Ralph Nader on The Nuclear Power Nightmare'

[tyr_13]

...result in the pointless destruction of billions of dollars worth of solar cells from driving SUV's and motorhomes back and forth over them ten thousand times a day.

And even if they weren't destroyed right away, their energy production would drop to zero in days from the thin layer of dust oil and tire rubber that accumulates on every road surface in the country.

My comment was referring to the solar road surface that has shown some promise at becoming cost competitive actually doing just that. Contrary to appearances, I'm not so stupid as to believe you can just drive on standard photo voltaic cells.

And no, their energy production does not drop to zero with a thin layer of dust and even with the cars covering parts of them all day long they still work. Popular Mechanics had them in an article not too long ago.

I was specifically addressing the claim that because snow covers most things in parts of the US for a quarter (or more) of the year that makes solar not an option. Solar remains a useful supplement even in the north.

 

[tyr_13]

The real one, you really stop listening to Fox news and try it. Support for nuclear power among people concerned with global warming is rather overwhelming.

As for these forums, well less than 2% of the forum population are against nuclear power outright and I don’t know of a single person who regularly posts about global warming who opposes it for any other reason than they think renewable are preferable.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=203862

I believe the problem is that the very vocal minority who green wash their anti-human or Luddite stances confuse people into believing that they represent the wider environmental movement. The vast majority of environmental advocates I've spoken with learn and study, and thus more and more have been embracing nuclear as they find it isn't the evil they were told it was. Green Peace doesn't represent the vast majority of environmentalists, but they are what people tend to think of for example.

And there are people who are simply mistaken about wind, solar, nuclear, coal, etc, regardless of their stance on environmentalism. Although really, any person with more than two functional brain cells is for environmentalism of some type, but differ and what is needed, useful, doable, and worth it.

 

[pipelineaudio]

The real one, you really stop listening to Fox news and try it. Support for nuclear power among people concerned with global warming is rather overwhelming.

Maybe I should START watching fox news if your reality is 180 degrees out from theirs.

In my neck of the woods, the rational voices are drowned out by Naderbots/Gorebots and Greenpeace, both of whom are EXTREMELY anti nuclear

 

[lomiller]

In my neck of the woods, the rational voices are drowned out by Naderbots/Gorebots and Greenpeace, both of whom are EXTREMELY anti nuclear

Really Greenpeace is drowning out all the mainstream voice? Seriously? Because in the real world nobody pays attention to them but right wing extreemists who still see communist plots under every rock.

In the real world the only person you allude to (in derogatory language that confirmers your irrational predisposition) who is anywhere near a mainstream voice is is Al Gore who doesn’t oppose nuclear power. He does feel that renewable are a more attractive alternative that will end up winning out on their merits but there is no sensible way to categorize this stance as anti-nuclear.

 

[pipelineaudio]

Really Greenpeace is drowning out all the mainstream voice? Seriously? Because in the real world nobody pays attention to them but right wing extreemists who still see communist plots under every rock.

You have an interesting view of reality

 

[tyr_13]

Maybe I should START watching fox news if your reality is 180 degrees out from theirs.

In my neck of the woods, the rational voices are drowned out by Naderbots/Gorebots and Greenpeace, both of whom are EXTREMELY anti nuclear

So the rational people are out shouted by Greenpeace like people, and that means there are more Greenpeace type people?

Welcome to a critical thinking forum. Those people being louder does not mean those people are more representative.

 

[pipelineaudio]

Check what I actually quoted which was

"the most active voices against greenhouse gasses are usually pro-nuclear to at least some degree"

I may be biased since the ones who make the noise in hawaii ARE the nutjobs like greenpeace. It also doesn't help that I manage musician forums, but really, the ones out there being

most active

are the greenpeace types

 

[bikerdruid]

Not today you're not.

I took this pic and posted it today in another thread explaining to another forum member why roads can't be used as solar panels:

[qimg]http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c345/Kilstryke/whysolarroadscantwork.jpg[/qimg]

The reason the picture is so dark at 5:00 pm is because the sky was overcast today. How are those solar panels working out for you?

roads cannot be used for solar panels, because solar panels must be perpindicular to the sun to be effective.
this is also why they should not be used for roofing material

my solar panels are fine, thanks.
i have not needed any generator backup since january.
i use a small generator about 8 hours a week in december and january, but never need it at any other time.

 

[BenBurch]

And how many tons of batteries do you need to make that work?

 

[bikerdruid]

And how many tons of batteries do you need to make that work?

i have one large 760ah battery.

 

[qayak]

i have one large 760ah battery.

Hey, can you fill me in on what your power system is? My wife and I are looking at building an off-grid house using passive solar, solar, wind and tidal technology. We have been investigating several different building techniques as well.

(Personally, I thought my own nuclear reactor would pretty much provide everything we need but it turns out, there's a lot of red tape!)

If you are willing, you can PM me or I can give you my e-mail.

Thanks,

Ian

 

[Trakar]

Maybe I should START watching fox news if your reality is 180 degrees out from theirs.

In my neck of the woods, the rational voices are drowned out by Naderbots/Gorebots and Greenpeace, both of whom are EXTREMELY anti nuclear

We all have our own local brands of idiots to deal with, but there is nothing intrinsically wrong with well planned and designed nuclear energy from an environmental perspective.

 

[pipelineaudio]

We all have our own local brands of idiots to deal with, but there is nothing intrinsically wrong with well planned and designed nuclear energy from an environmental perspective.

I dont know why you quoted me, I am extremely pro nuclear, as are all the real environmentalists I know. My issue was that the anti-nuclear greenpeace types make the most noise and get the media attention

 

[BenBurch]

i have one large 760ah battery.

760 ah? I presume you mean a 12v battery?

That is only 9.12 KWh. Fairly small as these things go. Also is it a deep cycle battery? If not, you better not take more than about 7 KWh out of it or you risk cell collapse.

Is it a Nickel-Iron or Lead-Acid?

If the latter, how are you planning to deal with the lead acetate and electrolyte in an environmentally sound manner? You do realize that most of what we turn in as cores for battery replacement actually is sent to be "recycled" in foreign nations where the lead smelters are killing people, right?

Do you have an inverter, or all 12v appliances?

 

[Trakar]

I dont know why you quoted me, I am extremely pro nuclear, as are all the real environmentalists I know. My issue was that the anti-nuclear greenpeace types make the most noise and get the media attention

That is the media's proclivity towards presenting conflict and stirring the pot, as entertainment (to sell advertising) rather than any less exciting, but more technically accurate portrayal of reality. If we only had one KOOK on the planet, he would be the most quoted and requested pundit around. You would see his opinions counterpointing every topic that got mentioned.

Blow off the idiots, they aren't interested in facts or learning, just in the noise they can make. Though, admittedly, Hawaii seems to be a high attractor to lunacy, so it may indeed be a location issue, at least in part.

 

[ZirconBlue]

roads cannot be used for solar panels, because solar panels must be perpindicular to the sun to be effective.
this is also why they should not be used for roofing material

my solar panels are fine, thanks.

Do you have to continuously adjust their angle throughout the day to keep them perpendicular to the sun?

 

[bikerdruid]

760 ah? I presume you mean a 12v battery?

That is only 9.12 KWh. Fairly small as these things go. Also is it a deep cycle battery? If not, you better not take more than about 7 KWh out of it or you risk cell collapse.

Is it a Nickel-Iron or Lead-Acid?

If the latter, how are you planning to deal with the lead acetate and electrolyte in an environmentally sound manner? You do realize that most of what we turn in as cores for battery replacement actually is sent to be "recycled" in foreign nations where the lead smelters are killing people, right?

Do you have an inverter, or all 12v appliances?

Do you have to continuously adjust their angle throughout the day to keep them perpendicular to the sun?

the batteries are very large deep cycle lead acid.
in about 20 years, when i have to think of replacing them, they will be recycled appropriately. i am not new to this. i have lived with soalr power and batteries for over 20 years.
i invert the power for house use.

the panels have a tracking device that follows the sun.
i adjust the angle vertically every month as the sun raises and lowers.

 

[BenBurch]

... they will be recycled appropriately.
...

Thing is I don't think you can assure that.

 

[bikerdruid]

Thing is I don't think you can assure that.

batteries are recycled through our regional waste management authority.

 

[rwguinn]

batteries are recycled through our regional waste management authority.

... You do realize that most of what we turn in as cores for battery replacement actually is sent to be "recycled" in foreign nations where the lead smelters are killing people, right?

...

sigh.
oos-oom