Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[RoseMontague]

Amanda Knox has severe mental illness that was not revealed because of doctor/patient confidentiality. However, this information was leaked to me by unamed sources. I have now posted this information on my French flower arranging blog, making it of course 100% true.

Wow, this is easy!

I had no doubt you are going to cling to this one as long as possible. I'll go with the Massei reasoning and say if Nara was not near deaf and did not spend time in the psychiatric hospital, then I can see no reason that Oggi would report it.

 

[babycondor]

Nara YouTube video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nd-Th8lIxyo

 

[Alt+F4]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nd-Th8lIxyo

Nara certainly doesn't seem "near deaf" in that video. In addition, when she testified at trial did she need any accommodations such as having the questions repeated to her or asking the lawyers to speak loudly?

 

[HumanityBlues]

Maybe while she was in the psychiatric hospital? Too funny, these super-witnesses. What was it that Massei said about Nara?

Now I see the advantage to not sequestering the jury! And boy is it fun to watch alt-f4 try to rationalize this. Very funny!

 

[Draca]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nd-Th8lIxyo

Thanks for posting that babycondor.



Here is part of Raffaele's appeal on Nara:

Testimony of Nara Capezzali


The defense argues that Nara Capezzali’s testimony is held to be unreliable. She contradicts her own testimony and is also contradicted by other witness testimony. Three other witnesses testified having been near the cottage at the time Nara claims she heard a scream.


All three were dealing with a broken down vehicle close by and none of them heard a scream. Another witness, Antonella Monacchia, heard an argument between a man and a woman and then a scream. Both were shouting in Italian. Antonella testified to have then opened her window to see if she could hear more. What she heard was total silence. She heard no footsteps on the iron stairs or the rocks below. Antonella’a testimony completely contradicts Nara’s testimony.


The prosecution believed that Amanda and Raffaele were barefoot in the cottage. They would not have been able to put shoes on and get to the location where Nara heard the scream in the timeframe described by Nara.


Nara makes other statements that are known to be false. She claimed that she heard kids saying that a girl had been killed. She states this happened at 11:00am, on the day Meredith’s body was discovered. The problem is, the murder was not discovered until around 2 hours later.


Nara also claims that she saw Amanda and Raffaele standing by the parking garage observing the cottage on the day the murder was discovered. She said there were emergency vehicles everywhere. This is known to be false. After the emergency vehicles would have arrived, Amanda and Raffaele were with the police the entire time. This is documented. They were never anywhere near the parking garage at that time.


Nara Capezzali was influenced by journalists and cannot be considered a credible witness.


http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/appeal4.html#anchor_172

 

[Antony]

So this is her focus entirely? What's she like in real life, since you obviously know her and her daily schedule of heartbreak.

So this is all you can think of in response - to latch onto a twisted version of the argument being made in an attempt to change the subject.

Getting back to the point of the thread: Vanessa Sollecito doesn't have any obligation to refer to the situation of the Kercher family when discussing her brother's situation. It is callous and unreasonable to expect her to do so.

 

[HumanityBlues]

The wikipedia page.

They are accredited, but if you scroll down to the controversies section it's pretty clear that this ain't exactly a prestigious centre of excellence in teaching and research.

It's amazing the kind of credentials they expect from anyone who believes in innocence, but on the TJMK website, this graduate of a school no better than a driver's ed university is upgraded to "criminologist".

Peter Quennell writes: "Will Savive is a New York area criminologist.....". SHAM.

 

[snook1]

Not cool.

Yes, so very not cool.

 

[snook1]

It appears you were quicker than me. Is the case falling apart?

Yes, the case is falling apart. Not only the defense is tearing it apart, but as the newest revelations came in, it became clear that it's the beggining of the end. I hope that Amanda and Raffaele will be home very soon.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

Antony

That's why it's disgusting: she is a member of a family in an extreme situation; you have not shown any acknowledgement of that; and yet you want to burden her with conditions on what she can say or can't say.

I made no judgement of Vanessa Sollecito’s comments, I did not state she was not entitled to her point of view, I merely asked how she would describe the Kercher family’s situation given their daughter\sister was brutally murdered an extreme situation for sure, maybe you don’t think so?

I indentify with the murder victims family and make no apology in doing so, whilst you indentify with Raffaele and Amanda. I could understand your response if I had attacked Snook1’s post or its contents but I did not do so. Once again JREF is public forum which as far as I know has no public position on Meredith murder and as such I’ll post within the membership rules, unlike your response, I responded to a post with a question not an accusation.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

Yes, so very not cool.

Interesting response, its okay for you to post about how the Vanessa Sollecito describes her families situation, but somehow wrong or “not cool” to ask about the murder victim’s family?

This forum is not aligned to Raffaele and Amanda.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

a terrible tragedy

I made no judgement of Vanessa Sollecito’s comments, I did not state she was not entitled to her point of view, I merely asked how she would describe the Kercher family’s situation given their daughter\sister was brutally murdered an extreme situation for sure, maybe you don’t think so?

I indentify with the murder victims family and make no apology in doing so, whilst you indentify with Raffaele and Amanda. I could understand your response if I had attacked Snook1’s post or its contents but I did not do so. Once again JREF is public forum which as far as I know has no public position on Meredith murder and as such I’ll post within the membership rules, unlike your response, I responded to a post with a question not an accusation.

CoulsdonUK,

Do you think that Vanessa would describe it any differently than 99.99999% of the people on the planet would, a terrible tragedy? When you first said that you identify with the victim's family, and others identified with Raffaele and Amanda, I reacted negatively. If (for the sake of argument) we assume that they are innocent, one should logically identify with both Meredith's family and Amanda and Raffaele (and their families). However, I recognize that our emotional responses are not logical, and may sometimes be out of proportion to what logic suggests that they should be. If this idea underlies your comment, then I understand it better than I did before.

 

[snook1]

Interesting response, its okay for you to post about how the Vanessa Sollecito describes her families situation, but somehow wrong or “not cool” to ask about the murder victim’s family?

This forum is not aligned to Raffaele and Amanda.

I talked to Vanessa Sollecito briefly. I wanted to show her my sympathy and I did that by assuring her of my support. Now, how on earth would I be able to do that by asking how Meredith's family is dealing with everything right now? Not only it would be inappropriate, stupid, immature, rude and not cool, but also it would suggest that I have doubts about Raffaele's innocence and it's not the case here. Never was.


So, please, feel free to ask Vanessa Sollecito what ever you want, but don't expect people to be rude, when there's really no reason to be like that.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

doctorate

1) My seemingly insignificant repeat of *your* lack of the 'Dr' academic title for Gino apparently struck a raw academic nerve with you, another of like genre.
The emphasis and implications that you allocate to the same is simply much, much more emphasis than rationally warranted by those of us not overly enamoured with professorial protocol.

pilot padron,

I referred to her simply as Sarah Gino. Earning a doctorate takes time and effort. Those who do are usually learned but not infallible. You are no doubt aware that the credentials of both Dr. Stefanoni and the credentials of the signers of the open letter of 19 November 2009 have been debated here extensively. Credentials are a portion of how one evaluates the credibility of an expert witness. However, if an expert witness says something that is contradicted a strong majority of other experts, his or her credibility suffers.

I hope you continue to post here regularly.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

Halides1

Do you think that Vanessa would describe it any differently than 99.99999% of the people on the planet would, a terrible tragedy?

I hope not.

When you first said that you identify with the victim's family, and others identified with Raffaele and Amanda, I reacted negatively.

Why would you react negatively, I have no issue with those of you who believe in Raffaele and Amanda innocence you are entitled to your beliefs as am I.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

clarification

Halides1



I hope not.



Why would you react negatively, I have no issue with those of you who believe in Raffaele and Amanda innocence you are entitled to your beliefs as am I.

I reacted negatively because it seemed to me at the time that you were setting up a false dichotomy, as if being sympathetic to Amanda and Raffaele precluded being sympathetic to the Kerchers. I do not think that it is an either/or choice when one confines oneself to rational thought. Quite the contrary, I perceive both Meredith's family and the families of the accused as victims who deserve support and sympathy. However, I have expanded my views of what it means to identify with someone slightly, to include an emotion dimension. One might identify with one person of this whole nightmare/tragedy on an emotional level more than one identifies with someone else for reasons that have to do with one's own experiences. Such considerations might not be rational, but they would be perfectly understandable.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

I reacted negatively because it seemed to me at the time that you were setting up a false dichotomy, as if being sympathetic to Amanda and Raffaele precluded being sympathetic to the Kerchers. I do not think that it is an either/or choice when one confines oneself to rational thought. Quite the contrary, I perceive both Meredith's family and the families of the accused as victims who deserve support and sympathy. However, I have expanded my views of what it means to identify with someone slightly, to include an emotion dimension. One might identify with one person of this whole nightmare/tragedy on an emotional level more than one identifies with someone else for reasons that have to do with one's own experiences. Such considerations might not be rational, but they would be perfectly understandable.

Halides1

It would seem people are reacting to what they “think” I am saying rather than what I actually post, extraordinary!

 

[Antony]

I made no judgement of Vanessa Sollecito’s comments, I did not state she was not entitled to her point of view, I merely asked how she would describe the Kercher family’s situation given their daughter\sister was brutally murdered an extreme situation for sure, maybe you don’t think so?

What right have you to ask her that? Nobody would think of asking the Kerchers their view on what it's like to be unjustly imprisoned.

I indentify with the murder victims family and make no apology in doing so, whilst you indentify with Raffaele and Amanda. I could understand your response if I had attacked Snook1’s post or its contents but I did not do so. Once again JREF is public forum which as far as I know has no public position on Meredith murder and as such I’ll post within the membership rules, unlike your response, I responded to a post with a question not an accusation.

Believe me, I identify with the murdered girl's family very much; I can't think of anything worse than than to have a daughter or sister horribly killed, then to have the police investigation bungled and somebody completely innocent imprisoned for it. The Kerchers have still to face the reality in this case, which is that they have been cruelly used, and their trauma needlessly prolonged, by the negligence and incompetence of the Perugia police and courts.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

Antony

What right have you to ask her that? Nobody would think of asking the Kerchers their view on what it's like to be unjustly imprisoned.

It is not a question of “right”, I responded to Snook1’s post which mentioned Vanessa Sollecito’s comments. My post is below where do I demand anything from Vanessa Sollecito, my question is directed to the person who posted Snook1.

CoulsdonUK

Originally Posted by snook1
She actually said that it's a "great tragedy" for her family, I absolutely agreed and wished her all the best.

Snook1

I wonder what words Vanessa Sollecito would use to describe what has happened to the Kercher family, maybe you could ask her next time?

I would like to add that if I posted a conversation or a comment with someone from the Kercher family, I would expect people to respond with their particular opinion and or questions.

 

[Matthew Best]

Snook1

I wonder what words Vanessa Sollecito would use to describe what has happened to the Kercher family, maybe you could ask her next time?

What an idiotic thing to request.