Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Alt+F4]

The conversation lingers because people who fell for the prosections crazy story refuse to see the truth even after all the evidence used against them has been proven false.

Proven false only by Internet slueths who haven't even read the trial transcript but believe that by Googling they become experts in Italian jurisprudence and forensic science.

 

[colonelhall]

"refuse to see the truth even after all the evidence used against them has been proven false."

This is the trouble with this board. Most of the people remaining believe this to be the case, ......... but it ain't!

 

[RoseMontague]

Proven false only by Internet slueths who haven't even read the trial transcript but believe that by Googling they become experts in Italian jurisprudence and forensic science.

Have you read the trial transcripts?

You don't have to be a forensic expert to laugh til you cry over the bra clasp collection video.

 

[Alt+F4]

Have you read the trial transcripts?

Nope, but then I'm not saying I'm 100% sure in my beliefs, as mentioned before I don't think Amanda did the actual stabbing. I just don't get how anyone can be 100% sure of innocence when they haven't even read the transcript.

You don't have to be a forensic expert to laugh til you cry over the bra collection video.

But others are convinced that contamination occurred in the lab. No consensus there.

 

[RoseMontague]

Nope, but then I'm not saying I'm 100% sure in my beliefs, as mentioned before I don't think Amanda did the actual stabbing. I just don't get how anyone can be 100% sure of innocence when they haven't even read the transcript.



But others are convinced that contamination occurred in the lab. No consensus there.

If we can get you to the reasonable doubt stage I don't think there will be much concern over the 100% sure of innocence thing.

Was the bra clasp professionally handled and collected is the question even a non-forensic expert can answer with confidence, in my opinion.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Where or When

But others are convinced that contamination occurred in the lab. No consensus there.

Alt+F4,

There is a KERNal of truth in what you say. Contamination in the lab is a reasonable possibility for the knife. I lean slightly toward contamination during collection for the bra clasp. I think the the clasp should be tossed as evidence because it was handled badly and not collected right away, not because I am sure of the when, where, and how of contamination.

 

[Nightowl2548]

Also from "The Monster of Perugia":
If that's true, then Mignini's punishment should be compatible with the punishment of the Nuremberg trials.

That is way out of proportion, the question is does he seriously believe the charges or does he privately know they are BS and Amanda is innocent. If the former he should be disbarred and kicked out of his job. If the later he should do some prison time. But the founding fathers were right not to allow cruel or unusual punishment. I just don't trust the competency of the public to hand out death sentences, there are way too many idiots in this world.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

CoulsdonUK,

You asked about demonization. Alberto Stasi was arrested for the murder of his girlfriend in 2007. Some accounts said that her blood was found on the pedal of his bicycle. Mixed DNA was also found on a bottle of soap. His alibi of being on his computer did not seem to pan out. However, he opted for a fast track trial, and despite this, the judge asked for an independent review of the forensics. He was acquitted, and it was determined that his girlfriend’s DNA was on the pedal, but the source of the DNA was not determined. The mixed DNA was judged of no significance. Further computer forensics back Stasi up, despite the elastic TOD from the prosecution.

I asked Frank Sfarzo in a comment at Perugia-Shock whether Mr. Stasi had been demonized or not. He said, “Alberto Stasi? super vilified. A cold murderer, a sex addict and a perverted. 
Exactly like Paolo Onofri, Filippo Pappalardi, Raniero Busco, Sabrina Misseri, Amanda and Raffaele and all the others...
So it's not really anti-americanism the problem.” Mr, Stasi himself said, “"I'm disgusted by things that I hear about me. I stopped reading newspapers and watching the news.” So I would say that demonization of a suspect is not limited to the U.S. alone or to Italy alone. I have no strong opinion about his factual guilt or innocence, but the case seems really weak.

Here are some citations:
http://translate.google.com/transla...v=/search?q=alberto+stasi&hl=en&prmd=ivnsfdlo
http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2009/10/defensive-strategy-for-knox-and.html
http://www.newnotizie.it/2010/04/09/alberto-stasi-linnocente-di-ghiaccio-2/
http://www.xomba.com/garlasco_alberto_stasi_acquitted
http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/09/
http://www.corriere.it/cronache/09_...no_d72fdbd8-eaec-11de-9f53-00144f02aabc.shtml

Halides1

My point is a simple one, many of you describe how Raffaele and Amanda were treated by the Italian media as though it was unusual but clearly it is not given the links you and others have provided, once again I am not saying it is right but clearly it is common. Indeed, I believe most Italians know what their tabloid media is like (TV and printed media) and are far more discerning than people outside of Italy give them credit for, it’s a bit like judging American media based on the content of the National Enquirer or in the UK the Sun, Daily Mirror or favourite the Daily Mail.

The Stasi case is indeed sad and incredible but as I have said not unique in Italy or anywhere else for that matter, I believe you have researched the Duke Lacrosse Team case.

In the UK we have had cases like the Guildford Four, the Birmingham Six a UK TV presenter called Jill Dando who was shot and killed on her door step; Barry George was arrested sent to trial and convicted on a minuscule piece of evidence, his appeal was subsequently heard and he was released in 2007, I think. I am not stating the judicial process of any country is always right, but in the UK cases the judicial process resulted in convictions being overturned and in some cases the illegal actions of police officers being exposed.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

Kevin_Lowe

People did indeed subsequently read the full article you linked to, and pointed out the factual errors in John Kercher's article and the eerie similarity between the talking points he articulated and the ignorant and/or mendacious talking points we have come to expect from Harry Rag, Michael and similar pro-guilt spokespersons. However I don't see how this can possibly be seen as shifting the goalposts either, since no goalposts were established. Changing the subject isn't necessarily shifting the goalposts, especially if there were never any goalposts to shift.

You and others have made you position clear you will accept only one verdict an odd point of view given that you have no idea what is going to unfold in the appeal. My position for example is one of waiting to see what the results of the independent geneticist because their report and not your links will have a direct impact on the course of the appeal.

Finally, I believe maybe naively that there is no alternative than the judicial process that is taking place, I certainly do not subscribe to justice via the internet. I can honestly and sincerely state that I will accept whatever the verdict of the appeal will be.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

Kevin_Lowe

Well, maybe. Or you could change your approach.

This is what I will do; I will continue to post in the manner of my choosing come what may.

I recently read somewhere (no I don’t have the link) that President Obama advised someone not to take themselves too seriously. Good advice in my opinion from the leader of the free world as Americans say (if he can do it then.....).

As for the rest of your post, I note your comments.

 

[tronic]

Whats going on at PMF? Site up for sale -- comments on perugia shock indicate coup? -- some argument between "michael" and skeptical bystander?

site is *gone* -- domain up for sale --- buy it online

I would guess that Michael has argued with Skeptical Bystander re: control of the site. It's come to a head -- he took the entire site offline and now he's put it up for sale. I would guess as he has always been the IT guy (London based I think) that he owns the domain. I would think that it is Skeptical Bystander who has recruited "clander" -- in rome (speaks italian -- Skeptical Bystander speaks italian too) -- clander has been doing more and more IT work recently (site revamp etc) ... so Michael has been pushed out.
It's a battle for control -- he's pulled the plug. Now it seems he's taken the site down entirely -- it's *gone*.

 

[capealadin]

PMF is having technical problems. That is all. There is no fighting between Michael, Skep or Clander. I understand that it is disappointing for some, but there it is. PMF will be back soon, bigger and better than ever. I'm sure fairminded folks, who peruse PMF will be happy about it.

 

[Draca]

happy about it?

eh, not so much.


So do you think Toto is going down after the Disco bus witnesses testified?
What will the prosecution call upon Monica Napoleoni to testify about next week for them?

 

[Katody Matrass]

PMF is having technical problems. That is all. There is no fighting between Michael, Skep or Clander. I understand that it is disappointing for some, but there it is. PMF will be back soon, bigger and better than ever. I'm sure fairminded folks, who peruse PMF will be happy about it.

Nice to have you back, capealadin

Putting aside that little OT you brought, what do you think about the ritualistic theory of the crime that recently saw the light again? Do you think Mignini was right and it was a comic book inspired ritual slaying of a vampire? Does Amanda's involvement in satanic rituals makes her a witch? Then what kind of trial is it?

 

[HumanityBlues]

PMF is having technical problems. That is all. There is no fighting between Michael, Skep or Clander. I understand that it is disappointing for some, but there it is. PMF will be back soon, bigger and better than ever. I'm sure fairminded folks, who peruse PMF will be happy about it.

Thanks for the update. Where oh where will we be able to look at pictures of people's cats and dogs in the interim?

 

[Magister]

www.perugiamurderfile.org

 

[Kaosium]

Kaosium,

And then there is the phrase "not incompatible with," which I guess is one notch lower than "compatible." Neither one means anything unless you also know what counts as incompatible. MOO.

That puzzled me so much I actually asked Frank if there was a technical difference between the two, I was assuming there might be an actual definition based on probability, e.g. 'compatible' meant >50% and 'not incompatible' maybe >25% or something. Apparently there's no difference in definition, but the latter gets used when they don't want it to look as damning or something like that.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

That puzzled me so much I actually asked Frank if there was a technical difference between the two, I was assuming there might be an actual definition based on probability, e.g. 'compatible' meant >50% and 'not incompatible' maybe >25% or something. Apparently there's no difference in definition, but the latter gets used when they don't want it to look as damning or something like that.

Just below “not incompatible” is the latest phenomenon “internet expert” we don’t need a judicial process of a sovereign state we have our search (insert your choice) engine.

 

[capealadin]

Thanks for the welcome...but I'm not here to debate. I think the lines are pretty much drawn..and I feel each to their own.

However, I have never believed that this was a satanic ritual, or anything resembling that. Neither do I believe that the case rests on the testimony of anyone. I believe that the forensics and lies are the downfall of all three.

Nothing wrong with pictures of pets. But then, I happen to be an animal lover.

In any event, I was simply giving an update, as to the status of PMF. I have it on good authority that it will be up soon. The comments about Michael et al, and that it is up for sale, is just wishful thinking. But then, we all know about rumours, do we not?

 

[CoulsdonUK]

Thanks for the welcome...but I'm not here to debate. I think the lines are pretty much drawn..and I feel each to their own.

However, I have never believed that this was a satanic ritual, or anything resembling that. Neither do I believe that the case rests on the testimony of anyone. I believe that the forensics and lies are the downfall of all three.

Nothing wrong with pictures of pets. But then, I happen to be an animal lover.

In any event, I was simply giving an update, as to the status of PMF. I have it on good authority that it will be up soon. The comments about Michael et al, and that it is up for sale, is just wishful thinking. But then, we all know about rumours, do we not?

I am sorry I cannot simply accept any rumours unless supported by numerous internet links contradicting or preferably confirming said rumour, er do you have any link and or rumours?