Merged School Secretary Persecuted For Making Porn

[Sledge]

Her activity wasn't exactly private ...

Besides, this whole thing could turn into a great career move. She's getting much more exposure than she ever would have otherwise...

She looked pretty exposed already in the pictures I've seen of her.

 

[bigred]

Well, I hope she wins. This is a kind of bigotry every bit as loathsome as homophobia.

Oh cmon. Comparing homophobia to this is ridiculous.

I hope a day will come when there's no stigma in this, but obviously we're a long way off yet.

Yeah right. I hope the day will return when we are indeed are long way off from that but porn is becoming more and more of a "so what?" in our society every day. I hope for a day we stop this continuing trend of lowering standards more and more - but I'm not exactly holding my breath. So enjoy. I'll be over here vomiting.

Aside from the red herring of role models..

Hardly a red herring, although it being a secretery isn't the same as if it was say a teacher.

I don't think the employer has the right to regulate her private activites.

Legally, an employer has every right to fire someone for any reason they want other than age, gender, or ethnic background (in the US at least).

Morally, that's obviously totally subjective.

 

[Squid]

Offhand, can you tell me where it says the only rights that exist are ones that appear in the Constitution? First, this secretary was in Canada. Second, we have the right to breathe, and that's not listed. A prohibition against murder is also not listed - does that mean we can murder?

Since she's Canadian, American law doesn't apply. As for the term "rights"... tmu, your rights as an American citizen are defined in the Bill of Rights. If it is not mentioned there, tmu, it isn't a right. Only things mentioned in the BoR are "rights" by the legal definitions of the USA Code of Laws. For example, many people think of the "right" to drive. It isn't a "right" by legal definitions... it is a privilege that can be taken away.

So, no, you don't have the right to not see people masturbating in a public park, but the general public doesn't want to see it. That's why there are laws against committing indecent acts in public. Or murder. Or thousands of other things... but those are laws, not rights.

With her being Canadian, her mileage may vary. (I know even less of Canadian law than I do American law.)

Legally, an employer has every right to fire someone for any reason they want other than age, gender, or ethnic background (in the US at least).

Morally, that's obviously totally subjective.

Depends on where you live in the US. Some states have different laws regarding who, and how, people can be fired. There is such a thing as "wrongful termination."

 

[Joey McGee]

Oh cmon. Comparing homophobia to this is ridiculous.

Punishing an employee for a legal activity you don't agree (as a bigot) with without a legal basis? Exactly the same.

 

[Squid]

As another note... a friend of mine was fired from their job because they are a transgendered woman and their boss "Didn't want to think about what was in her pants." Now, she wasn't working with children on a regular basis, but if she was, would it be alright to fire her? If so, why? She's not a porn actress... far from it. Are all forms of human sexuality or sexual expression taboo, even when they are not part of your job? If only some of them are, who decides which ones?

So, imagine... the future. Every single woman in "Girls Gone Wild" now can't work with children, can't be in a job where there are 'moral' considerations, for the rest of their lives, by these standards... because someone might see them and then might see the "GGW" video of them and then they might think badly of someone the woman currently works with who wasn't involved in the incident, no matter how far in the past it occurred.

 

[Rufo]

Hardly a red herring, although it being a secretery isn't the same as if it was say a teacher.

So, now that you know she was a secretary, do you still think firing her was justified? Should every person working at a school, including secretaries, serve as role models for the children, including outside of school hours?

 

[Arcade22]

Personally i don't care if a 14 year old watches porn or not.

Of course you should care! It's signs of a healthy teenager and every parent should be interested in that. Having a talk about that fact the sex in porno movies isn't realistic, sexually transmitted diseases, unwanted pregnancies, condom usage and etc is of course important sexual education that parents need to talk to kids about.

However, going by the rules, a 14 year old has no business being on an adult-only site to begin with.

Rules? I know plenty of websites that have no "age-rule" or verification if that's what you're talking about.

Since he had access, he obviously must have made false statements there, maybe even fraudulently used his parents credentials or whatever.

Usually that amounts to nothing more than clicking the "Yes I'm 18 button" rather than the "I'm under 18 button". I dunno what the teenager is going to click, he's probably going to be honest and, rather than masturbating, he's going to flog himself because he had sexual emotions before 18 when it apparently becomes okay to jack off to porn.

Parents are supposed to watch over their children. If a child is able to access things he should not access, then the parents neglected things. In other words, they did not care what the child could or could not access.

And how do you know that? For all we know they had talked about this.

There are laws that deny children the access to pornography for a reason. Someone broke that law, obviously, otherwise the child could not have seen it.

This isn't a child. This isn't a nine year old, a six year old or a four year old. This is a adolescent teenager who, just like you and me, has sexual thoughts and desires. Anyone thinks it's reasonable to keep pornography from a teenager is an idiot.

It's simply a matter of obeying the rules, wether they make sense or not. But the rules are there, so people have to work with them.

Or you know, one doesn't support the rules because one isn't an idiot who supports idiotic rules.

 

[Ron_Tomkins]

Oh, is porn triggering some controversy amongst bigoted people once again? Well... I sure as hell didn't expect that to happen!

 

[23_Tauri]

Aside from the red herring of role models..

Hardly a red herring, although it being a secretery isn't the same as if it was say a teacher.

Can someone explain to me why being a porn star isn't an acceptable role model for teenage* children?

*I say teenage, because it was a teenager who saw her picture and teenagers understand what sex is. As for the little 'uns, well they're not going to understand anyway.

 

[KoihimeNakamura]

There's tons of free porn on the internet. If your problem is how the secretary was discovered, I think you're missing the point. I mean, it's like saying if you're speeding and you come across someone fleeing a murder, you shouldn't be allowed to report it, because had you been driving the speed limit you might not have seen anything.

I don't think the problem is what she did, so much as that she left a visual record that children could see. If she had been a stripper in a club, no child would have seen her, so no problem. If she had a gang bang with 14 guys in the privacy of her own home, no child would have seen her (assuming she got a babysitter), so no problem.

A lot of you are saying "what she does in her private life is nobody's business." Guess what? The porn video she made is not private. It's anyone's business.

Wrong. Off the clock, it's her own business.

Oh cmon. Comparing homophobia to this is ridiculous.

Yeah right. I hope the day will return when we are indeed are long way off from that but porn is becoming more and more of a "so what?" in our society every day. I hope for a day we stop this continuing trend of lowering standards more and more - but I'm not exactly holding my breath. So enjoy. I'll be over here vomiting.

Because challenging cultural mores is verboten, right? The good old traditions are always right?


Hardly a red herring, although it being a secretery isn't the same as if it was say a teacher.

As another note... a friend of mine was fired from their job because they are a transgendered woman and their boss "Didn't want to think about what was in her pants." Now, she wasn't working with children on a regular basis, but if she was, would it be alright to fire her? If so, why? She's not a porn actress... far from it. Are all forms of human sexuality or sexual expression taboo, even when they are not part of your job? If only some of them are, who decides which ones?

Yeah, a friend of mine brings that up pretty often. She's transgendered and it's not a protected class where she lives.

So, imagine... the future. Every single woman in "Girls Gone Wild" now can't work with children, can't be in a job where there are 'moral' considerations, for the rest of their lives, by these standards... because someone might see them and then might see the "GGW" video of them and then they might think badly of someone the woman currently works with who wasn't involved in the incident, no matter how far in the past it occurred.

Clearly. Shun the impure. SHUN.

Can someone explain to me why being a porn star isn't an acceptable role model for teenage* children?

*I say teenage, because it was a teenager who saw her picture and teenagers understand what sex is. As for the little 'uns, well they're not going to understand anyway.

Because we in America (and maybe Canada) retain puritan attitudes towards sex but not violence.

 

[Arcade22]

Can someone explain to me why being a porn star isn't an acceptable role model for teenage* children?

*I say teenage, because it was a teenager who saw her picture and teenagers understand what sex is. As for the little 'uns, well they're not going to understand anyway.

Don't think about it so much, in fact it's best if you don't think at all. Just keep repeating the same mantra over and over, leaving no time to reflect if what you're saying actually makes any sense.

 

[jiggeryqua]

Don't think about it so much, in fact it's best if you don't think at all. Just keep repeating the same mantra over and over, leaving no time to reflect if what you're saying actually makes any sense.

Did you know you just said that out loud?

Let me try: Can you explain to me why being a porn star isn't an acceptable role model for teenage *people?

*I say people, because they are. As is she.

 

[JFrankA]

I feel that the term "role model" is bullpucky. Especially in a high school. Indeed, many students just don't like their teachers and, in fact, I dare any one of us, without looking it up on the internet, to remember the name of the secretary of the school.

To me, the term "role model" is just one person's way of imposing their own morals on someone else.

Again, I ask, what is wrong with sex and what is wrong with porn? I'll ask one point further: what is wrong for being paid to be filmed for having sex?

One more thing: this secretary did NOT have sex with a student, nor did she purposely showed her films to anyone.

 

[Arcade22]

Did you know you just said that out loud?

Let me try: Can you explain to me why being a porn star isn't an acceptable role model for teenage *people?

*I say people, because they are. As is she.

Excuse me? I don't see any reason why she would be a bad role model for anyone. The worst thing she apparently did was having "unsafe sex" in one of her movies. Considering the qualities that other much more popular role models have that's a relatively trivial detail.

I thought it was obvious that i was commenting on the mentality where some people think she would be a bad role model for the sole reason of having been an porn actor. My bad.

 

[Darat]

Some folk believe (as I do) that in the real world society to generalise is schizophrenic regarding porn. It is obvioulsy incredibly popular but we have to hide that fact. So in the real world I can see why the school didn't want the associated hypocritical moral outrage but in the ideal world this should have been a "so what?"

In the real world it is in the school's best interests to sack her, rather than trying to defend itself from the hypocritical moral outrage, and by best interests all I mean is in terms of publicity and the resources it would need to deal with it. Schools after all are not in the business of changing society's attitude towards pornography.

I hope is that these types of cases expose the underlying hypocrisy and by doing that it does help to change society's attitude.

 

[JFrankA]

Some folk believe (as I do) that in the real world society to generalise is schizophrenic regarding porn. It is obvioulsy incredibly popular but we have to hide that fact. So in the real world I can see why the school didn't want the associated hypocritical moral outrage but in the ideal world this should have been a "so what?"

In the real world it is in the school's best interests to sack her, rather than trying to defend itself from the hypocritical moral outrage, and by best interests all I mean is in terms of publicity and the resources it would need to deal with it. Schools after all are not in the business of changing society's attitude towards pornography.

I hope is that these types of cases expose the underlying hypocrisy and by doing that it does help to change society's attitude.

Meaning no offense to you, because I understand what you are saying, but if that is the attitude of the school, then it's a cop-out. It's not a question of changing people's minds, it's a question of doing the right thing.

 

[23_Tauri]

Because we in America (and maybe Canada) retain puritan attitudes towards sex but not violence.

Sadly, in the UK too. Despite the UK being a more secular nation, I wager that if this situation happened in the UK the same outrage from the moral guardians would ensue, along with a public (metaphorical) flogging and loss of job and any hope of re-employment.

 

[23_Tauri]

Excuse me? I don't see any reason why she would be a bad role model for anyone. The worst thing she apparently did was having "unsafe sex" in one of her movies. Considering the qualities that other much more popular role models have that's a relatively trivial detail.

I thought it was obvious that i was commenting on the mentality where some people think she would be a bad role model for the sole reason of having been an porn actor. My bad.

Do you mean me, Arcade22? If so, please go back and re-read my posts. My opinion on this matter should be quite plain.

 

[GzuzKryzt]

Thanks to all the voters. I would not have expected this many participants. I love data.
It's still early, but there seems to be a tendency evolving, a tendency which surprises me a little, hence I ask the following to all the voters and fence-sitters who would keep the secretary employed:

As a member of the school board - the position you hopefully remembered being in as you voted - how would you rationalize your decision to

- superiors
- pupils
- parents
- sponsors
- family
- friends
- business associates, etc.?

Please remember, you are on the school board. Actions have consequences.

 

[Joey McGee]

Some folk believe (as I do) that in the real world society to generalise is schizophrenic regarding porn. It is obvioulsy incredibly popular but we have to hide that fact. So in the real world I can see why the school didn't want the associated hypocritical moral outrage but in the ideal world this should have been a "so what?"

In the real world it is in the school's best interests to sack her, rather than trying to defend itself from the hypocritical moral outrage, and by best interests all I mean is in terms of publicity and the resources it would need to deal with it. Schools after all are not in the business of changing society's attitude towards pornography.

I hope is that these types of cases expose the underlying hypocrisy and by doing that it does help to change society's attitude.

I felt the same way about "The Gaskell Affair" the ID advocate who got a settlement from Uni of KY when they wouldn't hire him over his creationism. It was a complete joke, but the school needed to move on, we shouldn't shift the weight of responsibility to the victim when it's our collective responsibility to change the laws that made that farce possible. It does serve as an example they need to be changed.