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My argument against materialism

punshhh said:
Well I can speak from personal experience, I was aware that I had some personality traits while growing up which made social interaction difficult.
Like shyness, over sensitivity, disrespectful of some things etc.
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Do you mind me asking - are you on the autism spectrum?

[edit]Re-reading, this sounds as though it might have been meant as being mean. It is not - I am on the spectrum myself - the description of your personality traits just sounded a little familiar[/edit]
 
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punshhh said:
By "closer", I mean category 2 is not coloured by the rose tinted glasses of the personality and ego.
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Well, first I would like to point out that this is incorrect. Perception is in your territory area, and it is in fact colored by personality and ego. That is why in the sciences it is generally preferred to do double blind tests, for example.

Second, the theoretical, which is in your map area, may be closer to how the world is or further away; yet you're categorizing anything thought comes up with as "polluted" by personality and ego. Is that useful? And more to the point, is it even true? Sure, bias is a big problem that gets in the way of truth. But look at my avatar. It appears to bulge out (your territory), but we really know that all of the lines are straight (your map).

Isn't this particular "map" closer to reality than this "territory"? Is it legitimate to say that, hold on, those lines may actually be bulging, because our theory that everything is straight is colored by our personality and ego?

Finally, let's get reflective. Your claim that thought is further away because it is colored by personality and ego is itself thought. Being thought, it would be colored by personality and ego. Isn't this in itself a problem?
 
Isn't it strange that punshhh thinks that we are all scientists? He does seem to split the world up into scientists and people who agree with him. That is probably his definition of the word scientist,somebody who disagrees with him.
 
punshhh said:
I appreciate the value of calculus, I use a system of thought similar to this.

Calculus has not provided us with omniscience, hence there are still Inconceivables.
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Can you show us some of the equations that you use in your own version of calculus?
 
Robin said:
Do you mind me asking - are you on the autism spectrum?

[edit]Re-reading, this sounds as though it might have been meant as being mean. It is not - I am on the spectrum myself - the description of your personality traits just sounded a little familiar[/edit]
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My youngest brother has an autistic child and the thought had struck me too.
 
punshhh said:
.. I am not like the run of mill religious cranks you might come across on this forum. I am the real thing...
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:dl:

At least you're honest about it :D

ETA: D'oh! Iaca beat me to it. Sorry, I've been away for a couple of days.
 
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dafydd said:
More gibberish. You appear to have an inexhaustible supply of it. Do you mine it from beyond the event horizon of the formless?
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Your posts are beginning to fall of the edge of my event horizon, I wont be able to see them much longer the way your going on:p
 
Robin said:
Do you mind me asking - are you on the autism spectrum?

[edit]Re-reading, this sounds as though it might have been meant as being mean. It is not - I am on the spectrum myself - the description of your personality traits just sounded a little familiar[/edit]
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Thats fine, I don't find it mean or offensive. I had a little trouble with dislexia at school. It was strange, things like English language and maths were not easy to learn, but other things like physics and Geography seemed to come naturally with no effort.
 
laca said:
Come on! Every post you make hints at your belief that science cannot explain everything and that mysticism has useful answers. But to endulge you, I'll link to just one of your posts:


Satisfied? Now could you explain what you mean by "usefull result"?
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Uh, I've been making bold claims have I.

I have a friend who has studied yoga to quite an advanced level. He often stands on his head ie, the lotus position upside down. He found it very beneficial, he said it would clear his head in the morning like nothing else.
 
Robin said:
and nothing ever will

Strange though - if I say that there are things that are not conceivable then I have a concept of them.
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Yes, this is a consequence of reason as I see it.

I have a concept of God although I continually regard God as inconceivable.
 
punshhh said:
Uh, I've been making bold claims have I.

I have a friend who has studied yoga to quite an advanced level. He often stands on his head ie, the lotus position upside down. He found it very beneficial, he said it would clear his head in the morning like nothing else.
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Standing on his head,what an advanced human being. Does he know what the unknowable is too?
 
punshhh said:
Thats fine, I don't find it mean or offensive. I had a little trouble with dislexia at school. It was strange, things like English language and maths were not easy to learn, but other things like physics and Geography seemed to come naturally with no effort.
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Not physics.
 
punshhh said:
Your posts are beginning to fall of the edge of my event horizon, I wont be able to see them much longer the way your going on:p
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Does it ever enter your head that you might be wrong? You avoid all questions. You say that there are things that science doesn't know but you won't tell what they are,instead you tell us that your pal can stand on his head. I am interested in your own version of the calculus. Does it include limits, functions, derivatives and integrals?
 
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punshhh said:
Also it is necessary to develop a realistic concept or attitude of your own position in the universe.
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This is where science comes in. We now have a far more realistic idea of our position in the universe than we ever did.

This is why I keep going on about unknowns and mysteries. Awareness of these enables one to find a realistic perspective on existence.
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We are aware of unknowns and mysteries - they're what keeps scientists intrigued and science progressing. You've been 'going on' about fantasies.

I know this sounds daft to a scientist, but it is a tried and tested technique. Not tested in scientific terms, rather through personal testimony.
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What is this 'tried and tested' technique - to 'keep going on about unknowns and mysteries' ? And what has this tried and tested technique achieved? where are the results, the data, the evidence for it's efficacy? Has it given you a useful, explanatory, predictive, working model of the universe and our place in it? A toolkit that allows us to mould the structure of organic and inorganic matter, rewrite our own genetic code, talk across the world, walk on the moon...? Or was that science?

The really interesting unknowns and mysteries are out there in the real, material world, where we can use the twin tools of science and patience to find, examine, describe, model, and finally explain them.

Hamlet says it best:

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
 
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