Progressive Radio Rants -- Minimum Wage

[Ausmerican]

Okay, just to clarify: is this an argument about having a minimum wage, or any argument about how much that should be?

How much. There is one here already.

 

[Neally]

no, please explain it to me: the bit about making it $100. Which idiot suggested that?

It's the logical extension to the advocates of a "living wage". The point being to show if some is good, more must be better and where does that lead us to.

Because $100 right now is a great deal more than a day's decent provisions, let alone an hour's.

But then we can just work for an hour, then make music, art, and play video games for the rest of the day. Alternatively, it's way less than a days decent provisions of fine dining, a spacious home with a view, and enjoyable recreation. Why are you against the average man/woman/child enjoying life?

 

[WildCat]

I do remodeling/rehab/construction/repair... which one of the "raise the wage" people will hire me for $100/hr? Don't you want me to enjoy life?

Of course, the "raise the minimum wage" people are often the same ones who want to increase immigration of low-skilled workers and support illegal immigration, for the sole purpose of driving wages downward. "Companies want cheap labor" they tell us... then moan about how low the wages are. Then complain that if immigration was reduced lettuce would be $5 a head. The disconnect is bewildering.

 

[bikerdruid]

It's the logical extension to the advocates of a "living wage". The point being to show if some is good, more must be better and where does that lead us to.

But then we can just work for an hour, then make music, art, and play video games for the rest of the day. Alternatively, it's way less than a days decent provisions of fine dining, a spacious home with a view, and enjoyable recreation. Why are you against the average man/woman/child enjoying life?

what a ridiculous argument.
100 an hour is not reasonable. 10 dollars is the least thatr is reasonable.
i really cannot understand why some of you are so opposed to this.
is it because you like hiring workers for 5 bucks an hour to do your yardwork?

 

[WildCat]

what a ridiculous argument.
100 an hour is not reasonable. 10 dollars is the least thatr is reasonable.
i really cannot understand why some of you are so opposed to this.
is it because you like hiring workers for 5 bucks an hour to do your yardwork?

But if a higher minimum wage has no effect on unemployment and can increase the standard of living why not make it $100/hr? Then everyone will be wealthy!

 

[Grizzly Adams]

what a ridiculous argument.
100 an hour is not reasonable. 10 dollars is the least thatr is reasonable.

Why? Because you say so?

And if $100 isn't reasonable but $10 is, where is the line drawn and why?

 

[varwoche]

Cutting to the chase on this one point of this discussion thread:

Cutting to the chase indeed ... while skipping past the facts.

Here's some of the legwork I'd have exected from you. (Just a starting point. By all means, feel free to round out the picture.) These are the ten states with the highest teen unemployment rate:

Sources: Teen% Unemp% Min Wage

 

[Stout]

Of course, the "raise the minimum wage" people are often the same ones who want to increase immigration of low-skilled workers and support illegal immigration, for the sole purpose of driving wages downward. "Companies want cheap labor" they tell us... then moan about how low the wages are. Then complain that if immigration was reduced lettuce would be $5 a head. The disconnect is bewildering.

No, they want the illegals unionized and paid accordingly, the $5/head lettuce thing will just sort of work itself out, somehow.

$10/hour hey ? Well we have a group of local activists demanding $17/hour.

 

[Grizzly Adams]

Cutting to the chase indeed ... while skipping past the facts.

Here's some of the legwork I'd have exected from you. (Just a starting point. By all means, feel free to round out the picture.) These are the ten states with the highest teen unemployment rate:

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/22584da1cdcf2358f.jpg[/qimg]

Sources: Teen% Unemp% Min Wage

Keep in mind some localities within states have their own minimum wages that may skew the numbers. San Francisco, for example, has the highest MW in the nation (so far as I could find) at $9.92/hr.

 

[WildCat]

Cutting to the chase indeed ... while skipping past the facts.

Here's some of the legwork I'd have exected from you. (Just a starting point. By all means, feel free to round out the picture.) These are the ten states with the highest teen unemployment rate:

Sources: Teen% Unemp% Min Wage

Except you have not controlled for cost of living, tax rates, and the myriad other things that also factor in the result.

But ceteris paribus increasing minimum wage will increase unemployment, particularly among low-skilled workers. Also you list the % of teens, but not the % of teens who are unemployed.

And the federal minimum wage is $7.25 so Georgia's is not actually $5.15, but $7.25.

 

[varwoche]

Except you have not controlled for cost of living, tax rates, and the myriad other things that also factor in the result.

Nor have you. Be my guest.

Also you list the % of teens, but not the % of teens who are unemployed.

Pardon the confusing label. Teen% is indeed the teen unemployment percent.

And the federal minimum wage is $7.25 so Georgia's is not actually $5.15, but $7.25.

I know -- that baffled me. What's the point in having a number lower than the fed minimum?

 

[WildCat]

I know -- that baffled me. What's the point in having a number lower than the fed minimum?

Probably dates from years ago, and was never changed. There's really no point in having a state minimum wage unless it's higher than the federal minimum.

 

[Snide]

Why? Because you say so?

And if $100 isn't reasonable but $10 is, where is the line drawn and why?

Not easy, is it?

Kind of like the Laffer curve, yet some people can see the logic in a Laffer curve, even though no one really knows where we are on it, yet make idiotic arguments against minimum wage hikes while ignoring that it is a curve (IOW, eventually, more is not better).

 

[WildCat]

Not easy, is it?

Kind of like the Laffer curve, yet some people can see the logic in a Laffer curve, even though no one really knows where we are on it, yet make idiotic arguments against minimum wage hikes while ignoring that it is a curve (IOW, eventually, more is not better).

Except we know exactly where the market rate for a job is - it's the point where the position gets filled by a qualified person. If it's below market wage, no one wants the job and the opening goes unfilled.

Raise the minimum wage above market wage and all you do is increase unemployment among low-skilled workers, increase inflation, or some combination of both.

 

[Bill Thompson]

Isn't it common sense that a raise in the minimum wage will lead to inflation and unemployment?

 

[KoihimeNakamura]

Except businesses will try to minimize labor costs and in this market know their employees cannot go anywhere. Please to be actually taking other factors into consideration instead of just spouting market ideology

 

[Neally]

Isn't it common sense that a raise in the minimum wage will lead to inflation and unemployment?

Still a topic of debate amongst economists. Until the 1990s, economists generally agreed that raising the minimum wage reduced employment. This consensus was weakened when some well-publicized empirical studies showed the opposite, although others confirmed the original view. A survey in 2006 of PhD members of the American Economic Association found 37.7% of respondents supported an increase in the minimum wage, 14.3% wanted it kept at the current level, 1.3% wanted it decreased, and 46.8% wanted it completely eliminated.

 

[leftysergeant]

Isn't it common sense that a raise in the minimum wage will lead to inflation and unemployment?

No.

Now where are those figures comparing our minimum wage and unemployment rate and standard of living to those of Alabama?

 

[MG1962]

Isn't it common sense that a raise in the minimum wage will lead to inflation and unemployment?

Dunno - Australia has had it since 1973, wanna compare notes?

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

Except we know exactly where the market rate for a job is - it's the point where the position gets filled by a qualified person. If it's below market wage, no one wants the job and the opening goes unfilled.

Raise the minimum wage above market wage and all you do is increase unemployment among low-skilled workers, increase inflation, or some combination of both.

That is certainly one model, but there are plenty of others with their own studies:

The minimum-wage effects literature is contaminated by publication selection bias, which we estimate to be slightly larger than the average reported minimum-wage effect. Once this publication selection is corrected, little or no evidence of a negative association between minimum wages and employment remains.

Linky.

We show that a minimum wage introduced in the presence of asymmetric information about worker productivities will lead to lower unemployment levels than predicted by the standard labour market model with heterogeneous labour and symmetric information.

Linky.

A century has passed since the first call for a British national minimum wage (NMW). The NMW was finally introduced in 1999. It has raised the real and relative pay of low wage workers, narrowed the gender pay gap and now covers around 1-worker-in-10. The consequences for employment have been extensively analysed using information on individuals, areas and firms. There is little or no evidence of any employment effects.

Linky.

I could also pull out some more claiming the exact opposite of the above. The undergraduate Econ textbooks I've found even presented a pro v. con examination of the issue. It is Economics, not settled science .