Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[snook1]

Well, sure it could, but first they have to complete the prison sentences for the crimes they did commit.

Delusion.

I believe this is the word that I was searching for.

In the meantine, there were reports that in Rome, the independent experts ...well, basically, the whole case is a disaster for the prosecution. Read it.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Well, sure it could, but first they have to complete the prison sentences for the crimes they did commit.

That was very good - thanks for the smile.

 

[Alt+F4]

In the meantine, there were reports that in Rome, the independent experts ...well, basically, the whole case is a disaster for the prosecution. Read it.

Read what? It was nothing but an unsourced leak.

 

[Alt+F4]

No, they won't. Knox and Sollecito will remain in prison for many years to come.

I predict she'll get a sentence reduction somewhere along the way and if Italy has their version of "time off for good behavior" I think she'll do ten all together, bringing her home around 2017, at only age 30.

 

[Antony]

I believe Meredith Kercher and her family’s suffering don’t sell newspapers nor make for interesting lead items on TV news either, so they are largely forgotten in the public minds;

... which is exactly as it should be. Everybody agrees that they have suffered an unbearable tragedy, and there is no occasion for the news to focus upon them.

I am not suggesting that this is unique just an aspect of our 24/7 global media.

There are other aspects far more unsavoury than taking an interest in the fight for 2 young people's freedom, such as going along with the prosecution's game of character assassination against Amanda particularly, which led to the initial verdict.

The only reason this case is still going on (apart from the agonising slowness of the Italian court system), is the arrogance and incompetence of the Perugia police department and prosecutor. Had they not approached this case the wrong way round: announcing their suspects before doing the investigation, and then focussing entirely on the attempt to justify their initial accusations instead of establishing the truth - then the process would now be complete, the single actual killer would be out of circulation for a decent length of time, and the Kercher family would not have suffered by having their personal tragedy become the subject of this prolonged controversy.

I have no idea what the verdict of the appeal will be; no doubt people will retain their strong beliefs of culpability or innocence regardless.

Why should you expect any different? If Hellmann, contrary to all facts and logic, upholds the original verdict, then it won't alter the facts of the case. I wouldn't expect any of the posters supporting innocence to be impressed.

Conversely, there are too many people on the guilter side who clearly base their opinion on nothing but a vindictive instinct. I have followed too many cases of wrongful conviction, where at the end there is still no acceptance among the public that a mistake has been made.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

transparency is nice

To all,

Here is a portion of Frank Sfarzo's latest piece. He wrote, "So, the works on the knife are over. Conti & Vecchiotti are ready to examine the papers now. It seems that they agree with the defense that the documentation Stefanoni provided about the tests is not enough to prove that the DNA was really found on knife and bra clasp. They have indeed just asked the remaining rough data to be provided.
We’ll see what they will receive. IF they will receive something." highlighting mine.

If Conti and Vecchiotti are entitled to the "rough data," then why not the defense? I suspect that the data to which Frank referred includes the electronic data files.

 

[RWVBWL]

Greetings everyone,
There is an interesting new posting on Perugia Shock about what was found on the knife. Frank Sfarzo is always ahead of the professional journalists who cover this case, hence that is why I, and many others, follow his site:

"According to Conti & Vecchiotti only 5 picograms of unidentified biological substance were found (for Stefanoni’s machine they were quasi 10 picograms) however the quantity was judged too little to perform a DNA test.

Yesterday Carlo Torre, made the hypothesis that the substance could be starch. So the whole group moved into the department of histology. They waited for the lab to be available and asked to prepare the reagents for the starch.

It seems that a Lugol Iodine test was performed, and the solution turned dark, which means it was positive for starch carbohydrates. If this is true, in the crevice there was what there was supposed to be for a knife that just had a kitchen use: starch. Therefore they thought the knife was used to cut bread.
But the substance, scanned at the electron-microscope, or maybe just observed with a normal microscope, wouldn't have shown presence of the other types of cells present in the bread. So, it doesn’t come from bread. The hypothesis was advanced that it could be the starch with which the lab gloves are covered.
<snip>
Anyway, starch is known for having a highly absorbent power. It would have certainly captured the components of the blood. But, none was detected. Which means, again, that the knife is not the murder weapon."

Read more:
http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2011/04/damning-substance-on-murder-weapon.html


ETA: Hi Halides1,
What do you think of the starch-like substance found?
Surely Raffaele and Amanda did not murder Meredith Kercher with that knife and then bake bread, did they?
I can just see a member of the pro-guilt community stating this...
RW

 

[Fuji]

Delusion.

I believe this is the word that I was searching for.

In the meantine, there were reports that in Rome, the independent experts ...well, basically, the whole case is a disaster for the prosecution. Read it.

I've seen these reports. The case is not by any reasonable stretch "a disaster for the prosecution". Regardless of any reductions or extensions of Knox's and Sollecito's sentences, they will ultimately be confirmed by Hellman's court.

We shall see in a few weeks' time who the "deluded" ones are...

 

[Fuji]

That was very good - thanks for the smile.

Thanks, I just work with what they give me.

 

[Fuji]

I predict she'll get a sentence reduction somewhere along the way and if Italy has their version of "time off for good behavior" I think she'll do ten all together, bringing her home around 2017, at only age 30.

I must unfortunately agree with the essence, if not the detail, of your nauseating prognosis.

 

[snook1]

I've seen these reports. The case is not by any reasonable stretch "a disaster for the prosecution". Regardless of any reductions or extensions of Knox's and Sollecito's sentences, they will ultimately be confirmed by Hellman's court.

We shall see in a few weeks' time who the "deluded" ones are...

No, they won't.

The prosecutor's case was based on two pieces of DNA evidence, two crucial witnessess and circumstansial evidence (incl Amanda's and Raffaele's weird behaviour). According to the leaks, the DNA evidence most probably will be thrown out and the witnessess are also, let's say, not that reliable (Curatolo, ring a bell? Nara, who's own niece is saying that she's mental and needs help.)

I can't see Hellmann confirming their sentences in this situation. There's a reasonable doubt, a whole lot of it.

 

[HumanityBlues]

Thanks, I just work with what they give me.

Ya that was great. Your humor is about as funny as Tim Pawlenty's.

 

[Antony]

Why do cops like framing people ?????????????????

Because it's easier, and safer, than going after genuine villains.

Look at it this way: if it's your job to solve a crime, and all you've got to go on is the untidy mess left when it's discovered, then you're facing a very difficult and time-consuming task. If you get it right, then you have the challenge of tracking down and arresting the culprit who may be a thoroughly dangerous individual practised at evading the police, and who certainly will be on his guard.

You also know that as a police officer, the public, news media, and usually the courts will accept anything you say at face value. If you announce you've arrested someone, then provided it's not someone well-known, your actions are not going to face much in the way of scrutiny - it won't make a lot of difference whether there is reason to connect them to the crime. Why would you go the long way round and risk tangling with a hardened criminal, when the world is full of people who can be made to look plausible culprits?

Almost anyone who attracts the attention of the police, for any arbitrary reason, is at risk of false accusation in these circumstances. It could members of the family, it could be someone the police don't like, or (as in the Jill Dando case) it could be the local weirdo (Curatolo had a lucky escape!)

In the Meredith Kercher case, it was the 2 people who called the police to the scene. If you follow miscarriages of justice you don't actually need to know much more than this to recognise this case for what it is.

 

[LondonJohn]

I must unfortunately agree with the essence, if not the detail, of your nauseating prognosis.

Why do you find it "unfortunate"? Would you find it "nauseating" if in fact the second court reasoned that there was insufficient evidence to convict?

What are your views on the function and role of a modern criminal justice system? Do you think people should be found guilty and imprisoned, even if the case against them cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt - regardless of whether they committed the crime or not?* Are you a fan of the Salem witch trials?

* Because, in a modern criminal justice system, it's actually immaterial whether or not people - even on a jury - think that "on balance" that the defendant is guilty, or whether they become convinced that the defendant definitely had nothing whatsoever to do with the crime. Not guilty is not guilty. The only possible exception to this is in Scotland, where a third verdict is possible: "not proven". This verdict sort of implies that the jury think the defendant possibly was involved, but that there's insufficient evidence to convict. However, this situation is not the case in the rest of the UK, nor in Italy or the US.

 

[LondonJohn]

I've seen these reports. The case is not by any reasonable stretch "a disaster for the prosecution". Regardless of any reductions or extensions of Knox's and Sollecito's sentences, they will ultimately be confirmed by Hellman's court.

We shall see in a few weeks' time who the "deluded" ones are...

The judge's name is Hellmann. Claudio Pratillo Hellmann.

And yes, we'll certainly see who the deluded / over-invested ones are

 

[Chris C]

Greetings everyone,
There is an interesting new posting on Perugia Shock about what was found on the knife. Frank Sfarzo is always ahead of the professional journalists who cover this case, hence that is why I, and many others, follow his site:



Read more:
http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2011/04/damning-substance-on-murder-weapon.html


ETA: Hi Halides1,
What do you think of the starch-like substance found?
Surely Raffaele and Amanda did not murder Meredith Kercher with that knife and then bake bread, did they?
I can just see a member of the pro-guilt community stating this...
RW

Na they will just blame it on the pizza Meredith ate.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

sentences

I must unfortunately agree with the essence, if not the detail, of your nauseating prognosis.

Fuji,

How do you feel about Rudi Guede's sentence? How do you feel about the fact that the prosecution did not appeal his sentence reduction (at the appeal level) to the supreme court?

 

[Chris_Halkides]

starch

ETA: Hi Halides1,
What do you think of the starch-like substance found?
Surely Raffaele and Amanda did not murder Meredith Kercher with that knife and then bake bread, did they?
I can just see a member of the pro-guilt community stating this...
RW

RWVBWL,

I am looking into the starch question with a colleague. I think that it is very intriguing.

 

[Kaosium]

Nice to see you again.

The administrator is and always has been a guilter over there.

I've been banned twice and signed in under a different username this time.

I must say though I genuinely am beginning to find this posting stuff increasingly boring. When I started doing it a long time ago, I wondered about their guilt but you could really slug it out with the nonsense Guilters come up with for the one or two posts you're allwed on something like PMF before they ban you.

Now it's all just trivial tripe because the truth is way too obvious.

They'll be out next month. Hellman had better destroy any hope the prosecution has of a third appeal by going after the bathmat footprint, early morning shopkeeper witness and the bleach, interrogation tapes, Raff's apartment smelling of bleach FIVE days later (when Amanda'a doesn't) Amanda smelling, Nara, hard drives, staged breakin, Filomena's testimony etc etc etc

The prosecution drivel that doesn't go anywhere should be slaughtered right her. Right now.

And most of the prosecution stars should get non-suspended jail terms.

Why do cops like framing people ?????????????????

They didn't frame them, that would have made them look less stupid and they might have gotten away with it.

The Supreme Court in Italy doesn't deal with the details of the case, it just ensures the verdict is inline with the law. Thus if the DNA 'evidence' is disqualified and the Court refuses to accept Curatolo, my guess is the already marginal case that got through Massei's court is crippled and the rest of the nonsense goes to the wayside.

Has anyone noticed no one ever mentions the name of the new prosecutor? I've seen it a few times, but cannot off the top of my head recall it. It's still Comodi or Mignini dealing with the press, it seems he wants to keep a low profile.

 

[Kaosium]

To all,

Here is a portion of Frank Sfarzo's latest piece. He wrote, "So, the works on the knife are over. Conti & Vecchiotti are ready to examine the papers now. It seems that they agree with the defense that the documentation Stefanoni provided about the tests is not enough to prove that the DNA was really found on knife and bra clasp. They have indeed just asked the remaining rough data to be provided.
We’ll see what they will receive. IF they will receive something." highlighting mine.

If Conti and Vecchiotti are entitled to the "rough data," then why not the defense? I suspect that the data to which Frank referred includes the electronic data files.

I thought of you when I read that, I wonder what all the people who insisted 'everything' had been handed over to the defense thought of that? Especially the one who just gave you a hard time about it elsewhere.

I'd like to know why it hadn't been handed over already, along with the actual knife and bra clasp, it would seem that was just as necessary and they wouldn't have to ask about it. I wonder if they'll get it, and what the excuse will be if they don't....