Ed Pentagon - TruthMakesPeace

[jaydeehess]

Bob McIlvaine and others family members say it is insulting that the Government allocated about the same budget, $14 million to investigate Clinton & Monica, yet initially only $3 million then reluctantly $11 more, to investigating the murder of their loved ones and 3000 innocent people on 9/11.

I agree wholeheartedly. A $14 mill BJ?? Only in America!

$75 million in 1986 dollars was allocated to the Challenger disaster. We got NASA scientists and Nobel Prize Physicist Dr. Richard Feynman on the Investigation Committee. They investigated it scientifically, and produced a satisfying explanation. There are zero web sites or forums asking for a new Challenger Investigation. They did it right the first time. 9/11 has the most web pages calling for a new investigation than any crime in history. It has its own forum category on JREF.

Well ya see that's because there was a question about what caused the Challenger disaster. There is little doubt as to what caused the WTC structures to fall. A large fast aircraft with a load of thousands of gallons of jet fuel rammed them igniting large area office fires over several floors within seconds

For 9/11 there was not a single PhD in science or Civil Engineer, only Bush appointed politicians.

You do know about the NIST reports, right?
A question of money? IIRC NIST spent $20 mill

Is it difficult to navigate in your world with such blinders on?
ETA: Well I'm off to enjoy a weekend away with my wife.

hmmmm, wife, a concept perhaps foreign to members of the CiT

 

[Dash80]

I really don't know how you guys keep your cool here with all the truther BS being thrown at you repeatedly. I keep getting the urge to throw various household objects out of the nearest window. Dangerous to personal health too, I almost choked on my coffee reading some of the claims on this thread.


Anneliese

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

[...] but am not taking sides yet.

Translation: "I haven't decided which BS fantasy I like the most."

Because, clearly, you've already decided which "side" you don't want to be on...

I find it amazing but sad that otherwise intelligent people actually believe the Official Conspiracty Theory (OCT) [...]

We're all well aware of your position. There's really no reason for you to pull back on the crazy and attempt to take a more moderate stance. Unless, of course, your previous posts were uncritical, emotional nonsense.

 

[Dash80]

Cicorp, seems pretty clear to me which side you have taken. The side where you refuse to accept real substantial evidence even if it walked up and slapped you in the face. You robotically repeat the same old recycled fairytale no matter what.

 

[Oystein]

Translation: "I haven't decided which BS fantasy I like the most."

Because, clearly, you've already decided which "side" you don't want to be on...




We're all well aware of your position. There's really no reason for you to pull back on the crazy and attempt to take a more moderate stance. Unless, of course, your previous posts were uncritical, emotional nonsense.

Good points!

cicorp has started by rejecting a theory, but hasn't found the reason for this yet.

 

[Animal]

I agree wholeheartedly. A $14 mill BJ?? Only in America!



Well ya see that's because there was a question about what caused the Challenger disaster. There is little doubt as to what caused the WTC structures to fall. A large fast aircraft with a load of thousands of gallons of jet fuel rammed them igniting large area office fires over several floors within seconds


You do know about the NIST reports, right?
A question of money? IIRC NIST spent $20 mill

Is it difficult to navigate in your world with such blinders on?
ETA: Well I'm off to enjoy a weekend away with my wife.

hmmmm, wife, a concept perhaps foreign to members of the CiT

There is a very simple reason for the huge difference in costs. Architect and engineers are basically whores......and will accept little money in exchange for a lot of liability. Lawyers are the opposite.

 

[TruthersLie]

The photos you posted are very good. I agree a lot of chunks of concrete were found -- just not as many as one would expect. For example, stacks of concrete were found when buildings collapsed due to an earth quake in Ahmedabad, India.
http://911Experiments.org/FallingConcrete

arguments from ignorance and incredulity rock.

There is a massive difference between the two buildings. I'll give you a hint... the one in india was a CONCRETE building. The towers and wtc7 were not. They were steel framed buildings with a light weight concrete flooring.

Massive fail.

The cloud of concrete dust from each WTC was larger than one would expect, and reminiscent of a controlled demolition. We don't see so much dust covering the cars in Ahmedabad.

Arguments from ignorance and incredulity rock.
Since the towers were not concrete reinforced buildings (they had light weight concrete flooring) you are comparing apples to oranges. And doing it badly.

This is the bare assertion fallacy. You don't have any citation to support this claim about being "larger than one would expect." That is your own personal ignorance and incredulity speaking.

 

[TruthersLie]

Yes, I agree that to be truly independent, a 9/11 Commission should be independently funded.

http://NYCCan.org is raising funds for a new investigation, independent of tax dollars.

Donald Trump has been approached, offering to call it the http://TrumpCommission.org.
If he can spend millions judging beauty for Miss America, perhaps he will help judge truth for America.

Regardless of who funds it, the Commission must have subpoena powers to get to all the evidence it requests.
Everyone, even Bush & Cheney, should testify separately, publicly, and under oath.

[facepalm]

Do you know why Trump spens millions judging the beauty contests? Because it will make him tens of millions of dollars. Your general ignorance of commerce ranks up there with your general ignorance on most subjects as you have demonstrated here.

I'll agree with you about the need for a new independent investigation if you can show us any where that the numerous other investigations have gotten things substantially wrong. I'll wait for it.

 

[triforcharity]

I agree wholeheartedly. A $14 mill BJ??

The BJ was free. The 14 mil was to get her to leave afterwards......

 

[Dash80]

The BJ was free. The 14 mil was to get her to leave afterwards......

$14 million.. that's nothing compared to her dry cleaning bills!

 

[Craig4]

$14 million.. that's nothing compared to her dry cleaning bills!

Well it did come with a cigar.

 

[ozeco41]

I really don't know how you guys keep your cool here with all the truther BS being thrown at you repeatedly. I keep getting the urge to throw various household objects out of the nearest window. Dangerous to personal health too, I almost choked on my coffee reading some of the claims on this thread.


Anneliese

My "secrets" to remaining calm. No order of priority;

A) Nearly 50 years managing in public sector - much of that putting up with either political bullcrap or similar from customers who were dissatisfied with something or other;
B) I'm an old fart who doesn't need to get excited anyway; AND
C) Cold blooded objective thinker most of the time....can usually see through the fog.

EDIT PS forgot the most important one. Never let the Bs see that they are getting to you.

 

[Dash80]

My "secrets" to remaining calm. No order of priority;

A) Nearly 50 years managing in public sector - much of that putting up with either political bullcrap or similar from customers who were dissatisfied with something or other;
B) I'm an old fart who doesn't need to get excited anyway; AND
C) Cold blooded objective thinker most of the time....can usually see through the fog.

EDIT PS forgot the most important one. Never let the Bs see that they are getting to you.

Ah yes the most important one is exactly the mantra I use when my 7 year old daughter has a tantrum. I will apply this to truther BS tantrums in future.

 

[ozeco41]

Ah yes the most important one is exactly the mantra I use when my 7 year old daughter has a tantrum. I will apply this to truther BS tantrums in future.

In my case it is a 2 year old grandson.

 

[TruthMakesPeace]

Hanjour's Detour on Flight 77. Atta's Flight 11 Detour. Plane swap?

Flight 77 was never lost to RADAR.

Tell that to the 9/11 Commission. You include a graphic that has an incomplete route, then expect your other arguments to be taken on faith?

The "U" shaped detour on the western route is completely missing. You can see it on this graphic from USA Today.

Note the dotted line, signifying the route back to the Pentagon when Flight 77 was lost on radar, according to the Official 9/11 Commission Report, starting on page 24:

American 77 began deviating from its flight plan at 8:54...Two minutes later, it disappeared completely from radar...Shortly after 9:00, Indianapolis Center started notifying other agencies that American 77 was missing and had possibly crashed...The failure to find a primary radar return for American 77 led us to investigate this issue further....At 9:32, they found one...and at 9:38, seconds after impact, reported to the control tower: "looks like that aircraft crashed into the Pentagon sir."​

Flight 77 was lost on radar near Yeager Airport in Charleston WV, with a runway 6302 feet in length, serving both AA and UA. I am not claiming it swapped planes there, only that this needs to be checked out.

A new investigation commission needs to figure out why Hani Hanjour made this strange U turn, exposing him for a longer time to being shot down.

Similarly, why would Muhammed Atta want to expose himself to being shot down by taking a detour that wasted about 1/2 hour?

Note that Flight 11 leaves Boston, gets hijacked, then heads straight NORTH WEST towards Griffiss Air Force Base in Upstate New York. Hey, wrong way Muhammed! Then Flight 11 turns abruptly south to NYC to crash in to WTC 1.

Dr. Griscom (PhD Brown, Physics, Naval Research Laboratory scientist, chosen by NASA to analyze Moon rocks, 193 peer reviewed publications) hypothesizes a plane swap at the northern tip of Atta's Detour. Flight 175 also took a detour south, near McGuire AFB, then north, when it could have simply hit WTC 2 from the west. http://DavidGriscom.com/New911Hypothesis

It is also a strange coincidence that Flight 11 and Flight 175, both taking off from Boston but 20 minutes apart, crossed paths near Stewart Airport in down state New York, on their way to hit WTC 1 and 2. The probability of two planes detouring then intersecting like that by chance is small.

These are strange detours that are clearly visible using publicly available news data. The hijackers were not the greatest pilots, but they could surely read a compass, front and center on the plane's dash board. Critical Thinkers should welcome a New Investigation, if nothing else but to validate the OCT.

This link to a Flash animation shows the routes from all 4 flights on 9/11. (Still graphic is below.)
http://911Experiments.org/USAToday911Flights/USAToday911Flights.swf (Click on "See All Flights. Go")

 

[Craig4]

T

Dr. Griscom (PhD Brown, Physics, NRL scientist, chosen by NASA to analyze Moon rocks, 193 peer reviewed publications) hypothesizes a plane swap at the northern tip of Atta's Detour. Flight 175 also took a detour south, near McGuire AFB, then north, when it could have simply hit WTC 2 from the west. http://DavidGriscom.com/New911Hypothesis

So there is evidence of a plane swap? Who did the plane swap? What happened to the other plane/passengers? Where did this other plane come from? Where did the original plane go?

The good Doctor you cite isn't writing in his area of expertise as I'm not aware that there were any moon rocks on the aircraft.

 

[beachnut]

... Flight 77 was lost on radar near Yeager Airport in Charleston WV, with a runway 6302 feet in length, serving both AA and UA. I am not claiming it swapped planes there, only that this needs to be checked out.

We need to figure out why Hani Hanjour made this strange U turn, exposing him for a longer time to being shot down....

Look up primary, and secondary RADAR.

Hani did not delay, he turned to DC and kept flying. You must be using BS made up by a news source and 911 truth nuts, not valid research techniques.

The plane was never lost on RADAR.

Multiple RADAR sites recorded where 77 was. This why we know 77 impacted the Pentagon, beside the fact 77 was found in and around the Pentagon, along with the passengers on 77, and the FDR from 77.

The entire flight path of 77 was recorded at RADAR sites. That graphic is the complete flight path of 77, from takeoff to impact. The data is available, and the news sources are wrong. Don't trust anyone, plot the data yourself instead of posting nonsense.

The terrorists attacked the pilots, got in the seats, and turned the plane. Did you make up the u-turn delusion or what? Oh, you found it on the Internet, from errors made by news sources, and someone who makes up moronic delusions. The RADAR data is available and refutes your claim which you found from a nut on 911 issues.

Dr. Griscom appears to be nuts on 911. He failed to check the data and made up nonsense about 911. Crazy stuff. Nice find, another failed 911 truth claim.

 

[TruthMakesPeace]

hmmmm, wife, a concept perhaps foreign to members of the CiT

Familiar concept. She doesn't want to hear about 9/11. Thankfully there's JREF.
The only flight my wife wants to hear about is one to the Bahamas.

My USMC Drill Instructor, and wife, prepared me to transcend JREF insults.

I have sent witness point of view photos to them, but am not a member of CIT,
and don't agree Pentagon Police Officer Roberts is sufficient proof of a Fly Over.

On the other hand, I find the NOC testimonies of Pentagon Police Officers Brooks and Lagasse, et. al to be credible.

 

[beachnut]

Perhaps not. She doesn't want to hear about 9/11.
The only flight from Dulles she wants to hear about is one to the Bahamas.
My USMC Drill Instructor, and wife, enable me to transcend JREF insults.
I have sent witness point of view photos to them, but am not a member of CIT,
and don't agree Pentagon Police Officer Roberts is sufficient proof of a Fly Over.

It would have been better if your drill instructor and wife enabled you to find factual evidence and not make post which insult critical thinking, logic, and reality.

Most probably the specific aircraft type was Cold-War-era Navy A-3 converted to an unmanned air vehicle (UAV). UAVs are commonly referred to as “drones.”
David L. Griscom, Ph.D.
http://davidgriscom.com/New911Hypothesis

You found a nut on 911, at a web site of moronic woo. http://911experiments.org/

 

[TruthMakesPeace]

You must be using BS made up by a news source and 911 truth nuts

Must not. It is from USA Today, a main stream news source. They show a U turn was made. See the link provided in my other post.
http://www.usatoday.com/graphics/news/gra/gflightpath2/images/flash.swf

The plane was never lost on RADAR.

Then we need a New Investigation to correct the Official Report.
Do you have a URL for the source data for the diagram?
While you look for that, I'll look for the USA Today source data.
It is good critical thinking to check source data.

FDR from 77.

PilotsFor911Truth.org points out that the FDR was always in the hands of a potential suspect of the crime, and appears to have been manipulated.

The RADAR data is available and refutes your claim

Not my claim, USA Today. OK. I'll be happy to look at the factual evidence. Please send the URL. It should be used for a New Investigation or 9/11.

It would have been better if your drill instructor and wife enabled you to find factual evidence

Sir, Yes Sir!

a nut

How many "nuts" can get a PhD in Physics from an Ivy League university, head a department at the Naval Research Laboratory, be picked by NASA from thousands of scientists who wanted to study the Moon rocks, Program Manager at DARPA, be a Fulbright Fellow, be the Honoree of a scientific conference, and 193 papers published in peer reviewed scientific journals?
http://DavidGriscom.com/vitae