Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Draca]

Toto and the rest

duplicate

 

[Draca]

So I think it's pretty obvious that the tide is turning in this case. Some guilters will disagree, but let's be honest-----not that perceptive to begin with. All I want to know is, if AK and RS are released, will we see the steadfast translation effort for Hellman's motivation document on PMF?

I kind of already know the answer, but it would be great if someone would raise that on PMF. I of course would myself, but c'mon, I'd be banned in like two seconds.

No. It would be against their mission to falsely honor Meredith Kercher by condeming Amanda Knox. If they are released on appeal, Helmann will have betrayed Meredith Kercher and they certainly would not translate a document that betrays Meredith Kercher.

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

So I think it's pretty obvious that the tide is turning in this case. Some guilters will disagree, but let's be honest-----not that perceptive to begin with. All I want to know is, if AK and RS are released, will we see the steadfast translation effort for Hellman's motivation document on PMF?

I kind of already know the answer, but it would be great if someone would raise that on PMF. I of course would myself, but c'mon, I'd be banned in like two seconds.

It's possible that the PMF community, already split, would just quietly die off if AK and RS were acquitted. I think a lot of them would probably slink away at that point, since they'd have lost their talking point of last resort ("But a court found them guilty!").

On the other hand the PMF community might still have the momentum left to translate Hellman's decision so they can go over it with their statement analysis skills and razor-sharp confirmation bias to find proof that Hellman is a serial killer in the pay of a PR firm who totally ignored the vital mop and lamp evidence.

 

[Draca]

Could you provide a link to his verbatim testimony so we could actually know what he said as opposed to what the media said he said?

No, sorry. This information was from talking to people who were in court today. They said Toto said several times firmly that he was sure it was a DISCO bus. There was no point for the officers to try and say he may have seen a regular bus because of this.

 

[HumanityBlues]

On the other hand the PMF community might still have the momentum left to translate Hellman's decision so they can go over it with their statement analysis skills and razor-sharp confirmation bias to find proof that Hellman is a serial killer in the pay of a PR firm who totally ignored the vital mop and lamp evidence.

You know, that is a possibility I never thought of, but I can see it happening. But their main motivations---boredom, insecurity and general hatred of themselves and others (some exceptions, but for the most part)--are probably not enough to tirelessly work on translating a document that exonerates someone. Who knows though, they are a weird bunch.

Edit: I should mention that I have PMed at least one person from PMF here and they said they would be the first to raise the question of why a translation wasn't being done under such a circumstance. It would be interesting, however, if PMFers here and on the site would say on the record what they'd do under such a circumstance. I don't see that happening, but you never know.

 

[Draca]

It's possible that the PMF community, already split, would just quietly die off if AK and RS were acquitted. I think a lot of them would probably slink away at that point, since they'd have lost their talking point of last resort ("But a court found them guilty!").

Their bee hive has been disturbed though! It's been quiet in guilter land lately. They are basically in the process of trying to rebuild their hive. I predict colony colapse syndrome myself.

 

[HumanityBlues]

Their bee hive has been disturbed though! It's been quiet in guilter land lately. They are basically in the process of trying to rebuild their hive. I predict colony colapse syndrome myself.

Look at it this way. Today in court Monica Naponobdy didn't even show up to court, Hellman embarrassed the prosecution's star witness, and the report from the independent experts is not going to endorse Stefanoni. You would think that would be the topic of discussion. But no, what's important is that someone sent an angry email three years ago to the real victim in this case, the bored moderator of PMF.

 

[Chris C]

The prosecution got a head start in this case by leaking lies,now the truth is been leaked by the court appointed DNA experts and the prosecution are crying fowl,there was probably never any dna on the knife either Amanda's or Merridiths, anyone that believes storing the bra clasp in a jar of liquid happened by accident needs to have a serious chat with themselves it was done to try and cover up how they were framing Raffaele Sollecito

The other big news apart from Curatolo is that the brave Monica Napoleoni failed to show up today,if Stefanoni was unable to cover up her treachery, she is now haunted by the prospect of whether or not she can get away with destroying the tapes of her hitting Amanda Knox,now she has the same problem as Rudy after he breaks in a second story window she cannot control her bowels and was unable to risk removing her arse long enough off the toilet bowl to attend court,

To the best of my knowledge the experts aren't sequestered, they just can't release official documents like Lalli did.

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

According to this one reporter is claiming to have leaked documents showing that the independent DNA analysis experts are going to recommend chucking out the knife evidence completely.

The guilters are in total denial about it over at PMF. It's not been a good few days for them. Curatolo has fallen over, the bra clasp evidence went the way of the hard drives and the interview recording, the knife evidence likely to be thrown out entirely... I think some posters' pessimism about Hellman may have been premature.

 

[Chris C]

I said talk about the new evidence, not pretend it doesn't exist.

I have said this before, but its starting to look more and more like its going to happen. If they toss all these dna test results out of court because Stefanoni and her lab are being run by incompetent people its going to give Rudy one more reason to file for his conviction to be overturned. He is already convicted of Killing/Raping Meredith with Knox/Sollecito. He is now looking like he will get to appeal his conviction because Knox/Sollecito are innocent and the DNA lab is looking incompetent. So he will get to appeal the DNA results because he couldn't do it on appeals because of fast track trial. None of us want to see Rudy go free, but its heading that way.

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

I have said this before, but its starting to look more and more like its going to happen. If they toss all these dna test results out of court because Stefanoni and her lab are being run by incompetent people its going to give Rudy one more reason to file for his conviction to be overturned. He is already convicted of Killing/Raping Meredith with Knox/Sollecito. He is now looking like he will get to appeal his conviction because Knox/Sollecito are innocent and the DNA lab is looking incompetent. So he will get to appeal the DNA results because he couldn't do it on appeals because of fast track trial. None of us want to see Rudy go free, but its heading that way.

Ick. I really hope that doesn't happen - the bastard will be out too soon anyway - but if so it's the most compelling possible illustration of why decent people should be outraged by the behaviour of Mignini and the Perugian law enforcement community.

 

[Chris C]

Ick. I really hope that doesn't happen - the bastard will be out too soon anyway - but if so it's the most compelling possible illustration of why decent people should be outraged by the behaviour of Mignini and the Perugian law enforcement community.

Don't get me wrong there is still plenty of evidence to convict him however you are talking about Italy's Supreme Court and not the first trial and auto appeal you get. Everyone that believes Knox/Sollecito innocent, knows that Rudy was convicted on tainted evidence and now that the world is being shown this, Rudy has a chance of getting his conviction overturned. Yeah I hope it don't happen either, but i'm sure we are all seeing the sad reality of what happens when you railroad innocent people along side of guilty ones. I'm going to laugh if the prosecution calls Guede up to the stand. I seriously doubt he will finger knox and sollecito now. Acquaintances of Rudy better start moving out of Perugia. They will be getting questioned shortly to try and get Rudy's some new accomplices for that night.

Though it seems most hard core guilters still think Curatolo is telling the truth. I'm hearing the new excuses well there are witnesses that saw people wearing masks that evening and trying to compare it to how people shoot fireworks the day after new years and the 4th of july. The best news of all is we no longer have to hear the guilters talk about how Curatolo never said he saw people in mask and/or costumes. Does anyone know what time the white suits actually arrived at Meredith/Knox's apartment? The few times I have read what he said, it seems he even got that confused when compared to when he saw Knox/Sollecito.

 

[Chris C]

They should give regular updates on this page. Maybe try and get its google hits up.

http://www.perugiamurderfile.com/

 

[Dan O.]

. Does anyone know what time the white suits actually arrived at Meredith/Knox's apartment? The few times I have read what he said, it seems he even got that confused when compared to when he saw Knox/Sollecito.

In Massei [95], Monica and the 118 staff arrive at 13:30. Brocci claims to have arrived at 14:30 and started setting up the crime scene [99]. Brocci wore shoe covers and gloves so may not have been the full white suit at this time. The bunnies from Rome arrived a few hours later [91] (the time isn't given but we should see when they first shoe up on the video).

 

[RoseMontague]

In Massei [99], Brocci claims to have arrived at 14:30 and started setting up the crime scene. Brocci wore shoe covers and gloves so may not have been the full white suit at this time. The bunnies from Rome arrived a few hours later [91].

Tis brings up a major point in Curatolo's story that has not been explored. According to Frank:

Curatolo, for the accusers, remains totally reliable. Because he said to have been questioned by the Carabinieri next day, at about 1:30 pm, and to have then seen the scientific police in white suit at the cottage, at about 2 pm.

A quote from LMT in the comments seems to indicate that under questioning by Mignini, Curatolo confirmed having been asked questions from the cops the day after the murder and then having seen the "bunnies" shortly thereafter. Is this a repeat of Quintavalle, questioned and saw nothing until brought forward by a journalist?

 

[Chris_Halkides]

slow motion

Nor am I.

What almost offends me (it actually amuses me) is the amount of brain power and energy wasted on this thread.

What skin do you folks have in this game?

Darth Rotor,

None. But it is interesting to watch the wheels of the prosecution's case come off in slow motion.

 

[Dan O.]

Curatolo, for the accusers, remains totally reliable. Because he said to have been questioned by the Carabinieri next day, at about 1:30 pm, and to have then seen the scientific police in white suit at the cottage, at about 2 pm.

This is somewhat disturbing. If that time is accurate, it would indicate that the Carabinieri were actually doing something right for once. Monica arrives at the cottage at about 13:30 (actually slightly later since she didn't get off the phone with the postal police until 13:34). So, if they were talking to Curatolo at 13:30, it would have to be a different Carabinieri that was not biased by actually seeing the crime scene.

 

[Chris C]

This is somewhat disturbing. If that time is accurate, it would indicate that the Carabinieri were actually doing something right for once. Monica arrives at the cottage at about 13:30 (actually slightly later since she didn't get off the phone with the postal police until 13:34). So, if they were talking to Curatolo at 13:30, it would have to be a different Carabinieri that was not biased by actually seeing the crime scene.

That was the point i was trying to bring up, did the white suits arrive at 2pm? I mean the door was broken down sometime after 1pm. Thats pretty fast for the white suits to get there. I was under the impression they didn't get there until sometime that evening.

 

[pilot padron]

On the other hand the PMF community might still have the momentum left to translate Hellman's decision so they can go over it with their statement analysis skills and razor-sharp confirmation bias to find proof that Hellman is a serial killer in the pay of a PR firm who totally ignored the vital mop and lamp evidence.

To me , it always really reveals a lot about irrational thought processes when an argument must resort to constantly claiming conspiracy in every Italian person and their second cousins as the main reason a young American female has been unanimously convicted of a horrific murder in Perugia.

However, now we get the ultimate territorial stretch of this omnipresent conspiracy cockroach.

It has according to the latest bit of wisdom quoted above, imbedded itself so deeply in one's psychological make up that now this invisible evil veil of all encompassing voo doo conspiracy is even ridiculously prolongated to proclaim a preposterous novel prediction.

Soon, even the dreaded, derided, yet constantly carefully digested and quoted voices of reason at PMF will also eventually embrace this revered (but ever so irrational) conspiracy crutch to explain the unlikely appearance of a statistically highly improbable future outcome.

 

[Chris C]

To me , it always really reveals a lot about irrational thought processes when an argument must resort to constantly claiming conspiracy in every Italian person and their second cousins as the main reason a young American female has been unanimously convicted of a horrific murder in Perugia.

However, now we get the ultimate territorial stretch of this omnipresent conspiracy cockroach.

It has according to the latest bit of wisdom quoted above, imbedded itself so deeply in one's psychological make up that now this invisible evil veil of all encompassing voo doo conspiracy is even ridiculously prolongated to proclaim a preposterous novel prediction.

Soon, even the dreaded, derided, yet constantly carefully digested and quoted voices of reason at PMF will also eventually embrace this revered (but ever so irrational) conspiracy crutch to explain the unlikely appearance of a statistically highly improbable future outcome.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_(crime)