AE911Truth and the actual # of engineers in America...

[beachnut]

... But pretending that the "truth movement" has no professional representation, ...

I was going to say this.

Truth shines through for the self debunking truth movement.

What is common knowledge to some is not to those stuck in a faith-based movement. Why faith-based, because 911 truth is based on no evidence.

Some people get upset when 911 truth is dismissed as nut case claims without enumeration of why. How do you dismiss Santa Claus? It take knowledge and maturity. How do you spoon out knowledge and maturity when the claims are nonsense, no base in reality, like the OP?

I was going to say.

True, Gage is a professional liar, his profession is fraud. 911 truth is fraud, professionally done to be nice, warm, and stupid. Equal to the feeling we may of had as a baby with a big warm poop in our diapers, content, warm, happy with our illusion of warmth, not knowing it is a pile of excrement we are tying to eliminated. 911 truth embraces ignorance, Gage is making lots of money from ignorance.

... this is common knowledge Gage is fraud except to his followers who don't care if he makes up claims based on delusions. All his claims are nonsense, no one can support them with evidence, no one can make them real.

I was going to say.

When will Gage and his merry band of super-know-it-all-people take the evidence to Congress. It would be a comedy show; would Congress chastise Gage for spreading lies and anti-government claptrap? Has anyone come up with the list of evidence to support the Gage's claims? Has anyone who signed up figured out Gage's program, his goal is to bilk money from those who refuse to think for themselves? Those who believe his hollow claims?

Is this the time to bring out math and physics to explain what Gage got wrong? Why, he offers nothing of substance. We look at Gage, like many have, and see his contradictions and delusions without having to bring out the hard stuff Gage and his members don't use in the first place.

I was going to say.

Why do 0.01 percent of engineers fall for Gage's idle-headed delusions? The good news, a rate less than mental illness. Are 0.01 percent of engineers and architects who fall for Gages nonsense a subset of the mentally ill? In my fine madness I have picked rational thinking backed with knowledge.

Why worry, Gage and his members are harmless. They are examples of failure, and fraud, no need to figure out why those who signed up for Gage's fraud failed. It would be interesting to figure how we could all avoid fraud. You sign up for Gage's group and not waste a penny past the internet connection we already have. Whereas, I have lost thousands on other "frauds", or mistakes, falling for Gage for most will be a short term brain fart, and a good less if adapted to other forms of fraud, insurance scams, investment scams, or that special land in Florida. The long term goal is to live long and prosper, not wasting too much treasure on scams, and if falling for Gage's lies is the biggest mistake people make in their lives, they may be above average.

But gee, Gage is essentially a NWO snake-oil salesman. He has that little smirk on his face because he made over 70k talking to people without having to do anything but make up nonsensical paranoid conspiracy theories.

I was going to say.

Gage has no results, because he is a fraud, there will be no results except in his bank account. Take the time to list evidence to support Gage's claims; the list will be empty. Gage, is empty rhetoric, and his group is perpetual failure. Gage will be playing this for as long as he can.

Gage's followers can't figure this out; so what?

Thousands have been fooled by Gage, they are unable to think for themselves. It is that simple. Thousands void of evidence. Thousands who signed up and forgot to do the math, forgot to do the physics, and sit back and let Gage do the thinking for them. How is that petition coming?

... when we include the number of architects and engineers worldwide, using even a conservative estimate would multiply this by about 5 times, bringing the number to 10 million. Finally, we end up with 537 architects and engineers out of 10 million who support 9/11 truth, or 1 in 18,622. Truthers, still want to brag about the number of architects and engineers who support your ideas? Is 537 still an impressive number to you?

A movie about Gage and his super club of no evidence, up against the millions. Instead of "300", it would be "1467"; tag-line "Fringe conspiracy theorists, running away from reality faster than free-fall."

Why do frauds quote fiction? [QUOTE]"Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."
— Arthur Conan Doyle, Author[/QUOTE] "Once you make up insane claims, whoever falls for them, no matter how moronic, they will give me money and sign up for woo." - Gage's version.

 

[HannibalGroup]

Is there a record or list of constructs that have specifically followed the recommendations of the NIST report following 9/11?

 

[TruthersLie]

Is there a record or list of constructs that have specifically followed the recommendations of the NIST report following 9/11?

There are several construction projects which incorporated the recommendations of the NIST report including
The Burj Khalifa
The CCTV tower (the one that caught fire in Beijing)
The Parques Central Tower (the one that caught fire in Venezuela) (IIRC) ETA: Nope... not that one. It had a massive reinforced concrete perimeter... Built in the late 70's completed in 1982. Not because of NIST recommendations. (still wondering if ERGO ever managed to figure out why it didn't collapse.) http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3737/is_200503/ai_n13602042/?tag=content;col1

We also have the Shanghai World Financial Centre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_World_Financial_Centre
And we can't forget the new 7 World Trade building.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center_7

The building is being promoted as the safest skyscraper in the U.S.[70] According to Silverstein Properties, the owner of the building, it "will incorporate a host of life-safety enhancements that will become the prototype for new high-rise construction".[71] The building has 2 ft (60 cm) thick reinforced-concrete and fireproofed elevator and stairway access shafts. The original building used only drywall to line these shafts.[72] The stairways are wider than in the original building to permit faster egress.[72]

and I'm sure there are at least a dozen others.

 

[HannibalGroup]

There are several construction projects which incorporated the recommendations of the NIST report including
The Burj Khalifa
The CCTV tower (the one that caught fire in Beijing)
The Parques Central Tower (the one that caught fire in Venezuela) (IIRC) ETA: Nope... not that one. It had a massive reinforced concrete perimeter... Built in the late 70's completed in 1982. Not because of NIST recommendations. (still wondering if ERGO ever managed to figure out why it didn't collapse.) http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3737/is_200503/ai_n13602042/?tag=content;col1

We also have the Shanghai World Financial Centre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_World_Financial_Centre
And we can't forget the new 7 World Trade building.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center_7



and I'm sure there are at least a dozen others.

Thank you TL. Is there a source I can cite, or a link to these and/or others?

 

[TruthersLie]

Thank you TL. Is there a source I can cite, or a link to these and/or others?

I don't have a definitive citation for each.

I know that the CCTV tower in beijing was listed as using the NIST recommendations, but I don't remember the citation.

the Shanghai financial trust was designed by Leslie Robertson and they changed the design after 9/11... but I don't know the citation for it... It was on some TV show.

the burj khalifa I heard about when I visited it (I live right down the road), but I do not have a citation for it.

I posted the citation for the new 7 world trade center.

 

[HannibalGroup]

I don't have a definitive citation for each.

I know that the CCTV tower in beijing was listed as using the NIST recommendations, but I don't remember the citation.

the Shanghai financial trust was designed by Leslie Robertson and they changed the design after 9/11... but I don't know the citation for it... It was on some TV show.

the burj khalifa I heard about when I visited it (I live right down the road), but I do not have a citation for it.

I posted the citation for the new 7 world trade center.

Ok cool. Thanks!

 

[Justin39640]

Ok cool. Thanks!

Here's the Les Robertson interview on the Financial Center from Nat Geo.

 

[grandmastershek]

The more you go through the list at A&E you realize how either full of **** they are or incompetent the signers are.

Edward Munyak

... in fact all the fires were very weak in historical perspective. They were oxygen starved as evidenced by the black smoke.

 

[mercian]

Is there a record or list of constructs that have specifically followed the recommendations of the NIST report following 9/11?

There was this episode of 'Megastructures - Built from Disaster' which focused on a tower in Russia. The really annoying thing is I can only find one that's been overdubbed in Russian! Even so, in all three parts you can hear people in the background referring to robust structural details added due to 9/11

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsVHxuqL3j8

 

[TruthMakesPeace]

Complete video, with sound was displayed

Did you let them know the sound was removed and part of the collpase we removed?

The video included sound, and started with WTC 7 motionless before the collapse, included the 2.4 seconds of near free fall speed, and finished only after the clouds of pulverized concrete were spreading out.

 

[Dave Rogers]

The video included sound, and started with WTC 7 motionless exhibiting movement signifying structural instability before the collapse, included the 2.4 seconds of near free fall speed acceleration, and finished only after the clouds of pulverized concrete debris, probably mainly composed of wallboard and similar brittle materials, were spreading out.

FTFY. Learn some physics.

Dave

 

[TruthMakesPeace]

Common knowledge: Poll shows 89.5% of Germans question 9/11

I was going to say this. What is common knowledge to some is not to those stuck in a faith-based movement.

"Common knowledge" based on what statistical survey? What country?

89.5% of Germans question whether the US Government is telling the truth about 9/11, according to a poll by the Emnid Institute.
http://911blogger.com/news/2011-01-21/poll-germany-895-doubt-official-version-911

Why faith-based, because 911 truth is based on no evidence.

The Official Conspiracy Theory is faith-based lacking independently verifiable evidence.

... this is common knowledge Gage...

Where is your proof that this is "common knowledge"?
Among what population? Sample size? What survey? URL?

Why worry, Gage and his members are harmless.

Asking for a new, scientific 9/11 Investigation is no only harmless, but helpful to all American citizens, including you, to answer so many unanswered questions.

Thousands...are unable to think for themselves.

Then why do the truthers not believe the Official Conspiracy Theory, which is hammered in to the public through the mass media? Which is it? They think for themselves, or not? You can't have it both ways.

How is that petition coming?

It is up to 1472 verified Architects and Engineers.
http://AE911Truth.org

How is that http://PatriotsDoNotQuestion911.com petition coming?
It only has about 16 listed. The main quotation by Britney Spears is 8 years old and she is not an active 9/11 Denier.

Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."
— Arthur Conan Doyle, Author

The Sherlock Holmes novel may be fiction, but the statement is true.

It is impossible for buildings to fall through steel reinforced concrete at the same rate as through air, without something to remove the support columns simultaneously.

It is impossible for 2 ton steel beams to fly laterally over 500 feet, and get stuck in buildings like the AmEx and Winter Garden, without and explosive force.

What possibilities remain?

 

[Dave Rogers]

It is impossible for buildings to fall through steel reinforced concrete at the same rate as through air, without something to remove the support columns simultaneously.

Patently false. It's trivial to construct a thought experiment in which the support columns are removed sequentially and there is still a period of freefall descent.

It is impossible for 2 ton steel beams to fly laterally over 500 feet, and get stuck in buildings like the AmEx and Winter Garden, without and explosive force.

Also patently false. There are many forces that can cause objects to move laterally, including off-axis impact from falling debris and simple toppling.

What possibilities remain?

The ones you're trying to gloss over because they don't fit in with your fantasy.

Dave

 

[Oystein]

"Common knowledge" based on what statistical survey? What country?

89.5% of Germans question whether the US Government is telling the truth about 9/11, according to a poll by the Emnid Institute.
http://911blogger.com/news/2011-01-21/poll-germany-895-doubt-official-version-911
...

We already had a couple of threads on that topic.
So do 89.5% of Germans think it wasn't 19 islamist terrorists that destroyed the WTC and a wing of the Pentagon with hijacked planes? No way!
The poll question is heavily loaded. Allow me to translate for you:

The attacks of 9/11/2001 changd the world - the USA marched into Afghanisrtan and Iraq, civil rights have been cut massively. Do you believe, that the US government is telling the world the entire truth?

What you left out in your rendering of the question is the word "entire" (german: "ganze"). You also left out the frame in whichg the question was posed. It is framed in the context of unpopular political decisions that followed 9/11. I think most people in Germany, and indeed the world, take it for a fact that the Bush-government lied to the world and to their own people in order to pass the Iraq war and the Patriot act. In fact, I am convinced that Bush, Powell and co. lied there, and that the US government is not telling the entire truth. Despite this, I am convinced that the "official line 9/11" is the true line. Polls are not the way to convince me otherwise. Science and facts would be. The kind of stuff you and your ilk are missing.

 

[TruthersLie]

Then why do the truthers not believe the Official Conspiracy Theory, which is hammered in to the public through the mass media? Which is it? They think for themselves, or not? You can't have it both ways.

Because in general they are underemployed, undereducated people who feel that the world is against them, that there are "elites" who rule the world and pull strings like a puppetmaster and it allows them to feel better about themselves, because it isn't their fault, but rather it is "the governments" "the corporations" or "the elites" who are in control of truthers lives. If you can blame someone else, then it makes you feel better that you never get a chance to show how intelligent, smart, sexy, ... you are.

It is up to 1472 verified Architects and Engineers.
http://AE911Truth.org

LIE by omission.

it is 1472 ARCHITECTURAL and ENGINEERING PROFESSIONALS. It is NOT 1472 architects and engineers.

Why do you try to mislead people like that?
Why when they started was it "degreed and licensed architects and engineers" then it was shifted to degreed and/OR licensed architects and engineers and finally "degreed and/or licensed architectural and engineering professionals?"

Second part with that... Goodie for you. When will one of these "degreed and/or licensed architectural and engineering professionals" manage to get a single paper through any REAL peer reviewed journal (don't try to pass off bentham...) in any language in any part of the world? It has been 9 years and 2 years since the NIST final report came out. plenty of time to tear it apart and refute it.

When can we expect to see anything?

The Sherlock Holmes novel may be fiction, but the statement is true.

Unlike the truth movement... which is just fiction.

It is impossible for buildings to fall through steel reinforced concrete at the same rate as through air, without something to remove the support columns simultaneously.

That might be true... too bad none of the buildings which collapsed on 9/11 were steel REINFORECED CONCRETE buildings. That is another lie. provide a citation or retract that lie.

It is impossible for 2 ton steel beams to fly laterally over 500 feet, and get stuck in buildings like the AmEx and Winter Garden, without and explosive force.

Thost 2 ton steel beams didnt' fly laterally. They flew in an ARC, which included going DOWNWARDS.

But it is fully possible for a 2 ton steel beam which is 1000 feet in the air to fall in an arc from where it was and for it to land at 500 feet away (especially if it is attached to other outer columns which are tipping over.)

It is also impossible for 2 ton steel beams to fly laterally over 500 feet by any SILENT explosive. The amount of explosives necessary to eject a 2 ton steel beam and make it fly 500 feet laterally would be heard in New Jersey...

What possibilities remain?

That you need to go back to school and try to pay attention in physics, chemistry, logic and research methods classes.

 

[Dave Rogers]

Which is it? They think for themselves, or not? You can't have it both ways.

They don't. They simply repeat fallacies spoon-fed to them by David Ray Griffin, Thierry Mayssan or Alex Jones, whether at first, second or third hand, and pretend their repetition involves some level of original thought. This is what makes it so easy, and so dull, to debunk 9/11 conspiracy theories; they're always the same old rubbish, recycled.

Dave

 

[TexasJack]

How is that http://PatriotsDoNotQuestion911.com petition coming?
It only has about 16 listed. The main quotation by Britney Spears is 8 years old and she is not an active 9/11 Denier.

That's like asking someone to sign a petition stating the world isn't flat. You really need to learn the concept of burden of proof.

 

[Animal]

They are free to investigate all they want....but asking others to PAY for it certainly is harmful to the 99.7% of the population that is sane.

Then why do the truthers not believe the Official Conspiracy Theory, which is hammered in to the public through the mass media? Which is it? They think for themselves, or not? You can't have it both ways.

http://www.world-mysteries.com/newgw/gw_rmd1.htm

It is up to 1472 verified Architects and Engineers.
http://AE911Truth.org

Nice try with that claim, but less than500 are licensed architect and engineers, (and few in the engineering category have any structural engineering background) That represents less that .02 of 1% of the licensed professionals in the country.

It is impossible for buildings to fall through steel reinforced concrete at the same rate as through air, without something to remove the support columns simultaneously.

Since the WTC were not steel reinforced structures, your statement is moot.

It is impossible for 2 ton steel beams to fly laterally over 500 feet, and get stuck in buildings like the AmEx and Winter Garden, without and explosive force.

Simply a lie. The potential energy of the building mass 1000 ft in the air was more than enough for steel beams / columns to be laterally displaced as they were.

 

[Frank McLaughlin]

CICorp, why do you keep repeating the nonsense about steel beams not traveling 500 feet from a collapsing building when Mackey has answered this, and I sent you his reply.

(1) Mackey answers this question mathematically (page 96 of the paper I sent you) and by explaining the physics behind the beam movement in easily understandable prose. You have not responded to Mackey, nor has anyone from the Truther Movement.

(2) No one from the Truther movement has written a paper explaining why the steel beams could not have travelled over 500 feet so you are making a claim without any substantiation.

(3) I asked you what proof you would need to accept that fact that the steel could travel 500 feet, what evidence would convince you. You refuse to respond. Would you accept a peer-rewiewed white paper written by a physicist? If not, then what? Are you arguing from a religious point of view or a scientific one? If this is a faith-based belief you have, why waste everyone's time here?

 

[R.Mackey]

Welcome to the Forums.

To be fair, a number of Truthers have "responded" to me, but those responses are rather lacking in terms of validity, scientific accuracy, merit, or (in most cases) civility.