AE911Truth and the actual # of engineers in America...

"Common knowledge" based on what statistical survey? What country?
Based on physics and math, the things 911 truth fails to use. 911 truth uses lies, hearsay and fantasy.

89.5% of Germans question whether the US Government is telling the truth about 9/11, according to a poll by the Emnid Institute.
http://911blogger.com/news/2011-01-21/poll-germany-895-doubt-official-version-911
Wow, they followed Hitler too; looks like Germans are wrong again. I remember now my mom saying, if all the kids in school ...
It is a common sense thing, not used by 911 truth; never mind.

The Official Conspiracy Theory is faith-based lacking independently verifiable evidence.
That is false. There is no official conspiracy theory, it was 19 terrorists with the most complex plot 911 truth can't comprehend.
1. Take planes.
2. Crash planes into large office buildings.
Too complex for 911 truth to grasp. Why?



Where is your proof that this is "common knowledge"?
Among what population? Sample size? What survey? URL?
Ask an engineer; go ahead sample thousands.


Asking for a new, scientific 9/11 Investigation is no only harmless, but helpful to all American citizens, including you, to answer so many unanswered questions.
911 truth can't handle science, better keep it to hearsay, some lies, and lots of fantasy.


Then why do the truthers not believe the Official Conspiracy Theory, which is hammered in to the public through the mass media? Which is it? They think for themselves, or not? You can't have it both ways.
Because this is a lie. No story is hammered into the public.

It is up to 1472 verified Architects and Engineers.
http://AE911Truth.org
1472 people who have no clue what happen on 911 and they prove it with zero evidence to back up their non-theory, no story, no clue.

How is that http://PatriotsDoNotQuestion911.com petition coming?
It only has about 16 listed. The main quotation by Britney Spears is 8 years old and she is not an active 9/11 Denier.
The best 911 truth can do is apologize for terrorists and make up silly immature web-pages to expose ignorance, disrespect and anti-American claptrap. Real mature.



The Sherlock Holmes novel may be fiction, but the statement is true.
Fiction, and it is not true, it is a cute quote from fiction; like all of 911 truth's claims. Fiction.
When applied to the fantasy of 911 truth? Failure

It is impossible for buildings to fall through steel reinforced concrete at the same rate as through air, without something to remove the support columns simultaneously.
There was no steel reinforced concrete. Oops. What do millions of engineers say? The WTC fell at rates slower than G, this statement is not based on physics or engineering.

It is impossible for 2 ton steel beams to fly laterally over 500 feet, and get stuck in buildings like the AmEx and Winter Garden, without and explosive force.
Oops. According to physics you are wrong. But feel free to show the physics supporting your false statement. Please.

What possibilities remain?
911 truth will fail forever to produce evidence to support what are over 9 years of failed lies.
 
Hello everyone. Newbie (but chronic lurker previously) here, so be gentle ;)

I read on the first page of this thread about signing up to ae911truth as a joke (Mike Rotch is either someone having a laugh or VERY unfortunately named), I'd be tempted to add:


Ziad Jarrah,
Aeronautical Engineering,
University of Applied Science, Hamburg.


Mohamed el-Amir Awad el-Sayed Atta,
Architecture, Cairo University.
Urban Planning, Technical University of Hamburg-Harburg.


Osama Bin Laden,
Civil Engineering, Saudi Arabia.


Khalid Sheikh Mohammed,
Mechanical Engineering,
North Carolina Agricultural and Technical State University.


Hmm.. "Cave Arabs" probably smarter than many real members?



:) Anneliese
 
Hi Dash,
welcome to the forum!

a) I don't think is such a good idea to mess with the list that way, and it wouldn't even be funny.
b) If you must, you'd be smarter to list the German universities by their German names. "University of Applied Science" is "Fachhochschule" (FH), for example (we make a distinction there: FH are not univesities, they are like half a rung lower).
c) Oh yes, absolutely, those SoBs sure were clever. Some days I debated a guy from Texas who referred to them as "goat herders", so I called him a "cow herder". Ooh how infuriated he got :D
 
Last edited:
Hi Dash,
welcome to the forum!

a) I don't think is such a good idea to mess with the list that way, and it wouldn't even be funny.
b) If you must, you'd be smarter to list the German universities by their German names. "University of Applied Science" is "Fachhochschule" (FH), for example (we make a distinction there: FH are not univesities, they are like half a rung lower).
c) Oh yes, absolutely, those SoBs sure were clever. Some days I debated a guy from Texas who referred to them as "goat herders", so I called him a "cow herder". Ooh how infuriated he got :D


I agree it wouldn't be a good or funny idea to actually use those examples. I am reading a book about the hijackers "Perfect Soldiers" which really puts the point across that these people were far from stupid. They mostly came from normal middle-class to wealthy backgrounds, and had good education.
It struck me as ironic that their educational backgrounds are perfectly compatible with ae911truth.
 
Mackey's Ricochet Theory debunked by Hoffman, Ryan, Cole

Mackey answers this question mathematically (page 96 of the paper I sent you) and by explaining the physics behind the beam movement in easily understandable prose. You have not responded to Mackey, nor has anyone from the Truther Movement.

You refer to Ryan Mackey's paper, the most recent paper (2008, 3 years ago) of the supposedly "peer-reviewed" (by fellow peer Deniers) online "Journal of 9/11 Debunking."
http://www.jod911.com/drg_nist_review_2_1.pdf

The paper was refuted by Jim Hoffman, who also outlined "Mackey's Methods"
http://911research.wtc7.net/reviews/mackey
and researcher Kevin Ryan
http://www.journalof911studies.com/letters/b/MackeyLetter.pdf

Ryan Mackey provided mathematical formulas, but no empirical evidence, or references to any experiments, to show if they hold up in real life. Experiments trump theory.

Civil Engineer Jonathan Cole showed, even in his back yard, that thermite explosives could hurl steel at great speeds.
http://www.youtube.com/physicsandreason#p/u/1/5d5iIoCiI8g

So we have an experiment proving before your eyes that explosives can hurl heavy steel at great speeds.
vs. a theory that steel can fall then ricochet over 600 feet, but has never been replicated in real life.

The question is how 4 ton steel beams flew horizontally over 600 feet, (2 football fields) in an arching trajectory, to not only reach, but still have enough force to embed themselves in the walls of the American Express and Winter Garden buildings, like darts in a dart board.

Mackey's "Ricochet Theory" claims that steel beams fell down, then bounced or did a "ricochet" over 600 feet laterally. Ever drop a steel beam and see how far it "bounces"? Not far. It is steel, not rubber.

The theory assumes that there is something solid to bounce off of. But we can see the floors of the WTC are falling downwards, at nearly free fall speed. Next time you are in a descending elevator, drop a ball and see how high it bounces.

It is claimed that as steel and concrete fell down, it caused the floor below to fall in turn. That uses up energy. Mr. Mackey needs to subtract that energy from the energy required to hurl the steel sideways 600 feet. Maybe the NFL should use steel foot balls if they so easily bounce and travel 2 football fields. :)

The Richochet Theory is about as odd as dropping a fork at dinner, which hits the table leg near the floor, then bounces across the room and sticks itself in the wall. Even when throwing the fork downwards, this is unlikely to happen.

In order to embed themselves in the walls, the beams had to travel mostly laterally. By the time the beams arched and reached the AmEx and Winter Garden buildings, they were falling mostly downwards. Thus, they would hit the buildings with a glancing blow. Try hammering a nail in to a wall with a glancing blow. The nail bounces off the wall. You need to hammer the nail horizontally.

Try throwing a dart, either up in an arch, at a board. Or, try throwing a dart from 40 feet above the dart board, and see if it sticks in. It bounces off then down to the floor. But hurl it horizontally (as an explosive would) and you can get it to stick in the board.

According to Ryan's Richochet Theory, steel would have "bounced" up and out in an arch, or directly horizontally then into an arch. Near the WTC, the beam is travelling mostly horizontally, then progressively vertically. Even after 500 feet, it would have been travelling mostly downward.

Notice in the 3rd photo, the steel beam appears to have traveled upwards. Agreed, it could have hit, and sagged down. But we would expect to see more downward scraping marks on the building above the impact point, if the beam was falling mostly down at that point.

If not for hitting what appears to be the 15th Floor of the American Express Building, the steel beam looks like it would have traveled even farther from WTC 1, perhaps 700 over feet.

 
Last edited:
Notice in the 3rd photo, the steel beam appears to have traveled upwards. Agreed, it could have hit, and sagged down. But we don't see scraping marks on the building above the impact point, which we would, if the beam was falling mostly down at that point.

Really? This is what you're going with? What do you think, it slid down the building a decided to enter there?




 
Last edited:
1474 AE911Truth petition signers are verified with 1/2 hour process

having a laugh or VERY unfortunately named), I'd be tempted to add...Mohammed Atta...Osama Bin Laden
Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth has a Verification Team to prevent just that. About a year ago, I volunteered to help to get signatures at the annual Architects Convention. Once an architect and engineer signs the petition, it is not posted on the web until the Verification Team calls them personally, and requires them to fax a certificate or license to verify that they are in fact an architect or engineer.
http://ae911truth.org/en/news/41-articles/430-credibility.html

Years ago, in my Debunker years, I believed the War on Terror was as described and excited about lucrative military contracts as was every contractor in DC. I found it offensive that anyone suggested any Americans were behind 9/11. I was skeptical about AE911Truth's list myself (and a bit mischievous), went online, and submitted Frank Lloyd Wright. I didn't even get a response, and he was never posted on the AE911Truth Petition List. That was too obvious.

Then, I submitted the name of an architect who had recently passed away. This was rather morbid, and my sincere apologies to his family. Yes it was sick. But I submitted his name on the online petition, along with his web site, showing his projects, with my cell phone number, just as an experiment to see if the list was phony or legit. I like to check things out for myself.

About a week later, I got a phone call from the AE911Truth Verification Team asking to speak with the architect. I said "he is not available" and asked if I could help, as if his assistant. They said "We have to speak with him personally." I asked if there was any message or something I could send. The Verification guy said the architect needed to fax in his current architectural license and list of references. I couldn't do that, and was ever able to get him on the list.

With the initial signing, phone call verification, faxing etc. it is at least a 1/2 hour process from the signer's side, to get on the professionals' list. It is a very conscious effort. So it is not just a quick petition signing at all. It takes a commitment and investment of time an energy to get listed.

So good luck, but the Verification Team is skeptical and tough. They know one bad apple on the list will be what everyone focuses on, not the other 1473. The list of 1474 architects and engineers is verified. There are still things I'm checking out, and JREF is a good way to find alternative explanations for 9/11. But, the AE911Truth list is a major reason I turned from being a 100% Debunker towards being a 98% Truther. These guys know buildings much better than I do.

You can Audit the AE911Truth Petition List yourself by picking any at random, looking them up on the web (such as PeopleData.com), and calling or emailing them. AE911Truth is also posting video statements so people can see and hear the person behind the signature.
http://ae911truth.org/en/evidence.html#Videos_by_AE911Truth
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nvWh2aTdCs&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/user/ae911truth
 
Last edited:
You can Audit the AE911Truth Petition List yourself by picking any at random,...

Every time I do this, I crack up at their arguments from ignorance and incredulity. To wit:

Obiora Embry said:
Personal 9/11 Statement:
The morning of 11 September 2001, while watching the video footage, I thought to myself that it was just a movie as everything looked staged and pre-recorded. I felt the same way when I saw the free-fall demolition of the towers, however, it wasn't until later that day that I realized that it was not a movie (I was and am not the only one that has publicly stated that the images seen on the TV looked like a movie).

Kathleen McGrade said:
After reading everything I could find for four months on the subject to where my head was spinning, I realized that all the evidence you need to see the truth is in the 10 second video of the Bldg. 7 collapse. You don't need an engineering degree to see it.


Amir A. Rana said:
There is no way that these 3 buildings symmetrically collapsed the way that they did. Another interesting fact is how empty the 4 planes were. I have never been on a plane that is 75% empty!! So many inconsistencies!!

Joao Cardoso said:
In my opinion the twin towers and building 7 were destroyed by controlled demolition: According to all the reports the towers took about ten seconds to hit the ground. therefore the buildings collapsed at free fall (by using the law of gravity, H=1/2 at2). In controlled demolition the explosives are distributed on the building key points and detonated simultaneously.
 
Real life experiments rule over thought experiments

It's trivial to construct a thought experiment in which the support columns are removed sequentially and there is still a period of freefall descent.
Agreed, it is trivial to do a thought experiment as "proof".
But how about an empirical experiment with real objects.

AE911Truth signer and Civil Engineer Jonathan Cole did some experiments we need more of.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d5iIoCiI8g

NIST should have done such experiments.
 
AE911Truth shows videos of WTC 7 collapsing from main stream news

What video are you referring to?

AE911Truth had a booth, along with other organizations, at the annual convention for the American Institute of Architects in DC. I volunteered to help get signatures as a way of checking them out, and see if they were for real, after seeing them only on the web.

Richard Gage suggested to the volunteers that we ask architects who were looking at the booths "Did you know that 3 towers collapsed on 9/11?" Most of those that I asked said No.

Then Richard suggested we invite them to see the video screens at the AE911Truth booth. The videos showed about a dozen various views of WTC 7 collapsing, from main stream news sources. This is a representative sequence of videos they used.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0GW6QXKyp0

Many of the architects saw these videos for the first time, and signed the Petition to Congress for a new 9/11 investigation. Upon verification of credentials by the Verification Team, their name would be posted in the professionals' petition section on www.AE911Truth.org

The best part was being interviewed by (krasiva) Dina Gusovsky:blush: of Russia Today TV. She didn't broadcast my interview, but I'm in the background.
http://rt.com/usa/news/11-truth-still-in-a-cloud-of-smoke
 
Last edited:
Agreed, it is trivial to do a thought experiment as "proof".
But how about an empirical experiment with real objects.

AE911Truth signer and Civil Engineer Jonathan Cole did some experiments we need more of.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d5iIoCiI8g

NIST should have done such experiments.

Well, you see, unlike Cole, everyone at the NIST already knows that thermite gets real hot. And they also know that if you tinker around in your back yard for days making up contraptions you can make the thermite (which we already know gets hot) melt things.

I can get a candle to melt a crayon - that doesn't mean that every melted crayon in the world was melted by a candle.
 
Many of the architects saw these videos for the first time, and signed the Petition to Congress for a new 9/11 investigation. Upon verification of credientials by the Verification Team, their name would be posted on AE911Truth

And "many" equals ? One, two, five?
 
AE911Truth had a booth, along with other organizations, at the annual convention for the American Institute of Architects in DC. I volunteered to help get signatures as a way of checking them out, and see if they were for real, after seeing them only on the web.

Richard Gage suggested to the volunteers that we ask architects who were looking at the booths "Did you know that 3 towers collapsed on 9/11?" Most of those that I asked said No.

Then Richard suggested we invite them to see the video screens at the AE911Truth booth. The videos showed about a dozen various views of WTC 7 collapsing, from main stream news sources. This is a representative sequence of videos they used.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0GW6QXKyp0

Many of the architects saw these videos for the first time, and signed the Petition to Congress for a new 9/11 investigation. Upon verification of credentials by the Verification Team, their name would be posted in the professionals' petition section on www.AE911Truth.org

The best part was being interviewed by (kraseeva) Marina Portnaya of Russia Today TV. But she didn't broadcast my interview. :(

The real truth behind AE911Truth:

https://www.ae911truth.net/store/?redir=store
 
The question is how 4 ton steel beams flew horizontally over 600 feet, (2 football fields) in an arching trajectory, to not only reach, but still have enough force to embed themselves in the walls of the American Express and Winter Garden buildings, like darts in a dart board.
show me how this trajectory can be interpreted as horizontal
chandlersdots.jpg


 

Back
Top Bottom