NASA Engineer (ret.) is a Twoofie?

[beachnut]

The FDR should not be used to back up RADAR because the FDR is not reliable. Period.

...

The DNA is solid! Good for you.
The Jimmy Fetzer method of proof; if he says it is so, it is so.

No study to go with the false statement, "the FDR is not reliable".
Where is your study showing the FDR is not reliable? Is your study, your source as pithy as, "Period.".

ON Phone Calls, The FBI really says they don't know which of the FOUR, as in 4, phone calls connected were from Barbara Olson.

Why do you twist information and not present all the evidence. Guess what the FBI found of the 4 calls? Find it on line, real research.
We have 102 seconds, 274 seconds, 159 seconds, and 260 seconds of connnected phone calls. Who were they from? "all family members of the Flight 77 passengers and crew were canvassed to see if they had received any phone calls from the hijacked flight, and only Renee May’s parents and Ted Olson indicated that they had received such calls". OOPS for 911 truth!
http://www.911myths.com/index.php/American_Airlines_Flight_77_Calls
Your Zero second scenario is cherry picking, leaving out the truth, misleading, using information from other 911 truth sources that is incomplete. Why not go with Fetzer, he says all the calls were fake. Go tell the families. When will you take action on your poorly defined fantasy conspiracy theories based on shoddy incomplete research?

 

[MikeW]

FBI personnel associated with the PENTTBOM also testified at the Zacarias Moussaoui Trial that the only call made by Barbara Olson on Flight 77 lasted ZERO seconds.

Ah, you've fallen for the usual truther deceptions. How unfortunate.

I don't suppose any of the people who fed you this misleading garbage pointed out the stipulation to the Moussaoui trial that specifically referred to the Olson calls, did they?

At 9:15 a.m. and at 9:26 a.m., Flight 77 passenger Barbara Olson called her husband, Ted Olson, and spoke to him for about one minute before the call was cut off. Barbara Olson reported that the flight had been hijacked by hijackers wielding knives and box cutters and that all the passengers were in the back of the plane.

At 9:20 a.m. and 9:31 a.m., Barbara Olson again called and spoke to her husband, Ted Olson. She reported that the pilot had announced that the flight had been hijacked. Ted Olson asked Barbara her location, and she replied that the plane was flying over houses. Ted Olson told his wife of the two previous hijackings and crashes.
http://cryptome.org/usa-v-zm-030706-02.htm

The Olson calls were specifically referenced and accepted by both the prosecution and the defence. There is no "change of story" here, and the government is not now saying that the calls weren't made.

ETA: too slow! Good job, beachnut.

 

[Oystein]

...
DNA: Pass
...

In Oystein's Thesaurus of the North American Language (2011 revised edition), this translates to
1. handwave
2. dodge
3. deny
4. Put hands over eyes and sing "LALALALALAAAA"

 

[Oystein]

...you refuse to address the DNA evidence,yet claim that you are "doing it for the America people"?

Certainly not doing it on behalf of the passengers on flight 77, huh Dwain?

Yeah, my thoughts exactly. I haven't followed Mr. Deets or his cohorts at the Balasmo asylum closely; do they claim to be defending the interests of the victims anywhere, by any chance?

 

[Oystein]

The FDR should not be used to back up RADAR because the FDR is not reliable. Period.

In Oystein's Thesaurus of the North American Language (2011 revised edition), this translates to

1. I have no idea why
2. Don't ask for evidence. I received a Revelation (possibly from god)
3. Any evidence that disproves my foregone conclusion is inadmissible

Ok, Mr. Deets - what is your reason for dismissing the FDR data? I'd expect you to not use your preferred conclusion as premise.

...
It's only prudent to assume the FBI may not have been trustworthy in their task of protecting the chain of custody during that flight to Dover.

The entire FBI? All 7000 agents assignet to PENTBOMB?
How large do you allow conspiracies to blow until even you would expect the first blow of a whistle?

 

[Oystein]

...
The Olson calls were specifically referenced and accepted by both the prosecution and the defence...

To be honest, since neither Moussaoui nor his defence were there on the plane with Barbara Olson, nor with Ted Olson at the Justice Department, they can't know of their own if and how Barabara called Ted. They, too, just believed the FBI statements. However, they apparently saw no reason to doubt them, and Moussaoui clearly testifies to the fact that 19 islamist hijackers had planned to crash 4 planes into high-profile buildings.

 

[BasqueArch]

The FDR should not be used to back up RADAR because the FDR is not reliable. Period.

...

FDR and RADAR for Flight 77 stops at the Pentagon, dozens of witnesses see the plane hit the building, parts from the plane litter the site, the passenger's DNA is found inside. This is "not reliable" but your double standard unquantified, unevidenced sly opinion that flight 77 did not hit the building is "reliable"?

Why don't you stop wasting our time and confess that you're a Truther, and that you won't be persuaded by the evidence that contradicts what you wish to Believe.

 

[pgimeno]

FBI personnel associated with the PENTTBOM also testified at the Zacarias Moussaoui Trial that the only call made by Barbara Olson on Flight 77 lasted ZERO seconds.

No, they didn't. They showed that the record of calls made from AA77 included one call attempt from Barbara Olson which failed probably because the card didn't work or have credit, and four connected calls to unknown numbers which were believed to be done through a collect call service, as the witnesses told it happened with the Barbara Olson calls.

But you're welcome to show me wrong: bring your evidence that the FBI testified such thing. It should be very easy for you to find the quote.

Why would you make such a blatantly false statement is beyond me.

 

[MikeW]

To be honest, since neither Moussaoui nor his defence were there on the plane with Barbara Olson, nor with Ted Olson at the Justice Department, they can't know of their own if and how Barabara called Ted.

Sure, but I wasn't trying to say otherwise, more just respond to the idea that the FBI testified Barbara Olson didn't make those calls, by pointing out that they remain such a key part of the case that they're included in the stipulation. (A stipulation that was read into the record by the main FBI case officer who testified at the trial, as per my link.)

 

[R.Mackey]

Yeah, my thoughts exactly. I haven't followed Mr. Deets or his cohorts at the Balasmo asylum closely; do they claim to be defending the interests of the victims anywhere, by any chance?

You can estimate the sincerity of such claims by the amount of actual work and positive results they've accomplished. Sure, all the Truthers claim to be harassing people, spreading lies and rumors, and making the occasional threat out of concern for "the victims," even though said victims have never supported them...

... but it's garbage. Earlier in this thread I challenged Mr. Deets to describe actual research he'd done. Turns out he hasn't even filed a single FOIA request. I suppose we should thank him for restricting his lunacy to the interior of his house, but it demonstrates quite clearly how his interest is little more than defiant, paranoid dogma.

It's an excuse. It's no different than murderous animals in Afghanistan slaughtering aid workers and claiming they only did it because some jackass in the USA burned a Koran at some point a month ago. The two things really are not connected. Truthers simply decided, some consciously and some due to mental problems, that they want to believe and act a certain way, and any old excuse will do. When you get right down to it, that's all the Truth Movement is: A complex network of excuses. No evidence, no science, no progress, no goal, just excuses.

Pretty sad.

 

[Orphia Nay]

DNA PASS? Are you serious? As pathetic as you dodging has been in this thread, and ignoring the fact that you have adopted at least three directly contradictory theories, you refuse to address the DNA evidence,yet claim that you are "doing it for the America people"?

Certainly not doing it on behalf of the passengers on flight 77, huh Dwain?

Exactly. Well said.

DNA: Truther poison & truth serum rolled into one. Shows they've got nothing, and are worth nothing.

 

[RedIbis]

You can estimate the sincerity of such claims by the amount of actual work and positive results they've accomplished.

Then by this standard Willie Rodriguez would be most sincere of all.

 

[TruthersLie]

Which willie Roedriguez? the one on 9/11 or the one on the cashing in on his heroism from 9/11? Which one? 2002? 2006? 2009?

 

[theprestige]

The entire FBI? All 7000 agents assignet to PENTBOMB?
How large do you allow conspiracies to blow until even you would expect the first blow of a whistle?

This got me thinking: There are at least as many conspiracy theories about NASA as there are about the FBI.

If Mr. Deets is assuming that the FBI is rife with conspiracy, then surely he must consider that NASA is equally rife with conspiracy. Indeed, he should either have been a willing accomplice in any number of nefarious NASA hoaxes, or an unwitting dupe of conspirators operating daily all around him, perpetrating who-knows-what malfeasance against the American people.

So which is it? Are we to believe that someone so blind that they never noticed the conspiratorial activity in their own agency has somehow discovered signs of conspiracy in another agency altogether?

Or are we to believe that someone so clever as to see the evidence of double-dealing by the FBI was so incompetent as to never notice evidence of double-dealing by his very own NASA personnel?

 

[dadeets]

Wouldn't that be the only cell phone call she made?

You are correct. The FBI was referring to cell phones.

 

[dadeets]

Ok, Mr. Deets - what is your reason for dismissing the FDR data?

The FDR data record contains a number in the A/C NUMBER field, but not in the format of a tail number. No document in the public domain that I am aware of explains how the number in the record is related to any particular tail number.

 

[dadeets]

FDR and RADAR for Flight 77 stops at the Pentagon, dozens of witnesses see the plane hit the building, parts from the plane litter the site, the passenger's DNA is found inside. This is "not reliable" but your double standard unquantified, unevidenced sly opinion that flight 77 did not hit the building is "reliable"?
lieve.

FDR connection to Flight 77? -- No positive ID provided
RADAR stops at the Pentagon -- Radar unreliable below 400 ft altitude
Witnesses (1) -- A dozen testify to a path inconsistant with the damage path
Witnesses (2) -- Dozens say they saw the plane hit the building (not proof)
Parts from plane litter the site -- Maybe, but how about the engines?
Passengers' DNA is found inside -- But chain of evidence questionable


And the big ones -- how could a novice pilot fly that precise maneuver?
Where was the Nation's air defense?

 

[The Big Dog]

And the big ones -- how could a novice pilot fly that precise maneuver?
Where was the Nation's air defense?

Seriously Dwain?

You are selling your qualification as a former employee for cheap ridiculous arguments from incredulity like that?

Worthless.

You are embarrassing yourself.

I'm still waiting for your pathetic rationalization why you agree with three theories that directly contradict one another. At this point I can should not assume anything.

 

[beachnut]

FDR connection to Flight 77? -- No positive ID provided

Wrong, positive ID. NTSB has positive proof. You are spreading nonsense. YOu have no evidene.

RADAR stops at the Pentagon -- Radar unreliable below 400 ft altitude

False, RADAR stops because if impact. Tracked by multiple independant RADAR sites. People saw 77 impact the exact same time it was on RADAR. Oops.

Witnesses (1) -- A dozen testify to a path inconsistant with the damage path

Wrong all those people testify it was the plane that hit the Pentagon an they are all pointing south. To the real flight path. Oops.

Witnesses (2) -- Dozens say they saw the plane hit the building (not proof)

Yep, it is evidence backed up with DNA, RADAR, FDR, RADAR. oops

Parts from plane litter the site -- Maybe, but how about the engines?

Engines were found, in parts. Darn, I have photos used in court. Why don't you?

Passengers' DNA is found inside -- But chain of evidence questionable

Wrong again, the DNA custody was perfect. You have failed to provide evidence. The DNA was very important to identy militry killed by terrorirts. Why do you disrepect the military, since they did oversight of the DNA and chain of custody. Why do you make up false information about the FAA, NTSB, and the military?

Got some evidnece for your made up claims? No

And the big ones -- how could a novice pilot fly that precise maneuver?
Where was the Nation's air defense?

What precise maneuver? The terrorist crashed. No precision was involved, the Pentagon was 900 feet wide, and Hani could hit a 40 foot runway but not in a stabilized landing attitude! Oops, Hani can hit 40 foot runway but not stabilized, means Hani can crash into a 900 foot wide target. You forgot to apply critical thinking, logic and sound judgment.

The instructor who flew with the terrorist pilot said it would be possible for the terrorist to crash into the Pentagon. Do you do any research at all.

AGAIN: no precise maneuvers were made on 911 by any of the terrorists pilots! Zip

NORAD does not intercept hijacked planes before 911 over the USA. You should study this one before exposing your lack of knowledge and shoddy research.


If you have evidence the DNA is not right you need to go to Congress and scream it out; CBS, NBC, ABC, ETC, and tell everyone. But the truth is you don't have anything but made up nonsense. With evidence you would have a Pulitzer, like the Post got for Watergate, a real conspiracy, not a made up one like the one you can't define.

 

[Oystein]

The FDR data record contains a number in the A/C NUMBER field, but not in the format of a tail number. No document in the public domain that I am aware of explains how the number in the record is related to any particular tail number.

So you contend that the NTSB aircrash investigation experts who did the read-out on the FDR data are idiots that can't ID an FDR? Or are they, too, in on it? Or is your argument more like "No-one has bothered to explain it to me personally, so I don't understand this yet, so I can make any old claim about the issue that I manage to pull out of my rectum"?