My argument against materialism

[dafydd]

It is intellectual orientation or perspective that I am interested in, along with some conception of humanities and my own position in the scheme of things.
It is all positioning and awareness of true positions.

Is that supposed to mean something? What does "positioning and awareness of true positions" mean? Something to do with the Kama Sutra? You are making up nonsense phrases yet again.

 

[dafydd]

I already know that, I am insignificant.

However I am important in Punshhh world.

A fantasy world.

 

[dafydd]

No.


Sadly, also no.


Yes, and no.

No,because it is Mammon. Don't know what this mamon is.

 

[laca]

Minimising this problem is one of the first steps in mysticism too.

How does it try to minimize it? Except ignoring it altogether, that is.

One cannot step onto the spiritual path without having taken off your blinkers. You would stumble and fall over at the first step.

IOW, first you have to believe in order to "get it". Not going to happen, sorry. Not without justification.

Come on Pixy I am not like the run of mill religious cranks you might come across on this forum. I am the real thing, I have been contemplating these ideas for years, this is basic stuff.

In the previous part you behaved exactly like a run of the mill religious crank.

Is it inconceivable that there are other schools of thought along the same lines as materialism, but not science based?

Even if there are, they are completely and utterly useless. Science is not an exclusionary club. All that is required is to follow the scientific method, which has been proven to be the only one so far that can give real and useful results.

 

[laca]

They do produce usefull results for their practitioners. However they have always been a minority of the population.

Citation needed.

Science is king these days, especially now that mamon (capitalism) is faltering.

 

[Dancing David]

What is energy?
can you conceive the answer?

I use observations of nature to ponder the nature of what is inconceivable to humans.

For example it is inconceivable;

to an ameoba to breath air,
to an ant to use a mobile phone,
to my cat to fly in an airoplane,
to a man in an uncontacted Amazonian tribe that his body is made of countless spherical atoms.
to a dolphin that the ocean is on the surface of a sphere.

It is conceivable that every living thing we know would find aspects of reality which humanity is aware of inconceivable.

Why should humans be any different?
Are we in full possession of the facts?

Take a look at the "what do we know" thread.

What was your face before your were conceived?

 

[laca]

I have not conceived any things which are inconceivable to me, I accept they are there, or should I say here.

Why?

There are some on this forum who deny that there are inconceivable things for humans.

Who?

Look, punshhh, it's easy. If there are inconceivable things for humans, it is impossible for them to find out and therefore completely useless to even consider such things. Think about it.

By now you might have an inkling about what I am concerned with.

It is intellectual orientation or perspective that I am interested in, along with some conception of humanities and my own position in the scheme of things.
It is all positioning and awareness of true positions.

Well, I hate to break it to you, but if you're concerned with true positions, then mysticism and the spiritual path are the worst you could have chosen.

 

[dafydd]

Will you stop going on about that, I told you it is only an idea.

I was a lad when the first planet of the apes movie came out and the closing sequence had a moving effect on me.

Can you tell me what the difference is between my phrase "the Schwarzschild radius of the unknown." and your "the event horizon of the formless."? My phrase was an idea too,some nonsense that popped into my head. If your phrase does have meaning,please explain it to me.

 

[tsig]

I already know that, I am insignificant.

However I am important in Punshhh world.

Does this Punshhh world have any connection to reality?

 

[tsig]

Can you tell me what the difference is between my phrase "the Schwarzschild radius of the unknown." and your "the event horizon of the formless."? My phrase was an idea too,some nonsense that popped into my head. If your phrase does have meaning,please explain it to me.

Well there's a poster here at JREF called EventHorizon maybe it's a reference to him/her.

 

[yy2bggggs]

I would say that in the act of recognition there is no thought involved as I use the word. The last three might require thought, if not clearly recognisable initially.

Alright, so you're saying something like that "immediate" mind activity constitutes territory, and "delayed" mind activity constitutes map? Or, alternately, mind activity correlating to perceived intentional effort constitutes map and mind activity lacking a correlation to perceived intentional effort corresponds to territory?

Yes the physical world is oblivious to pennies and the content of human brains etc.

And yet that is your territory, which presumably is closer to the real physical world than a map such as the notion that the penny is a lump of copper leaking parts of itself into the air.

Unless by "closer" you mean something else besides correlation. If so, please explain what that is. I would caution you to keep in mind, though, that the brain is part of the real physical world.

 

[punshhh]

Alright, so you're saying something like that "immediate" mind activity constitutes territory, and "delayed" mind activity constitutes map? Or, alternately, mind activity correlating to perceived intentional effort constitutes map and mind activity lacking a correlation to perceived intentional effort corresponds to territory?

This is close to my meaning, I would add a third category though;

1, Map=intentional mental thought

2, Territory=immediate mind activity or instinct.

3, The physical world=the material world

And yet that is your territory, which presumably is closer to the real physical world than a map such as the notion that the penny is a lump of copper leaking parts of itself into the air.

Unless by "closer" you mean something else besides correlation. If so, please explain what that is. I would caution you to keep in mind, though, that the brain is part of the real physical world.

The map room can only access the physical world through the territory as I have used it here.

By "closer", I mean category 2 is not coloured by the rose tinted glasses of the personality and ego.

By personality I mean the conditioning of the self conscious, or thinking mind. This correlates to the architecture of the map room in this analogy.

By ego I mean the contents of the map room. This includes opinions, theories, emotional hook ups, subjective activity.

 

[punshhh]

Baloney.


It's basic baloney.


You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Baloney, is this your longer version of no.

Lets be more specific, I propose two versions of the word;

inconceivable=cannot currently be comprehended
Inconceivable=incapable of being comprehended

I would not be so bold as to say that humanity is any different to any other animal when it comes to these two categories. Just a bit more advanced in its use of the brain.

 

[punshhh]

Read the articles. It's been done.

Thanks I will read the articles when I have time.

Are you saying that biological life has been reproduced in the laboratory.

 

[laca]

This is close to my meaning, I would add a third category though;

Oh, you would, wouldn't you? Except that in the analogy of the map and the territory there is no room for another category.

1, Map=intentional mental thought

2, Territory=immediate mind activity or instinct.

3, The physical world=the material world

Oh, that's your third category? Hilarious.

The map room can only access the physical world through the territory as I have used it here.

By "closer", I mean category 2 is not coloured by the rose tinted glasses of the personality and ego.

By personality I mean the conditioning of the self conscious, or thinking mind. This correlates to the architecture of the map room in this analogy.

By ego I mean the contents of the map room. This includes opinions, theories, emotional hook ups, subjective activity.

Could you rephrase that in some other language than gibberish?

 

[laca]

Baloney, is this your longer version of no.

The dot. Is it your version of a question mark?

Lets be more specific, I propose two versions of the word;

inconceivable=cannot currently be comprehended
Inconceivable=incapable of being comprehended

I would not be so bold as to say that humanity is any different to any other animal when it comes to these two categories. Just a bit more advanced in its use of the brain.

Some humans, at least...

 

[laca]

Thanks I will read the articles when I have time.

Are you saying that biological life has been reproduced in the laboratory.

What do you think "it's been done" means? Do you understand English, or just gibberish? BTW. see, when I'm asking a question, I'm using a question mark.

 

[SusanB-M1]

Yes we do have an advantage over the ant in that we have the ability to learn from experience and modify our behavior.

I can see no way in which this makes us any different, there are still things which are inconceivable to us. We are just a bit further along the evolutionary tree.

Seems to me that there is absolutely nothing that could be considerred inconceivable, since as soon as even the most fleeting thought about something is in a human mind, then it has become conceivable.

Minimising this problem is one of the first steps in mysticism too. One cannot step onto the spiritual path without having taken off your blinkers. You would stumble and fall over at the first step.

I would say entirely the contrary - as soon as you wander from reality and think mysticism is a better path to follow, rather than to think about as an interesting aspect of the imagination, you put on those blinkers.

Come on Pixy I am not like the run of mill religious cranks you might come across on this forum. I am the real thing, I have been contemplating these ideas for years, this is basic stuff.

Well, I have certainly seen a few on another forum I go to where the word salad produced is longer for a start!

 

[punshhh]

How does it try to minimize it? Except ignoring it altogether, that is.



IOW, first you have to believe in order to "get it". Not going to happen, sorry. Not without justification.





In the previous part you behaved exactly like a run of the mill religious crank.



Even if there are, they are completely and utterly useless. Science is not an exclusionary club. All that is required is to follow the scientific method, which has been proven to be the only one so far that can give real and useful results.

I know I wont change your mind on this, I will answer your question though.

In my reply to yy2bggggs half an hour ago, I refered to the personality and the ego. These colour the minds awareness of reality, in spiritualism it is necessary to factor out this colouring by a process of psychological introspection.
Also it is necessary to develop a realistic concept or attitude of your own position in the universe. This is why I keep going on about unknowns and mysteries. Awareness of these enables one to find a realistic perspective on existence.

I know this sounds daft to a scientist, but it is a tried and tested technique. Not tested in scientific terms, rather through personal testimony.

 

[punshhh]

What was your face before your were conceived?

It was the sum of all that has been conceived.