticed that her errors always made Amanda and Raffaele look worse. Your comment (1B) is a good example of what I call the argument from intellectual intimidation: “any reasonable person…” The choice you leave your reader is either to agree with you or to be thought unreasonable. I won’t be drawn into choosing between those false alternatives. Your bringing in Charlie Wilkes is mere deflection. You have made claims that you cannot support.

OK.

In the interest of avoiding another 'endless circular accomplish nothing Nara is nuts novelette' again today.

You want to *think* the PR Firm did *nothing* because my claims (after all my direct quotes), 'are not supported' to *your* specifications.

So be it. You 'win'
End of discussion.

PS
Please ask Gogerty Marriott to remove all their *misleading* self aggrandizing and bragging on their website about how effective their "nothingness" was for Amanda Knox

 

[Mary_H]

Bruce, ummm.. the ranting is coming from you. Ummm, that's why your articles came down. Umm, and you're still ranting. Time to get a grip, I think.

I like Frank, for standing up for the truth, in this instance, regarding Nara, and the false article in oggi, trumpeted as truth by Paul and Candace. I applaud Frank for that.

That's very nice of you, to put me in the same bracket as Peggy. I fear I am undeserving. That's one very smart lady, who's done an amazing job.

Do take care of yourself, Bruce. Take care of your sanity. This is not the time to crumble.....

Bruce's article wasn't taken down because it was a rant. It was taken down because letter writers threatened legal action based on false claims of libel. The hosts who took down the article didn't have time to find out if the article contained any libelous statements; if they had, they would have known it was safe to keep the article up.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

Yes, wiretapping is legal in Italy. I think authorities are required to provide some sort of legal justification for doing it, but that seems to be a requirement in name only.

If you use wiretapping and Italy as search terms, you'll find a lot of articles about it.

Mary

Oh my goodness a straight forward answer, I am starting to feel nostalgic about the Examiner exchanges!

 

[Mary_H]

Mary

Oh my goodness a straight forward answer, I am starting to feel nostalgic about the Examiner exchanges!

Those were the days.

 

[Ampulla of Vater]

Public Relations professionals are masters of their craft which includes proffering not only absolutely perfect combination of words at the precise opportune time, but also saying absolutely nothing at other inopportune times.

The only public acknowledgement of specific endeavors that the PR peeps publicly admit to performing is taken from their webpage.
http://www.gogertymarriott.com/showcase

Again, contemplate even those few carefully crafted, minutely massaged, purposely parsed words from that site.
<snip>

Pilot,

In reading the descriptive details in the particular prose you referenced I noticed the use of past tense verbs suggesting perhaps the use of the PR firm was temporary, in the past.

“At the same time we balanced the family’s need…”
“we were helping the family…”
“we also tried to help…”

At the very least it is curious terminology in such carefully crafted, minutely massaged, and purposely parsed words.

ETA: My point being perhaps it was never a "six-figure" endeavor but rather a short-term engagement.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

not in dispute

OK.

In the interest of avoiding another 'endless circular Nara is nuts novelette' again today.

You want to *think* the PR Firm did *nothing* because my claims (after all my direct quotes), 'are not supported' to *your* specifications.

So be it. You 'win'
End of discussion.

PS
Please ask Gogerty Marriott to remove all their *misleading* self aggrandizing and bragging on their website about how effective their "nothingness" was for Amanda Knox

pilot padron,

What you did was to document that the family hired Gogerty Marriott, which was not in dispute.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

reasonable

*Some* may think semi professional bloggers like Frank and Candace (pause to genuflect when mentioning these sources on this Board) as well as less professional but no less prolific bloggers may have been somehow compensated.

To be clear and add a note of finality; I do not have enough evidence to make that claim, but it is not one I find in any way 'amusing'.

pilot padron,

Do you have any evidence of this, that a "reasonable" person would accept?

 

[Matthew Best]

You don't think that someone with more then a little bit of knowledge about stone and it's properties can work out where it most certainly wouldn't land? Or do you believe that having experience with throwing rocks through windows is a prerequisite for making that determination?

The latter, of course. You sound no more qualified than I am to determine what a lump of rock would do when thrown through a window.

 

[billyryan]

Capealadin: you like Frank for standing up for the truth,I am delighted to hear it

In the last few days Frank also says,the girl has been tortured railroaded and slandered by a pack of animals;I just hope Capealadin your admiration keeps on growing

I have read all of Frank's posts on this case,he out of necessity has always been careful on what he has put in print,has the ground shifted a bit in Perugia that Frank is now becoming more daring in what he writes.
Tourism is probably a huge part of the Perugian economy,there just has to be people in that city who are aware of the damage being done to the cities image by the framing of these two innocent students

 

[capealadin]

Bruce's article wasn't taken down because it was a rant. It was taken down because letter writers threatened legal action based on false claims of libel. The hosts who took down the article didn't have time to find out if the article contained any libelous statements; if they had, they would have known it was safe to keep the article up.

Well, now they've had time. And, it still isn't back up. Could, would it, should it..be...because..yes, it was libellous. Not just one newspaper either.

I know, I know, it's a CONSPIRACY, I tell Ya

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Nara's testimony

Danceme,

The difference between Nara and Giobbi is that there are conflicting reports with respect to Nara, but I am unaware of anyone who disputes the two accounts of Dr. Giobbi’s testimony. I trust both Frank and Oggi. I have not come to any final opinions with respect to Nara.

Maria D’Ella goes through some of her inconsistencies on pp. 132-134 of The Crime of Perugia (translated by Candace Dempsey). “Response: ‘It was 11 a.m. and I stopped off at the newsstand and there already headlines like this, that spoke of this girl.’
It is an incovertible fact that the corpse of Meredith was discovered at 1:30 p.m. on November 2. Therefore, at 11 a.m. no one knew of the death; much less, that morning was it possible for the local newspapers to speak of the homicide.” However, I think that Ms. D’Ella makes a very important point when she writes, “That is to say, there is a conceptual difference between her words and the decision to use them against Amanda and Raffaele. She heard only some noises. Even if the testimony of this woman were reliable, something that would answer open questions, it’s not sufficient to properly accuse Amanda and Raffaele.”

I may comment very sparingly for several days. If I have time, I will try to look over the rest of your comments.

 

[capealadin]

Capealadin: you like Frank for standing up for the truth,I am delighted to hear it

In the last few days Frank also says,the girl has been tortured railroaded and slandered by a pack of animals;I just hope Capealadin your admiration keeps on growing

I have read all of Frank's posts on this case,he out of necessity has always been careful on what he has put in print,has the ground shifted a bit in Perugia that Frank is now becoming more daring in what he writes.
Tourism is probably a huge part of the Perugian economy,there just has to be people in that city who are aware of the damage being done to the cities image by the framing of these two innocent students

Yes. I do believe I'm becoming a fan of Franks. As you read all his posts, you will have read, I'm sure, that he thinks Stephanoni did an excellent job, has completely debunked the theory that the bra clasp was contaminated.

Err...how to put this delicately. He has also said..and I repeat: That people spreading the lies about Nara should STFU, and only talk when they have something intelligent to say. YIKES!!!! This is from Frank.

Umm..anyone wanting to pop over there and read what Frank has to say about the Foakers..I suggest taking a valium first. It ain't pretty. No Sirreee...

 

[Chris_Halkides]

stop digging

I'm not here to do your bidding. A specific point was raised, and has been dealt with. The fact that, as usual, you choose to try and muddy the waters, and squirm off on to something different, is a game you may play on your own.

I have already told you, countless times, and this is the last time, that the discussion was a false article in Oggi, and that was repeated as being factual, even when denied by one of your own, Frank from Perugia Shock.

The testimony, will be accepted or thrown out, in the apeals process. At the time of the decision, it will be appropriate to discuss it.

You really, really need to know when to fold them, Halides, or you're just throwing your money away.

Capealadin,

You are not the only commenter here, and you do not get to set the terms of debate. The original discussion was over Alt+F4’s statement (#6524) that Candace said something about Nara, “with no evidence to back up this claim.” You did not enter the conversation until message #6588. Therefore, you have mischaracterized the actual question. You should take your own advice.

 

[Mary_H]

Well, now they've had time. And, it still isn't back up. Could, would it, should it..be...because..yes, it was libellous. Not just one newspaper either.

I know, I know, it's a CONSPIRACY, I tell Ya

I guess I should have said they didn't have the time or the interest. As Bruce has pointed out, though, the article still appears on other websites. If Technorati had left it up, they would have found no letters from attorneys forthcoming.

 

[billyryan]

Apologies for some redundancies since I was writing my answer to halides and did not see the 'piling on'

Since Marriott also admits this publicly:
We consider every project individually and assemble a team to suit the client's specific needs. We then develop and implement a plan; usually integrating a range of tactics such as earned and paid media, community outreach, ally development, and government relations among other ways of reaching important audiences.
http://www.gogertymarriott.com/whatwedo

And without the signature Googled interpretations of 'media', I am glad you find minutes of merriment from what IMHO is a pretty small stretch.

*Some* may think semi professional bloggers like Frank and Candace (pause to genuflect when mentioning these sources on this Board) as well as less professional but no less prolific bloggers may have been somehow compensated.

To be clear and add a note of finality; I do not have enough evidence to make that claim, but it is not one I find in any way 'amusing'.

Furthermore, it is certainly more easily defended than supporting other people who say that Nara is nuts and deaf.
That is indeed laughable

I have been posting on Amanda's and Raffaele's innocence since December 2009,I have not got a red cent for my efforts,any advice PP on where I should apply for payment,how much I should look for what I should expect to get,my share of the million dollar pr fund

I suppose I should not hold my breath with your faith in the mountain of evidence against Amanda and Raffaele,which has turned out to be little more than the figment of a mad mans imagination