Channelers get younger and younger

[kyra1985]

I was stunned and horrified when I came across a youtube clip of a kid supposedly channeling the same entity that Esther Hicks "channels." I'm not sure if it's supposed to be cute, or if the parents of this kid actually believe he's channeling.

Abraham Jr

Hope it disturbs you as much as it disturbed me!

xoxo kyra

 

[Joey McGee]

If they just think it's cute, that is not less disturbing to me.

 

[kyra1985]

That was my thought. It doesn't matter which way it is, because it is sooooo wrong.

 

[Joey McGee]

It's sad for me to see because I used to follow this movement and I know people that still do. They turn brains to mush like fire to ice it's incredible, it really needs to be seen to be believed. (ma brain is all firmed up again don't worry) These people are some of the happiest and most positive people I know, but it's in a creepy way. Kind of like how human-like robots are creepy because your brain can tell, something is wrong with this person.

For certain people, there is no escape, it's just the most amazing wishful thinking memetic virus you can imagine, the reward system of the brain needs a lot of shock and reality before it will disengage from it's source of pleasure. That's why it's sad to see people indoctrinating children with it.

Perhaps you can comment on that Kyra, since you have an the most amazing blog tracking these fraudsters (that you can't share here until you get 50 posts )

 

[thebigm]

Wow - that is actually a bit unsettling.

 

[kyra1985]

It's sad for me to see because I used to follow this movement and I know people that still do. They turn brains to mush like fire to ice it's incredible, it really needs to be seen to be believed. (ma brain is all firmed up again don't worry) These people are some of the happiest and most positive people I know, but it's in a creepy way. Kind of like how human-like robots are creepy because your brain can tell, something is wrong with this person.

For certain people, there is no escape, it's just the most amazing wishful thinking memetic virus you can imagine, the reward system of the brain needs a lot of shock and reality before it will disengage from it's source of pleasure. That's why it's sad to see people indoctrinating children with it.

Lol. I'm wildly surprised that you even knew I have a blog. Yeah, I was there too (really really into Abraham). There was a time where I never questioned anything they said. I'm sure I even had big, Scientology-eyes every time I talked about them. I was fairly fantasy prone, so I was an easy, gullible convert. I think the red flag for me was that everyone involved with the teachings talk about thinking independently and guiding themselves, all the while using the rhetoric, language, and examples of Abraham. But as you said, there is something appealing about this sort of magical thinking that keeps people in it. In fact, the comments I get on the blog just emphasize how determined people are to believe something despite any compelling evidence that contradicts it.

Like you, it makes me sad to see people indoctrinating their children with this material. Although, it doesn't surprise me that a kid would pretend to channel good ole Abe. I'm sure they see how much their parents love Abraham and know that it's an easy way to get attention. Personally, I just pretended to be sick, but this kid seems to have it figured out.

 

[JJM 777]

Kids at age 3 - 9 easily take at face value everything told to them by their parents and religious community. Teenagers are more difficult.

 

[MrBooglemaumau]

...Pushy parents will do anything to get their kid noticed..He should be out playing real games with his friends....I'm disgusted !

 

[Joey McGee]

Lol. I'm wildly surprised that you even knew I have a blog. Yeah, I was there too (really really into Abraham). There was a time where I never questioned anything they said. I'm sure I even had big, Scientology-eyes every time I talked about them. I was fairly fantasy prone, so I was an easy, gullible convert. I think the red flag for me was that everyone involved with the teachings talk about thinking independently and guiding themselves, all the while using the rhetoric, language, and examples of Abraham. But as you said, there is something appealing about this sort of magical thinking that keeps people in it. In fact, the comments I get on the blog just emphasize how determined people are to believe something despite any compelling evidence that contradicts it.

Like you, it makes me sad to see people indoctrinating their children with this material. Although, it doesn't surprise me that a kid would pretend to channel good ole Abe. I'm sure they see how much their parents love Abraham and know that it's an easy way to get attention. Personally, I just pretended to be sick, but this kid seems to have it figured out.

Actually, the spirits told me that you have a blog.

I followed a convo between you and INOUTER there that was quite revealing. (The First Person I've Seen Capitalize Every Word They Type) He focused a lot on the fact that a) he feels good and b) amazing creation coincidences happen, as the entire reason he does it. Nothing is going to shock him out of that unless he begins to find alternative explanations for these miracles.

The feel good part is straight up evolutionary biology and psychology, no problems there. The coincidence part is harder to peel away. Amazing coincidences are part of our natural world, for natural reasons, but you need to look at every case specifically and break it down for the person to understand why they are seeing it as meaningful. Mlodinow did a great job with The Drunkard's Walk. (45min talk @Google)

I'm not even entirely sure that there is nothing to intention or coincidences. Daryl Bem's "Time Traveling Porn" paper caused outrage but I don't know if it's wrong, I don't have the time or expertise. What I do know is that most of the stuff they say is wrong. Like when Oprah heard about bubbles and suddenly noticed a bubble blower that had been on her desk 3 weeks without her noticing, left as a gift, and called that the secret. That's debunkable, no issues, and so are 95% of coincidence claims (kind of like ufo claims haha) I'd be interested in your thoughts on debunking the coincidences.

Anyway the wisest words on the Law of Attraction were spoken by Dave Chappelle in his hilarious stand-up about it. (NSFW)

 

[kyra1985]

Actually, the spirits told me that you have a blog.

I followed a convo between you and INOUTER there that was quite revealing. (The First Person I've Seen Capitalize Every Word They Type) He focused a lot on the fact that a) he feels good and b) amazing creation coincidences happen, as the entire reason he does it. Nothing is going to shock him out of that unless he begins to find alternative explanations for these miracles.

The feel good part is straight up evolutionary biology and psychology, no problems there. The coincidence part is harder to peel away. Amazing coincidences are part of our natural world, for natural reasons, but you need to look at every case specifically and break it down for the person to understand why they are seeing it as meaningful. Mlodinow did a great job with The Drunkard's Walk. (45min talk @Google)

I'm not even entirely sure that there is nothing to intention or coincidences. Daryl Bem's "Time Traveling Porn" paper caused outrage but I don't know if it's wrong, I don't have the time or expertise. What I do know is that most of the stuff they say is wrong. Like when Oprah heard about bubbles and suddenly noticed a bubble blower that had been on her desk 3 weeks without her noticing, left as a gift, and called that the secret. That's debunkable, no issues, and so are 95% of coincidence claims (kind of like ufo claims haha) I'd be interested in your thoughts on debunking the coincidences.

Anyway the wisest words on the Law of Attraction were spoken by Dave Chappelle in his hilarious stand-up about it. (NSFW)

Wow, glad you have such a solid connection to the spirit world ; ) Yes, my interaction with INOUTER is a pretty typical one with a self-professed "Aber." They like that it makes them feel good and claims to explain away the mysteries of the world. Most of them don't know anything (and don't want to know anything) about cognitive biases.

Speaking of which, thanks for the link to "The Drunkard's Walk." I'd actually never seen it before, but it's wonderful. I explain LOA with the Law of Very Large Numbers. Also, post hoc fallacy (and all forms of cognitive biases). As someone who was using the teachings, I was doing many processes/exercises, every day, so when something happened that was related to one of them, I gave credit to the process/exercise. Of course, I just gave excuses for all the things that didn't come because of the processes/exercises. I think this explains the majority of coincidences with LOA. Oprah's is pretty easy. She is constantly looking for the Divine in coincidences, so it's hardly surprising that she gets occasional "hits." And I feel that's the way it is with most people who are involved in these teachings. I don't necessarily debunk people's experiences, but I do offer alternative explanations and ask them to consider them for themselves.

Lol. I remember when I first saw that Chappelle bit. "Do you know what this b***h says the secret to life is?" Brilliant stuff.

 

[kyra1985]

wow - that is actually a bit unsettling.

right?!

 

[Joey McGee]

Wow, glad you have such a solid connection to the spirit world ; ) Yes, my interaction with INOUTER is a pretty typical one with a self-professed "Aber." They like that it makes them feel good and claims to explain away the mysteries of the world. Most of them don't know anything (and don't want to know anything) about cognitive biases.

It's so hard just to get across the concept of what evidence is. I think you have to anchor ways that they use reason in other areas of life, and show how there is compartmentalization. "You still put your seatbelt on even though you use the LoA right?"

Speaking of which, thanks for the link to "The Drunkard's Walk." I'd actually never seen it before, but it's wonderful.

Look for Mlodinow & Shermer debating Chopra when the video comes out, was taped a few days ago.

I don't necessarily debunk people's experiences, but I do offer alternative explanations and ask them to consider them for themselves.

I remember that being directly challenged or "debunked" didn't work on me either, but the firm, deep skepticism, a huge commitment, rubbed off on me and I couldn't enjoy my woo peace anymore. I think we need to be positive but ruthless if we're going to save our friends and family from this "cult"

Lol. I remember when I first saw that Chappelle bit. "Do you know what this b***h says the secret to life is?" Brilliant stuff.

I literally cried with tears the first time I saw that. Born into a hippie community really so it was a long time coming...

To keep it in retrospect, as insane as Abraham is, the worst thing about their members is that they are ridiculously positive and overwhelming with fake happiness. Or are there horror stories I just haven't come across?

 

[thebigm]

right?!

I watched it a few times, it's really creepy.

I feel sorry for the kid.

 

[kyra1985]

Look for Mlodinow & Shermer debating Chopra when the video comes out, was taped a few days ago.

That sounds really exciting! I love the Dawkins/Chopra debate.

I remember that being directly challenged or "debunked" didn't work on me either, but the firm, deep skepticism, a huge commitment, rubbed off on me and I couldn't enjoy my woo peace anymore. I think we need to be positive but ruthless if we're going to save our friends and family from this "cult"

Same here. I was even saying that whole thing about how "I don't care if it's a fraud. It makes me happy." This conveniently was an idea that Abraham had put into my head. I agree that directly challenging people involved is not the way to go. In fact, my entire blog is not made to convert people as much as it is to inform those who aren't a part of it who are trying to figure out what it's all about and whether there's really anything to it. When people involved with the teachings confront me, I try to let them know that I'm not trying to convert them. I just want to make the information available for those who are looking for it.

To keep it in retrospect, as insane as Abraham is, the worst thing about their members is that they are ridiculously positive and overwhelming with fake happiness. Or are there horror stories I just haven't come across?

Well, I think it's a lot more dangerous than people realize. I was doing all the feel good processes while my life got progressively worse and worse, but I "didn't care" because as long as I felt good, it didn't matter. I ignored my family (they were too "out of the vortex" for me). There was one point in my life where I just locked myself in my room, listening to Abraham CDs. From what I've heard, I'm not the only one who's had this experience. Listening to Abraham CDs was literally like a drug, and not much else made me as "happy" as that did. Also, I remember feeling incredibly guilty whenever anything bad happened to me--like I must have attracted that to myself...I don't think that's a very healthy perspective on life. In fact, I'd say it's psychologically damaging. Also, the idea of using emotions instead of logic as guidance leads people to do some pretty dumb things.

Aside from that, I've heard some rather frightening stories. There are people who have neglected medical attention in favor of "releasing resistance" (because Abraham continually espouses that all incurable ailments can be released overnight if you can release the resistance that caused it). And while Abraham does not explicitly reject the idea of medicine, they have likened it to using a chainsaw on the body and even suggested that going to the doctor's is "looking for trouble." Also, considering their emotional guidance system, when you say, "Which feels better--surgery or releasing this illness mentally?" clearly the one that feels better is the latter. I'd say few people get lovey-dovey feelings when they think about getting operated on, but that shouldn't discourage them from getting treatment. So I think that is dangerous. Also, the narcissism that it encourages has broken up a lot of families/relationships. People don't want to be around their "out of the vortex" partners (who may very well just be normal people).

But I am willing to say that there are far more dangerous teachings out there than Abraham.

 

[case#46cw39]

Personally I prefer my be happy philosophy to be without woo, and am a follower of the Cult of Holly Dolly ...

Everybody is a sucker for a happy cult, specially the heavily drunk of the 21st century. Add some woo, a failed educational system, and start countin the bucks!

 

[kyra1985]

I watched it a few times, it's really creepy.

I feel sorry for the kid.

The whole "Stay tuned for more Abraham Jr" at the end made it that much more creepy.

 

[Joey McGee]

Same here. I was even saying that whole thing about how "I don't care if it's a fraud. It makes me happy." This conveniently was an idea that Abraham had put into my head.

Really, wow! Like I said it's just the most amazing memetic organism ever. It's got everything. Sometimes I just want to become a superwoo just to enjoy the endless delirium.

I agree that directly challenging people involved is not the way to go. In fact, my entire blog is not made to convert people as much as it is to inform those who aren't a part of it who are trying to figure out what it's all about and whether there's really anything to it. When people involved with the teachings confront me, I try to let them know that I'm not trying to convert them. I just want to make the information available for those who are looking for it.

I gleefully revel in the opportunity to destroy someone's cult worldview. People say "Hey, go along to get along won't cha?" That's what people did to me, no one had the gall or the skill to go all the way debating with me. It was something like the first person who did and the spell was shattered. So I try to go all the way whenever I can with everyone who is willing.

Well, I think it's a lot more dangerous than people realize. I was doing all the feel good processes while my life got progressively worse and worse, but I "didn't care" because as long as I felt good, it didn't matter. I ignored my family (they were too "out of the vortex" for me). There was one point in my life where I just locked myself in my room, listening to Abraham CDs. From what I've heard, I'm not the only one who's had this experience. Listening to Abraham CDs was literally like a drug, and not much else made me as "happy" as that did.

Also, I remember feeling incredibly guilty whenever anything bad happened to me--like I must have attracted that to myself...I don't think that's a very healthy perspective on life. In fact, I'd say it's psychologically damaging. Also, the idea of using emotions instead of logic as guidance leads people to do some pretty dumb things.

Aside from that, I've heard some rather frightening stories. There are people who have neglected medical attention in favor of "releasing resistance" (because Abraham continually espouses that all incurable ailments can be released overnight if you can release the resistance that caused it). And while Abraham does not explicitly reject the idea of medicine, they have likened it to using a chainsaw on the body and even suggested that going to the doctor's is "looking for trouble." Also, considering their emotional guidance system, when you say, "Which feels better--surgery or releasing this illness mentally?" clearly the one that feels better is the latter. I'd say few people get lovey-dovey feelings when they think about getting operated on, but that shouldn't discourage them from getting treatment. So I think that is dangerous. Also, the narcissism that it encourages has broken up a lot of families/relationships. People don't want to be around their "out of the vortex" partners (who may very well just be normal people).

But I am willing to say that there are far more dangerous teachings out there than Abraham.

Thanks for bringing all of this up, It's truly a rotten system. No wonder you need to "follow your bliss" to the extreme degree, if you're not totally in outer space all of the time, the truth about reality would be overwhelming and the system would collapse. A truly daunting task to get people to give up their special toy huh?!

 

[kyra1985]

Really, wow! Like I said it's just the most amazing memetic organism ever. It's got everything. Sometimes I just want to become a superwoo just to enjoy the endless delirium.

What a coincidence. Sometimes I just want to become a superwoo guru and make lots of money to put people into endless deliriums.

I gleefully revel in the opportunity to destroy someone's cult worldview. People say "Hey, go along to get along won't cha?" That's what people did to me, no one had the gall or the skill to go all the way debating with me. It was something like the first person who did and the spell was shattered. So I try to go all the way whenever I can with everyone who is willing.

I never thought of it from that angle. No one ever debated me about it, but it's likely if someone had forced me to think about it skeptically, I would have caved.

No wonder you need to "follow your bliss" to the extreme degree, if you're not totally in outer space all of the time, the truth about reality would be overwhelming and the system would collapse. A truly daunting task to get people to give up their special toy huh?!

Their special toy and their "special friend" (Abraham) ; )