General Israel/Palestine discussion thread

[Toontown]

Originally Posted by Skeptic [qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif[/qimg]
1). The usual gang of idiots, who used Goldstone's report to smear Israel repeatedly, will be as silent as the grave about this, and not a word, not a whisper, of apology or even basic decent admitting of a mistake will be heard from them.

just as YOU were silent in the face of vicious, hateful, bigoted, and outrageous attacks upon Goldstone, for daring to defy Israel.

People defy Israel every day and live to tell about it. Don't try to pretend it's courageous to "defy" a civilized country by lying about it like a filthy, stinking gutter rat. People get smooth away with that every day. And they know they'll get away with it, which is the only reason they have the "courage" to do it.

Think it through, Parky. Goldstone admits he reached erroneous conclusions, but blames Israel for failing to be more forthcoming with information.

Question: if Goldstone lacked sufficient information when he wrote his bogus report, then how, pray tell, did he reach the bogus conclusions?

Answer: by leaping to unjustified, erroneous, biased, garbage conclusions.

As was already repeatedly explained to you when the bogus report first came out.

 

[Beerina]

Goldstone: I screwed up, Israel did not deliberately target civilians. Ooops.


Golly. I can't believe people character assassinated this guy. How horrible of Israel!

 

[The Fool]

Goldstone: I screwed up, Israel did not deliberately target civilians. Ooops.


Golly. I can't believe people character assassinated this guy. How horrible of Israel!

well I can believ people character assasinated this guy because, like you, They believe facts don't count in a ***** throwing festival.

I quote from your link..

Writing in the Washington Post over the weekend, Goldstone said that in light of internal investigations conducted in Israel and a subsequent UN report last month, he was reconsidering his most serious accusation -- that Israel deliberately targeted civilians.

"If I had known then what I know now, the Goldstone Report would have been a different document," he said, adding Israel's investigations "indicate that civilians were not intentionally targeted as a matter of policy."

why does he know stuff now that he didn't know then beerina? Because Israel finally decided to conduct investigations and allow access to the results Beerina. Why did he not have all the informastion earlier beerina? Because Israel refused to co-operate beerina.

any chance that you would understand this beerina?

doubtfull....as your desire to slander this guy appears to trump your desire to see facts.

possibly mud chucking Israel goggle wearing rank apologists should review why they consider yourselves members of a critical thinking forum?

 

[Skeptic]

So, it turns out the "character assassinators" were correct. Goldstone's report was deliberately biased and anti-Israeli.

I expect the usual gang, who used the Goldstone report to bash Israeli incessantly, to apologize.

And pigs will fly.

 

[The Fool]

People defy Israel every day and live to tell about it. Don't try to pretend it's courageous to "defy" a civilized country by lying about it like a filthy, stinking gutter rat. People get smooth away with that every day. And they know they'll get away with it, which is the only reason they have the "courage" to do it.

Think it through, Parky. Goldstone admits he reached erroneous conclusions, but blames Israel for failing to be more forthcoming with information.

Question: if Goldstone lacked sufficient information when he wrote his bogus report, then how, pray tell, did he reach the bogus conclusions?

Answer: by leaping to unjustified, erroneous, biased, garbage conclusions.

As was already repeatedly explained to you when the bogus report first came out.

so you will require all jurists in the future to take into considerations information they will recieve in the future....


shucks you guys....this is getting laughable....

and please, can we have a little less lying? Goldstone has not admitted he reached erroneous conclusions....

would it not have been easier if Israel had not stonewalled? If Goldstone had the results of Israeli inquiries conducted in the firstplace without all the posturing and bleating he could have taken them into consideration.....but hey, taking that fact into consideration may require you to be critical of Israeli policy so thats not going to happen is it.


filthy stinking gutter rat? brave keyboard commando chucks mud Brave boy.....

 

[Skeptic]

It is quite rare for such a famous report to be so publicly retracted. It is exceedingly embarrasing for the folks who supported it to the hilt, since it fit their "Israel is evil" story. So naturally they will pass over this retraction in silence. They will never apologize.

 

[The Fool]

It is quite rare for such a famous report to be so publicly retracted. It is exceedingly embarrasing for the folks who supported it to the hilt, since it fit their "Israel is evil" story. So naturally they will pass over this retraction in silence. They will never apologize.

Resident liar chimes in as usual.The report has not been publicly retracted. He has simply pointed out the obvious that it was based on the information available to him during the time when it was Israels policy to deny him access to any information. Israel is to be congratulated on having finally outgrown the avoidance and denial on this issue that you advocate.

who are the folks that have an "Israel is evil" story. when will you ever pluck up the courage to face these imaginary oponents?

what has to be apologised for? Goldstone not taking into consideration information he recieves in the future.....good trick if he can manage it.

ok on with the cowards bash session....

 

[The Fool]

Can I just make a couple of observations.

Goldstones report says on the basis of the information before him both Israel and Hamas have a case to answer about some events....He recommends that each be required to answer the case by conducting their own investigations.

Israel did this, Hamas didn't.

Goldstone points out that the investigations that Israel conducted and he now has access to satisfy him that they don't have a case to answer about some events .....he reaches this conclusion based on the extra evidence.

exactly what do you clowns want?? what do you expect?? what planet are you living on??

ok, back to the goldstone bash conducted by people who should rather be thankfull to Goldstone who has judiciously resisted the stupid path of denial and non co-operation that you guys seem so committed to sending Israel down.

 

[The Fool]

So, it turns out the "character assassinators" were correct. Goldstone's report was deliberately biased and anti-Israeli.

I expect the usual gang, who used the Goldstone report to bash Israeli incessantly, to apologize.

And pigs will fly.

Has this become your standard post "skeptic". A factual lie "goldstones report was deliberately biased" you have chanted this a lot but never provided any support for the claim. You appear to want to avoid discussing it. Just want to chant it as often as possible.

Followed by....you guessed it...some comment about a nebulous group of people you lack the courage to name..

I also am impressed by the way you can simply ignore responses to your rants and simply repeat the same rants over and over.

 

[Skeptic]

To repeat what I said in another thread.

Fool, Thunder, bikerdruid, and a few other people (you know who you are): you attacked Israel numerous times based on the findings of the Goldstone report that he now retracted. Can we get a simple apology or withdrawal of your posts which attacked Israel for "war crimes" and the like, based on the Goldstone report, which you now know to be untrue?

Forget about whether or not it was reasonable to believe the Goldstone report in the first place (I think it was clearly biased from the start, but let's let that one slide). Let us talk about what you know now to be the case.

I am not asking you to buy Israeli bonds, merely to own up publicly to what turned out to be the facts.

 

[Skeptic]

Fool, Thunder, bikerdruid, and a few other people (you know who you are): you attacked Israel numerous times based on the findings of the Goldstone report that he now retracted. Can we get a simple apology or withdrawal of your posts which attacked Israel for "war crimes" and the like, based on the Goldstone report, which you now know to be untrue?

Forget about whether or not it was reasonable to believe the Goldstone report in the first place (I think it was clearly biased from the start, but let's let that one slide). Let us talk about what you know now to be the case.

I am not asking you to buy Israeli bonds, merely to own up publicly to what turned out to be the facts.

 

[Virus]

Goldstone wad a godsend. All the good stuff for feeding insatiable hatreds. We who support Israel knew that they don't target civilians like Hamas does. We knew Israel was morally superior to a bunch of Iranian-backed jihadists.

Guess what? We were right and the haters were wrong so nyah.

 

[lionking]

So, it turns out the "character assassinators" were correct. Goldstone's report was deliberately biased and anti-Israeli.

I expect the usual gang, who used the Goldstone report to bash Israeli incessantly, to apologize.

I'm sure Thunder will be first in the queue.

 

[bigjelmapro]

Yes. It was about fishing permits.

Then there's nothing more to add to this other than B'tselem is not a substantiated source and this is not applicable to fishing permits, Israel is not issuing fishing permits and Israel doesn't control any function of government in Gaza.

Argument by people qualified to give an opinion. I'm not quoting Joe Bloggs.

So you're stating that paper that I provided from people with phd's and active professors are not qualified, but you keep waving around travel advisories from the CIA website and Mycroft's source as qualified? If not, please clarify.

So you have an ad hoc explanation for why the US government doesn't support you.

At any point you can provide the evidence that this is the official position of the US government.

I'm not making a legal argument.

Good to know. Then stop using legal diction.

Done and dusted. But not forgotten. Your inability to admit you were wrong is well remembered.

Because there's nothing to be wrong about. Still gestures, still inconsistent, still selective (ie comparing post war or period where crossing was closed extensively).

Nobody said you agreed with it. I said I referred to the part you quoted. And I had. So I didn't cherry pick.

And you can call him a hack job. Mycroft called him an international lawyer who has argued cases in international courts.

Not calling him a hack job, quoted the rest of the cherry-picked quote you used. As in I posted the rest of it.

Anything that starts by saying Israel has had no official military business in Gaza when Israel continues with the buffer zones, over-flights, etc is clearly not going to reach an honest conclusion.

Buffer zones, airspace and internal waters in Gaza should be controlled by PA forces as per previous agreements. Since it isn't and Hamas actively uses the Gaza-Israel border (both land/sea) for incursions, there's a need for buffer zones. Otherwise the 'cold peace' that exists between North and South Korea would be the same between Israel-PA (or even Hamas beyond 'hudnas').

And the quote is 'no official Israeli military or civilian presence in the
territory since that time'. But I can see how swapping 'presence' with 'business' has helped you fabricate a reason not to read the paper.

How do you think your source uses the term "sui generis"? Hey!! Maybe they have a unique use of the term!!

So there's no application of sui generis anywhere else in the world? Do you think its a fictional term?

Other examples have been given. Including by Mycroft's source.

And I gave my examples why I disagreed with it. So again, what of it?

Yes, I guessed that you were just making things up again.

Poor response as usual.

 

[bigjelmapro]

If he'd had that cooperation from the start he wouldn't have had to make his judgement on the data he had back then. Is anyone going to apologise to Goldstone for the accusations of bias which were made against him?

Accusation of bias was made against the group of people and the subsequent report (modified from the original submitted to the UN) involved in the investigation. The people involved made pre-judgements before the investigation started. So what exactly is there to apologize for?

 

[The Fool]

]Fool, Thunder, bikerdruid, and a few other people (you know who you are): you attacked Israel numerous times based on the findings of the Goldstone report that he now retracted.

He has retracted nothing....but you just keep chanting it. The original report simply said there was a case to answer based on the evidence at hand and that is true. He says now....as he said at the time....that if he had more than zero co-operation from Israel he may have been able to draw different conclusions. Some of these actions have been shown (after Israel finally agreed to acceptable investigations) to have answered the case. This is exactly what Goldstone intended when his report called for investigations.

If you can find me "attacking Israel" on this topic then quote me. All I have ever said is that the report found there was a case to answer In the face of claims that the report declared guilt (which it couldn't and didn't). My constant efforts were to counter people like you who were committed to preventing investigations or the public disclosure of investigations.

you understand all this I am sure but are simply repeating fabrications.

I am not asking you to buy Israeli bonds, merely to own up publicly to what turned out to be the facts.

who is denying what turned out to be the facts? I put it to you that the only reason we are discussing these facts is because Goldstone recommended that Israel conduct these more open investigations. It was you that was whining about conducting them and if it was up to you they would never have happened.

Luckily Goldstone's prodding of Israel has put them on a better path despite your protests, rewriting of reality and patting yourself on the back.

 

[The Fool]

Accusation of bias was made against the group of people and the subsequent report (modified from the original submitted to the UN) involved in the investigation.

a weak case was made that largely consisted of simply endless repetition of the claim.

The people involved made pre-judgements before the investigation started. So what exactly is there to apologize for?

you have no evidence of prejudgement, never have. Time to reveal it??

once again you simply repeat the chants.

 

[The Fool]

Fool, Thunder, bikerdruid, and a few other people (you know who you are): you attacked Israel numerous times based on the findings of the Goldstone report that he now retracted. Can we get a simple apology or withdrawal of your posts which attacked Israel for "war crimes" and the like, based on the Goldstone report, which you now know to be untrue?

Forget about whether or not it was reasonable to believe the Goldstone report in the first place (I think it was clearly biased from the start, but let's let that one slide). Let us talk about what you know now to be the case.

I am not asking you to buy Israeli bonds, merely to own up publicly to what turned out to be the facts.

as you have taken to repeating your fabrications and dishonest claims in multiple threads you will forgive me for repeating some aspects of the answers here.

firstly, you are simply making stuff up again. Or possibly its just the way you remember things.

You say I have repeatedly attacked Israel based on the findings of the Goldstone report....simple lie. I have attacked Israel for refusing to co-operate with the report for initially refusing to do more open investigations....you will not find me attacking Israel for "war crimes" because the report did not find guilt...It found a case to answer.

quote me attacking Israel for committing warcrimes....your lying and fabrication is very tedious.

 

[IDB87]

why does he know stuff now that he didn't know then beerina? Because Israel finally decided to conduct investigations and allow access to the results Beerina. Why did he not have all the informastion earlier beerina? Because Israel refused to co-operate beerina.

Why why why why, The Fool, would Goldstone make accusations without any evidence?

Why didn't he have that information? Maybe because it was being collected by the IDF?

This is kind of embarrassing, TF, that you must cling to something so desperately when it actually turns out to work against you.

 

[Thunder]

So, it turns out the "character assassinators" were correct.

Really Skeptic?

These attacks upon his character, were correct?

Obviously, it wasn’t easy to destroy Richard Goldstone. But for his report to be permanently deep-sixed, the man himself had to be thor-oughly discredited, recast not just as a naïve dupe of the human rights community but as an enemy of Israel, a Nazi in Zionist clothing, a perpetrator of “blood libel,” a self-hating Jew.​

“There are three primary threats facing us today,” said Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, “the nuclear threat, the missile threat, and what I call the Goldstone threat.” President Shimon Peres called Goldstone “a small man, devoid of any sense of justice.” Others in the government and media piled on, as did the so-called leaders of the “organized” American Jewish community. Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz said Goldstone was “an evil, evil man,” “a traitor to the Jewish people,” the U.N.’s “token court Jew” and a “despicable human being.”

Danny Ayalon, Israel’s deputy foreign minister, said, “I don’t want to exaggerate but these are the same explanations we heard in Nazi Germany after World War II.” Alan Dershowitz sank to a new low. “That’s what Mengele said, too,” he told an Israeli TV program. Israeli Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman reportedly ordered Yediot’s story distributed to his diplomatic missions abroad.


One could argue that these and other attacks upon Goldstone, were clear anti-Semitism against a fellow Jew.