Merged School Secretary Persecuted For Making Porn

[GzuzKryzt]

"Ma'am, I appreciate your concerns. Here at School X we strive in every way to further the best interests of our students and, of course, the school. We want the very best for your child, as well as for our adult employees, who are very much a part of the vibrant school community.

But she did nothing illegal, and we don't believe it's in anyone's best interests for her to be sacked - least of all hers. We are not a church school, and while we might hope to inculcate good moral values we do not have a puritanical agenda.

Among the values we would like our students to learn and live by is 'live and let live'. We do not encourage the imposition of elective, judgemental standards on anyone, our students or our employeers. We certainly don't wish to be seen to reward the student whose own lapse of judgement became a tool with which he could exert power over our staff. We will not give him satisfaction in that regard, whatever his motivation.

Again, please understand that I do appreciate your concerns. It is natural and proper to want what you believe is right for your child. But we have very many parents here, and very many ideas of what is right, some of which inevitably conflict.

In summary, then: get over it, you puritanical prude, and stop trying to use your children as a tool for your own petty power games. You are free to remove him or her from the school. Now get out of my office before I puke."

Jiggeryqua, I do not want to continue this discussion with you at this point.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

Good point. You are correct.

So perhaps I should re-phase: If a person chooses to enter the adult video profession, does that person lose their rights to work at places that children gather to learn?

Bare in mind I'm talking rights, not contracts that are in place.

Is that better?

( Nice pun ..)

How about this .

Should a person applying for work at a place that children gather to learn, include in their resume that they do porn videos on the side ? You know, under " other interests and hobbies " ..

 

[Rasmus]

Good point. You are correct.

So perhaps I should re-phase: If a person chooses to enter the adult video profession, does that person lose their rights to work at places that children gather to learn?

Bare in mind I'm talking rights, not contracts that are in place.

Is that better?

Slightly. You are still making the same mistake of calling it a "right". But I do agree with what you mean in both cases. Maybe "eligibility" or "qualification" might be better terms?

Are (ex-) porn actors and actresses unfit or unsuitable to work in the general field of child-education?

Not only do I not think so, I dread to think where it would leave if we applied the given reasons fairly.

 

[BenBurch]

"Ma'am, I appreciate your concerns. Here at School X we strive in every way to further the best interests of our students and, of course, the school. We want the very best for your child, as well as for our adult employees, who are very much a part of the vibrant school community.

But she did nothing illegal, and we don't believe it's in anyone's best interests for her to be sacked - least of all hers. We are not a church school, and while we might hope to inculcate good moral values we do not have a puritanical agenda.

Among the values we would like our students to learn and live by is 'live and let live'. We do not encourage the imposition of elective, judgemental standards on anyone, our students or our employeers. We certainly don't wish to be seen to reward the student whose own lapse of judgement became a tool with which he could exert power over our staff. We will not give him satisfaction in that regard, whatever his motivation.

Again, please understand that I do appreciate your concerns. It is natural and proper to want what you believe is right for your child. But we have very many parents here, and very many ideas of what is right, some of which inevitably conflict.

In summary, then: get over it, you puritanical prude, and stop trying to use your children as a tool for your own petty power games. You are free to remove him or her from the school. Now get out of my office before I puke."

Nominated.

 

[GzuzKryzt]

I can't, and I shouldn't have to.

You did not specify your concerns in any meaningful way. (I'd expect parents to do just that, mind you.)
...

My concerns as a parent, in no particular order:

1. Is this case just a tip-of-the-iceberg sort of thing, with the school board always having taken the stance of "If it is not illegal we permit it."?

2. How does the school board address the unavoidable chatter among a student body of 1,400* and the probable chinese whispers effect? (Hence my earlier suggestion of a roundtable discussion with all parties involved.)

3. Is the school board going to explain their decision to the students and are there different approaches for different ages? Which ones exactly?
3a. What exactly are they going to say to my kid's (14) class?

*http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2011/03/24/17738671.html



I am aware that concern #1 is rather emotional and very close to dirty pool. I do not expect or require an answer to it, since we have too little facts about the school, its board and the past.
Because of similar experiences in my school I would be worried, though, and therefore I noted it here.

 

[Joey McGee]

Condoms? The actor in the film I saw used one, so we can give her points for being a good influence in that regard I suppose.

<snip>In summary, then: get over it, you puritanical prude, and stop trying to use your children as a tool for your own petty power games. You are free to remove him or her from the school. Now get out of my office before I puke."

Huhlarious! (hand-clappling smiley)

 

[Joey McGee]

My concerns as a parent, in no particular order:

1. Is this case just a tip-of-the-iceberg sort of thing, with the school board always having taken the stance of "If it is not illegal we permit it."?

2. How does the school board address the unavoidable chatter among a student body of 1,400* and the probable chinese whispers effect? (Hence my earlier suggestion of a roundtable discussion with all parties involved.)

3. Is the school board going to explain their decision to the students and are there different approaches for different ages? Which ones exactly?
3a. What exactly are they going to say to my kid's (14) class?

*http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2011/03/24/17738671.html

'scuse me for butting in here...

1. Slippery slope fallacy. Easy remedy, simply outline which legal, off-hours behaviors are grounds for removal and sign that into a contract. Maybe they don't do this because they are afraid they'll get sued over specific issues and prefer to defer to "Mission and values" Uhm, sorry guys this is 2011 you have to do the due diligence or you will eventually get slammed.
2. Educate the kids how to be mature and noble about these things in life as most of us eventually learn to be, good opportunity to do so while they are still in school?
3. They don't owe them an explanation because it's none of their business. Who made it a nationwide issue? The parents. That's up to the parents, really.

 

[GzuzKryzt]

...
2. Educate the kids how to be mature and noble about these things in life as most of us eventually learn to be, good opportunity to do so while they are still in school?

Educate how? Due diligence, please.

3. They don't owe them an explanation because it's none of their business. Who made it a nationwide issue? The parents. That's up to the parents, really.

Where in my concern #3 did I say "nationwide"? Of course the school board doesn't owe an explanation, but it surely seems like an opportunity to educate their students.

Which they would do how, please?

 

[Taarkin]

1. Is this case just a tip-of-the-iceberg sort of thing, with the school board always having taken the stance of "If it is not illegal we permit it."?

Is "If it's legal to fire her than we should" a tip-of-the-iceberg sort of thing?

3. Is the school board going to explain their decision to the students and are there different approaches for different ages? Which ones exactly?
3a. What exactly are they going to say to my kid's (14) class?

Do school boards normally host town hall roundtable discussions for every single decision they make?

 

[Toke]

The school board missed a great opportunity to stand tall and stick it to the prudes.

 

[Joey McGee]

Educate how? Due diligence, please.

There's actually no reason for the school to address the kids on this issue. It has nothing to do with them, and what they think about it is the responsibility of their parents. They could set a good example by treating it as a private and unrelated matter and not talking about it to them, not treating it like it's a big deal. That's what I mean.

Where in my concern #3 did I say "nationwide"? Of course the school board doesn't owe an explanation, but it surely seems like an opportunity to educate their students.

Which they would do how, please?

You didn't and they shouldn't be addressing them, it has nothing to do with their schoolwork or responsibilities to the school. Taking a controversy and using it to educate children about morality is the parents job, at least in 2011, because this is not a legal issue.

 

[JFrankA]

My concerns as a parent, in no particular order:

1. Is this case just a tip-of-the-iceberg sort of thing, with the school board always having taken the stance of "If it is not illegal we permit it."?

You're right. This is an emotional issue. The basic answer is this: if someone did nothing wrong in the eyes of the law. She didn't show off her second job, she refused to indulge in an autograph with the teenager who confronted her, asked for his trust and he went ahead and betrayed it. All evidence was that she was trying to keep her two professions separate.

Tell me what she did wrong to warrant firing.

2. How does the school board address the unavoidable chatter among a student body of 1,400* and the probable chinese whispers effect? (Hence my earlier suggestion of a roundtable discussion with all parties involved.)

People are going to gossip no matter what. The more attention that this is paid, the bigger the deal this will be. The matter should be dealt with thusly: she wasn't sharing her second job with anyone, therefore, it's none of our business, so it should be none of YOUR business.

Will students still gossip? Of course they will because adult would too. There's no way to stop it. And, in fact, even if she wasn't in a porn star, and it was just a rumor started by a student to get back at her or something, there still would be whispering.

The proper thing to do is keep it her business and not anyone else's. The school board made it everyone's business.

3. Is the school board going to explain their decision to the students and are there different approaches for different ages? Which ones exactly?

Read above. For all ages, young and old, it's none of their business. It should be treated as such.

3a. What exactly are they going to say to my kid's (14) class?

"Some rumors are true, some are not, but all rumors are none of your business".

I am aware that concern #1 is rather emotional and very close to dirty pool. I do not expect or require an answer to it, since we have too little facts about the school, its board and the past.
Because of similar experiences in my school I would be worried, though, and therefore I noted it here.

Why would you be worried? What possible reason can this harm your son or the students? So they giggle, they talk? They're going to do that anyway to anyone whether some gossip is true or not.

What possible harm is going to happen to your 14 year old child?

 

[BenBurch]

14 year old boys should all get porn for free anyway. Takes the pressure off the 14 year old girls...

 

[jiggeryqua]

Educate how? [...]it surely seems like an opportunity to educate their students. Which they would do how, please?

"Students and staff of School X, I have asked you to gather here so that I may address you all at once and put an end to the unpleasant whispering and sniggering in the school. You may have heard rumours regarding our esteemed school secretary, whose work has been so valuable to the smooth running of the school. If you have not heard them yet, you surely will, and I can tell you today that the rumours are true: our school secretary makes adult films in her spare time. This is a legal activity, for adults, that hurts nobody. It would not be legal or advisable for any of our students to be engaged in that industry, but any one of you (even the girls!) may choose to seek employment in the sphere of adult entertainment when you attain the status of 'adult'. I understand it can be quite lucrative.

In my own time I enjoy brewing my own ales, for home consumption. Again, this is a legal activity that adults are free to engage in. I shall not be resigning, nor shall I be sacking the school secretary.

I cannot stop you talking about adult entertainment or, indeed, sex, which students have always done and no doubt will always do. I can insist that you abide by existing school rules which prohibit unseemly or unsought for comments directed at staff members, whether spoken, printed or formed by urinating in the snow.

Oh, one other thing. Student P, whose poor judgement created an unfortunate situation, has been removed from the school by his parents, who thought I'd cave in to their emotional blackmail. Now get back to your classes before I puke."

 

[23_Tauri]

Jiggeryqua, I do not want to continue this discussion with you at this point.

Is that your way of admitting graciously that you have no counter argument to jiggeryqua detailed answer to your question?

 

[23_Tauri]

It seems to me you are avoiding to present a simple argument for your side. I suggested the above scenarios as a helpful tool to bed your arguments in. You do not need to adhere to any of the presented settings.

But allow me, in the spirit of simplifying things for you, another scenario:

I am a concerned parent of one pupil. Concerned as in: I see the school board's point in letting her keep the job, but I am worrying if it is in the best interest of the school and my kid.

Could you please present at least one argument to alleviate my concerns?

At risk of sounding sycophantic, jiggeryqua answered for me. I can't put it better than that. Even before he posted #275, see my post #270.

Sacking someone for doing something perfectly legal outside of their work time would send out a very wrong message to the child. No law has been broken, no moral collapse has ensued.

The argument is

 

[GzuzKryzt]

Is that your way of admitting graciously that you have no counter argument to jiggeryqua detailed answer to your question?

At risk of sounding sycophantic, jiggeryqua answered for me. I can't put it better than that. Even before he posted #275, see my post #270.

Sacking someone for doing something perfectly legal outside of their work time would send out a very wrong message to the child. No law has been broken, no moral collapse has ensued.

The argument is

Point taken.

 

[23_Tauri]

Thank Aten she didn't spark up a cigarette at the end. The moral guardians of puritan decency would have gone into a tailspin.

 

[Toke]

The quality of the arguments for firing her convinces me that the outrage is solely the old scarlet letter/harlot/dishonest trade meme still existing in our society, consciously or subconsciously.

The best way to get rid of it would be to NOT give in to it, like this school board have done.

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

In movies, murders are faked, violence is faked, crimes are faked. In porn, sex is real. Didn't you know that? Also, Santa Claus doesn't exist.

Actually, I'd disagree with that >> .

Anyway, I think too many here are getting caught up in the RIGHTS language. It just doesn't seem sensible that this action would be taken and it shows society's bias against sex workers (as long as they are not purchasing their work at the moment).